Toughness/reflex and the uber-melee fighter

[DeletedUser]

I understand this concept and thanks to everyone who's participated in this thread so far! Am I correct to assume that it would be in a duelers best interest NOT to overload one particular skill then? But try and be quite proficient in at least two or maybe three aspects of a duel against an opponent who's completely loaded in only one?

As George admits, you can overload in resistances and the only way someone will beat you is if they are so completely overloaded in Shooting that they are speced for jobs rather than dueling... So, you answer is, yes, it is in your best interest NOT to overload in one particular skill, but if you overload in two particular skills, you can beat all other builds except one particular build that is for jobs rather than fighting.

Note, overloading in Aim, Dodge and Hit Points (the only skills that won't help you for ANY jobs), won't achieve the same kind of status as overloading in Toughness and Reflex (which will give you access to jobs).

 

[DeletedUser]

Or, how about you take this case. I'm fighting someone with 96 toughness, 105 reflex and I have over 120 Shooting. Yet, my head shots do 20-25 damage.

Someone spent 201 points on resistance skills, and you are upset that it overpowers the 120 you spent on your offensive skill?
I'm sick of your whining, your aggression and your sarcasm. I will not be posting in this thread again.

 

[DeletedUser]

Someone spent 201 points on resistance skills, and you are upset that it overpowers the 120 you spent on your offensive skill?
I'm sick of your whining, your aggression and your sarcasm. I will not be posting in this thread again.

Again, you completely fail to see the point. This thread started out talking about how it is an unfair advantage that 1/2 of one type of resistance is applied to the other resistance.

So, when it comes to shooting, it's not "201 points on resistance" but about 150 worth of Shooting resistance. That's stacked up against over 120 shooting skill...and head shots do 20-25 points of damage per shot in such a situation...

You also ignore all of the other skill points spent on dueling that, even as you admit, count for crap... Dodging, counts for crap. Aim, counts for crap. Hit Points, counts for crap. According to YOU, the only way I can win in this type of situation is give up being a dueler and become an adventurer with completely over-maxed Shooting skill.

And you are STILL trying to defend this as being fair...:laugh:

Resistances are messed up and need to be re-worked.

Again, my BEST suggestion is to look at the damage formula vs. high end resistances. It should be following the law of diminishing returns, and it is not. It needs to be fixed to match every other dueling skill in the game.

 

[DeletedUser]

#1 Everyone needs to stop saying Uber.

#2 D. Saint is obviously a genius who has made a time machine and has seen the future. He is right. and we should heed his words.

 

[DeletedUser]

Quit whining, being agressive and sarcastic, Utah Johnny Montana....

 

[DeletedUser]

Every build has its ups and downs and their are several to this one but all you are doing is making the same points over and over.

There is quite a handy way of beating this that doesnt require high shooting but there you go you will have figure it out yourself

 

[DeletedUser10523]

As for the Toughness / Reflex soldier melee dueler. I have 1 of sorts on W5 and again you have to make sacrifices for ths build and whilst you wont get knocked out you arent going to win every duel

Rubbish! World 5 dueling rankings:

Rank Character name Exp won lost diff. Town
931 Ranger-Schwartz 5387 63 44 19 Forty One
932 para-xylene 5386 163 71 92 Pond2 Recruiting
933 paulgabriel 5373 69 97 -28 Romania
934 Azuk 5373 48 0 48 The Wild Bunch

Notice Azuk is 48-0 with his toughness / reflex build.

 

[DeletedUser]

Of the top 15 duelers on W1, 9 are firearms duelers. There is therefore no basis to say that melee duelers are so much better off, or that it is unbalanced (otherwise all the top duelers would have been melee duelers). I expect more or less a similar distribution between the different worlds - looks balanced to me!

 

[DeletedUser]

Rubbish! World 5 dueling rankings:

Rank Character name Exp won lost diff. Town
931 Ranger-Schwartz 5387 63 44 19 Forty One
932 para-xylene 5386 163 71 92 Pond2 Recruiting
933 paulgabriel 5373 69 97 -28 Romania
934 Azuk 5373 48 0 48 The Wild Bunch

Notice Azuk is 48-0 with his toughness / reflex build.

It isnt a pure reflex / toughness build and no I'm not going to post the skills

 

[DeletedUser]

Of the top 15 duelers on W1, 9 are firearms duelers. There is therefore no basis to say that melee duelers are so much better off, or that it is unbalanced (otherwise all the top duelers would have been melee duelers). I expect more or less a similar distribution between the different worlds - looks balanced to me!

Don't use W1 as a yardstick use them all

 

[DeletedUser]

Don't use W1 as a yardstick use them all

I'm not playing on all, therefore I cannot get the stats on all. But it does not matter if you don't have ALL the stats from all the worlds (or that the stats are not exactly 50% either) - even with the data from one world only, it is clear that all top duelers are not melee duelers, therefore the game is not unbalanced towards melee duelers. You don't need all the worlds' data to show that not all top duelers are melee duelers.

