Toughness/reflex and the uber-melee fighter

[DeletedUser]

isn't there a level requirement of 70 or something to do the quest to get the sword? i think thats a pretty good limitation, as its not much sooner than you can equip a precise buntline.

You need to be 57

 

[DeletedUser]

Just looking at the front page of duellist's for world 8 shows a dominance of melee weapons. Who'd have known the wild west would have been dominated by sharp machete's and foils.

 

[DeletedUser]

I haven't read this for a while and my gripe isn't with the no dodging lots of resistance build, if a player wishes to go down that route then fine, however, I feel that D. Saint has a point. Hernando's Sword may only have a little extra in the damage department than a Precise Buntline or a Sharp Cavalry Sabre it is however available at a much lower level. I mean on world 6 no-one is anywhere near being able to arm themselves with either a Precise Buntline or a Sharp Cavalry Sabre.

If that weapon is available via a certain quest sequence then Ike's army revolver or Allen's pepperbox should be.

Are you sure about that as I can see at least 1 person who can equip such a weapon.


Even if you know how to get the sword doesnt mean you will I know people have done upwards of 300 3 hour slots on transport ammo with premium and still not found it

 

[DeletedUser]

You need to be 57

no, to do the quest. cause you have to find the piece of note part 1 first, and i thought there was some other limit. but 57 was a limit for something. maybe i just can't remember it correctly. oh well.

Even if you know how to get the sword doesnt mean you will I know people have done upwards of 300 3 hour slots on transport ammo with premium and still not found it

my friend found it within 2 hrs of doing transport ammo with premium.

 

[DeletedUser]

no, to do the quest. cause you have to find the piece of note part 1 first, and i thought there was some other limit. but 57 was a limit for something. maybe i just can't remember it correctly. oh well.



my friend found it within 2 hrs of doing transport ammo with premium.

There are far more examples of people taking 100's of attempts at finding it and not doing so than actualy finding it

 

[DeletedUser]

Yes, I am an example - 100's of attempts at transporting ammo, trading with indians, selling guns to indians, evangelizing... still no part 1.

 

[DeletedUser]

There are far more examples of people taking 100's of attempts at finding it and not doing so than actualy finding it

yeah, i know. but my friends too nice to come on here and rub it in everyone's face, so im doing it for him.

 

[DeletedUser]

i have worked over 100 hours on trading guns to inians, with like 80 labor points and havent found it, although since im pure shooting it wouldnt help much just saying that its hard to find. plus you guys all know that anyone with high shooting destorys this uber build right

EDIT: i actualy have 120 labor points and its a 74 percent luck job

 

[DeletedUser]

i have worked over 100 hours on trading guns to inians, with like 80 labor points and havent found it, although since im pure shooting it wouldnt help much just saying that its hard to find. plus you guys all know that anyone with high shooting destorys this uber build right

EDIT: i actualy have 120 labor points and its a 74 percent luck job

It totaly dpends on how you build you resistance fighter as with any build you can quite easily make a variation of it that will throw alot of people

 

[DeletedUser]

i have worked over 100 hours on trading guns to inians, with like 80 labor points and havent found it, although since im pure shooting it wouldnt help much just saying that its hard to find. plus you guys all know that anyone with high shooting destorys this uber build right

EDIT: i actualy have 120 labor points and its a 74 percent luck job

It totaly dpends on how you build you resistance fighter as with any build you can quite easily make a variation of it that will throw alot of people

yeah, i have to agree with Azuk. and while hitting this build head on by countering resistance with shooting isn't the most effective way, if you can overpower their resistance enough, then that should be an reliable way to beat the resistance build. but i prefer just hitting their weaknesses. its not 100% reliable, cause there is a random factor in how often they hit you. but you can reduce that random factor with your appearance/tactics, reducing their aim, and taking advantage of the fact that the resistance dueler often has relatively low tactics/appearance.
but if the resistance dueler goes with a more even spread, and not being pure resistance, this can allow them to avoid getting beaten by overpowering tactics/appearance. but with a more even spread, its easier for the pure shooting to overpower their resistance. so its a trade off, and the build can't beat everyone.

