DeletedUser
If there is a superior build and everyone follows it then combat will be fair but it would still be a failure of game design because there is a lack of strategy and variety in the game.
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DeletedUser
Personally I think this is a red herring, a diversion from the problem of duel step-laddering.
DeletedUser
.... which is what?
DeletedUser
But my point was that it is not a superior build if everyone follows it. There is a build that can beat the high-resistance build so at some point people will start using that for duelling the masses of high-res players. At some point these might become the typical build and then people will realize that balanced duellers (like the ones that are typical today) are better... etc... etc... etc... It's still a rock-paper-scissors system, the scissors build has just changed
... My thoughts exactly.
DeletedUser
I don't think anything changed, some people who've played a lot longer than me have already stated that this build has been around from the start, obviously it is not unbalanced or it would be the most common build by now.
Step laddering, that Hellstromm mentioned, refers to 2 players colluding to get easy dueling experience by fighting each other constantly, fixing the fights so that they take turns winning and neither lose too many health points. Personally I still hope to find someone in-game that does this, because their unnaturally high dueling level will make them an excellent experience farm for legitimate duelers.
Step laddering, that Hellstromm mentioned, refers to 2 players colluding to get easy dueling experience by fighting each other constantly, fixing the fights so that they take turns winning and neither lose too many health points. Personally I still hope to find someone in-game that does this, because their unnaturally high dueling level will make them an excellent experience farm for legitimate duelers.
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DeletedUser
The problem is they'll also have an unnatural real level, and will most likely be duelling specced and equipped - so it wont be a walkover to farm them for xp.
DeletedUser
True, but I wouldn't be dueling them unless my own real level was higher, and preferably my equipment better. This is basically a cheat to improve real levels, but the disadvantage it gives is the unrealistically high dueling level.
DeletedUser
And if you KO them, you put a stop to their nefarious activities for 48 hours.
*I don't normally use the word 'nefarious', but it really seemed applicable here.*
*I don't normally use the word 'nefarious', but it really seemed applicable here.*
DeletedUser
It took me about 6 months to find note part 1.
I don't think there is a perfect build, while resist build is quite good, it's not invulnerable. I talk with some fairly good duelers and checked with them on various builds, there is no perfect build.
Also, don't forget, if you focus too much skill into dueling, it'll be harder for you to do quests. If we get more high level quests that require various high level jobs, utilizing different skills to complete, pure dueler or people who are duel skill heavy may and probably will not be able to complete those quests, perhaps missing some nice high damage weapon, who knows.
hernando's sword is nice for a simple reason that it can be used at relatively low level, in addition to the nice + reflex bonus so it's a good anti-firearm dueling weapon.
Melee duelers enjoy a somewhat advantage over firearm on offense, but firearm duelers tend to get + tactic gear for dueling, not to mention firearm duelers have way better jobs to select from, compare with melee duelers.
There is no perfect build, there are trade offs, regardless of builds.
DeletedUser
While you put all attribute points into Strength, How would you allocate skill points? 1 for Toughness & 2 for Reflex would give you balalnce but what works well?
DeletedUser
well if you did that you would have 0 aim which wouldnt work well. i would reccomend if you wanna be melee starting out from level 1 by putting ap into stength and put as many points as you can into toughness while being able to do the good exp beggining quests, then once you get picking agaves (note your are not a good dueler yet) put points into aim and reflex and not toughness anymore. after you get decent aim then youll be a good fighter, wheter you want to keep the high toughness or respec it away but keeping enough to do picking agaves is your choice, depeing on the kinda fightes in your area
DeletedUser544
I have always thought that the melee weapons fighters don't make sense as this is a west game; and they haven't introduced 'range' as a weapon statistic in duels. I should be able to shoot someone wielding a sword 6 times before they get near enough to use it on me.