 

[DeletedUser]

exactly kman, there are multiple effective ways to counter this build, which means its not overpowered, and definately doesnt need to be nerfed

 

[DeletedUser]

If you want to counter a build, then simply don't put your SPs into what it counters.
For example to counter a toughness/reflex build, you can put into aim/dodging/appearance/tactics/reflex/toughness. Just don't try to KO them, because you would have to have a lot of shooting/vigor to match their reflex/toughness, but you still need aim to hit, so you won't be doing a lot of damage to those builds unless you're midgrin.

 

[DeletedUser]

If you want to counter a build, then simply don't put your SPs into what it counters.
For example to counter a toughness/reflex build, you can put into aim/dodging/appearance/tactics/reflex/toughness. Just don't try to KO them, because you would have to have a lot of shooting/vigor to match their reflex/toughness, but you still need aim to hit, so you won't be doing a lot of damage to those builds unless you're midgrin.

And if your Midgrin you have next to no dodge so will get knocked out if it comes down to HP

 

[DeletedUser]

I've only just read through all 12 pages of this thread.
Every single player playing this game has the choice of where they want to distribute their Skill Points and Attribute Points.

So in-directly, nothing is unfair about this kind of build at all!
It is not the best build either out there but one which has been used a lot...

The West is about duelling! This game is not about baking muffins..

 

[DeletedUser]

I like how some people figure out very good duel settings, and others scream to fix it... as if it were broken because people use their brains, rather than tossing their points up willy-nilly, goddarn silly, shove it in the oven and expect a pie. That's like saying someone who learns how to fight intelligently should be penalized in a fight. *rolls eyes*

 

[DeletedUser]

If one build can reliably and substantially beat all other builds that's a game balance issue. Not a player skill issue.

 

[DeletedUser]

If one build can reliably and substantially beat all other builds that's a game balance issue. Not a player skill issue.

I agree. Yet this is not true of the Toughness/Reflex build. A high enough Shooting (and Vigor, though that's less likely) will be able to rip through these builds.

Saying that "The only build who can beat the best dueller is not a duelling build" makes no sense. If you indeed claim that the high resistance build is the best duelling build ever, then it's safe to assume that in the future all (succesful) duellers will go for this build. Now, in this future there exists a build that can beat all the best duellers - this must definitely be an [insert the german word for over here*] build!


*Complete with umlaud and everything...


That being said, I still believe this build to be too far on the strong side. It sort of falls outside the 'regular' rock-paper-scissors of duelling.

 

[DeletedUser]

Possibly.. It's not really proven. A high shooting character will have a *lot* less defence and health than a melee build by virtue of attribute spending. If mitigation can reduce incoming damage to negligible amounts or the not dodging bonus to aim is before appearance / tactics is taken into account then I can believe the melee build really is stronger than a shooting build.

You can't argue it from single cases though. You'd need two characters of equivalent gear and level to have many duels against each other. Perfect balance is 50/50 victories. Reasonable balance is a lot more forgiving. 90/10 is broken game mechanics.

 

[DeletedUser]

You can't argue it from single cases though. You'd need two characters of equivalent gear and level to have many duels against each other. Perfect balance is 50/50 victories. Reasonable balance is a lot more forgiving. 90/10 is broken game mechanics.

But then you are argueing it from a single build. There are many builds for duelers. This is one of them.

 

[DeletedUser]

If one build can reliably and substantially beat all other builds that's a game balance issue. Not a player skill issue.

If everyone builds that way then it becomes an even duel again. Then someone will find a counter to this build and the screaming that this type build is not fair. I just wish I would have thought of it. Now moving some points to help counter it. LOL