I also think its complete CRAP that the help files say that toughness only affects melee damage, and reflex only affects shooting damage... when in fact they serve each other. I do agree that the "uber damage reducer" build is so overdone it is beyond annoying; w1 has so many of these players running around and none of them are good duelers (except a few pioneers who you have to give props to for using it first), the majority just happened to stumble upon (whether by blind luck or by copying one of the countless others who are using it) an easy way to beat 80% of the people they face.
it definitely seems to add another "advantage" to building a pure STR melee dueler in the west... which historically makes no sense why they would want everyone doing that
and let me address the rebuttals before they even come:
1. soldier tactics bonus has nothing to do with this; soldier is a class you choose. this is a misreporting of what the skills do (while a small subset of people somehow found out and are exploiting the lack of knowledge and the stacking of these two stats reflex and toughness)
2. any 'unfair shooting gear' must still be bought; and they typically cost alot of money (fancy coat is $9500). and there is plenty of vigor/reflex/toughness gear... PLENTY
you know, even though its not historically accurate I wouldn't even mind if the game is structured this way... buy why can't the help accurately reflect things? I don't expect them to publish the formula. but if they say "this skll affects this outcome", then thats what it should do. it shouldn't also piggy-back on this "other skill" and affect this "other outcome" that only a few people somehow know about. and yes I realize some have figured this out on their own, and congratulations to those of you who did that. but all too often in this game, I feel like there is a 'group' of well-informed individuals who always seem to have these answers before anyone else does. how does this happen I wonder?
I also think its complete CRAP that the help files say that toughness only affects melee damage, and reflex only affects shooting damage... when in fact they serve each other. I do agree that the "uber damage reducer" build is so overdone it is beyond annoying; w1 has so many of these players running around and none of them are good duelers (except a few pioneers who you have to give props to for using it first), the majority just happened to stumble upon (whether by blind luck or by copying one of the countless others who are using it) an easy way to beat 80% of the people they face.
it definitely seems to add another "advantage" to building a pure STR melee dueler in the west... which historically makes no sense why they would want everyone doing that
and let me address the rebuttals before they even come:
1. soldier tactics bonus has nothing to do with this; soldier is a class you choose. this is a misreporting of what the skills do (while a small subset of people somehow found out and are exploiting the lack of knowledge and the stacking of these two stats reflex and toughness)
2. any 'unfair shooting gear' must still be bought; and they typically cost alot of money (fancy coat is $9500). and there is plenty of vigor/reflex/toughness gear... PLENTY
you know, even though its not historically accurate I wouldn't even mind if the game is structured this way... buy why can't the help accurately reflect things? I don't expect them to publish the formula. but if they say "this skll affects this outcome", then thats what it should do. it shouldn't also piggy-back on this "other skill" and affect this "other outcome" that only a few people somehow know about. and yes I realize some have figured this out on their own, and congratulations to those of you who did that. but all too often in this game, I feel like there is a 'group' of well-informed individuals who always seem to have these answers before anyone else does. how does this happen I wonder?
DeletedUser
I was once involved in a couple of week war with a resistance dueler, when I was an aim/dodge/shooter. The other player was a few levels below me, but nothing significant, I was 52-55 they were 48-51. They get lucky about once in 5 attempts and won, but they never KO'd me (I had to head to bed afterwards mind). I never KO'd them either, but here's a hint, just leave your aim on Headshots
8 head strikes to 2 body strikes generally meant I won.
Also.. Ever see a resiliance dueler with gun? Nope. Toughness = cool. Picking Agaves, Evangelising & Robbing Graves are all worth doing for different reasons and all require that skill. Other than Rafting Wood I havent come across a decent XP job that requires reflex but I'm sure there is one.
8 head strikes to 2 body strikes generally meant I won.
Also.. Ever see a resiliance dueler with gun? Nope. Toughness = cool. Picking Agaves, Evangelising & Robbing Graves are all worth doing for different reasons and all require that skill. Other than Rafting Wood I havent come across a decent XP job that requires reflex but I'm sure there is one.
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DeletedUser
i have the top reflex on world 6 and the best exp job is firefighter which isnt an exp job.
DeletedUser
The introduction of forts will help balance out the number of players using this build. Reflex and Toughness are both useless in a fort battle, but Aim and Dodge are both useful, hence an Aim/Dodge based fighter will be able to be effective in fort battles as well.
DeletedUser544
good point actually =)
DeletedUser
its already extemely easy to beat i dont know what you guys are talking about, high shooting makes you level faster than them then get even higher shooting then hit them in head every time then they lose every time
Diggo11
Well-Known Member
This thread is so noobishly hilarious :laugh:
As gamecmdr said all you need is high shooting/vigor to cancel out their defensive abilities. You don't even need any aim and little defensive abilities!
DeletedUser
Yeh but that means you will lose against all the dodge and charisma based duelers.
DeletedUser11353
That`s the beauty of dueling, nobody is unbeatable, that is my favorite part of dueling
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