 

[DeletedUser]

I'm not playing on all, therefore I cannot get the stats on all. But it does not matter if you don't have ALL the stats from all the worlds (or that the stats are not exactly 50% either) - even with the data from one world only, it is clear that all top duelers are not melee duelers, therefore the game is not unbalanced towards melee duelers. You don't need all the worlds' data to show that not all top duelers are melee duelers.

Dont you?

You will be suprised who many of the other worlds are dominated by melee duelers

 

[DeletedUser10523]

It isnt a pure reflex / toughness build and no I'm not going to post the skills

"pure" reflex / toughness - aren't you getting into technicalities?

 

[DeletedUser]

Dont you?

You will be suprised who many of the other worlds are dominated by melee duelers

No, I don't. It is not about calculating a statistical average, but to see that there is enough variation in the top rankings to indicate that there is a healthy amount of firearm duelers in the top 15. I went to check some of the other worlds as well (1,2,3,6) - 9,4,7,5 firearm in the top 15. It means there are ample firearm top duelers out there to indicate that all duelers are not going for melee (same way that all players are not builders, adventurers, or any of those).

 

[DeletedUser]

W1 = 9 firearms 4 melee 1 no weapon (2 fire armes 1 melee) ....3 of the top 15 are cheats so it ruins the data

W2 = 11 melee 4 firearms in top 15 (2 of top 3 melee)

W3 = 8 melee 7 firearms (All of top 3 melee)

W4 = 8 melee 7 firearms (2 of top 3 melee)

W5= 8 melee 7 firearms (2 of top 3 melee)

W6= 10 melee to 5 firearms in top 15 (2 of top 3 melee)

W7= 10 melee to 5 firearms (2 of top 3 melee)


By my calaculations looking at the top 3 dulers to get rid of half the dross and alot of it is dross in the top 15 on some worlds. Melee has far more of the top rankings in a 2 to 1 ratio



And its not about ratio its about what is best and all these people that think Wyatts Buntline is going to swing things in their favour are in for a nasty shock

 

[DeletedUser]

And its not about ratio its about what is best and all these people that think Wyatts Buntline is going to swing things in their favour are in for a nasty shock

yeah, cause there will be a shiny cavalry saber as well.

also, i have a friend who is proof that the high toughness/reflex build is NOT invincible, and that high health, dodging, and aim can out beat the toughness/reflexes so called "uber" build. and no im not posting it cause then everyone would have an idea of the build of my friend. but i guarantee that high toughness/reflexes builds are not unfair. the dueling set up is fine as it is.

 

[DeletedUser]

W1 = 9 firearms 4 melee 1 no weapon (2 fire armes 1 melee) ....3 of the top 15 are cheats so it ruins the data

By my calaculations looking at the top 3 dulers to get rid of half the dross and alot of it is dross in the top 15 on some worlds. Melee has far more of the top rankings in a 2 to 1 ratio

And its not about ratio its about what is best and all these people that think Wyatts Buntline is going to swing things in their favour are in for a nasty shock

So we choose arbitrarily the top 3, because the lower ones are dross??? Which three on W1 are the cheats (if you know, why not only take them out?) I didn't realize that it is better to have sample size of 3 only - I would have expected having a slightly larger sample size would have been better to look at the variance in the data.

I didn't use the ratio, I only referred to the fact that there are enough variation - you brought up ratio and then discounted that in the next line

 

[DeletedUser]

Hi to all. I have a little question and any sound advice you could give would be appreciated. In world 3, I am almost near to a point where I can do Ambushing Stage coach with 3 extra labor points (yeah, soon at lvl 62). As I'm in the dueler class, should I pump more points to increase my labor points?Or is it still worth to develop my toughness/reflex levels, like putting AP into mobility,and SP into tough/reflex from this point onwards? Thanks for any help..

 

[DeletedUser]

I'm not playing on all, therefore I cannot get the stats on all. But it does not matter if you don't have ALL the stats from all the worlds (or that the stats are not exactly 50% either) - even with the data from one world only, it is clear that all top duelers are not melee duelers, therefore the game is not unbalanced towards melee duelers. You don't need all the worlds' data to show that not all top duelers are melee duelers.

Your logic is poor. The stats only show who has gained the most experience points dueling. There is no causal connection between having the most experience from dueling and who are the "top duelers".

A "top dueler" as I'm defining it is one that can beat other duelers.

Reasons for why someone would have a lot of experience points from dueling:

1. They have dueled a lot (doesn't mean they have a good build, just means that they have fought a lot).

2. They have picked on a lot of builders or other people they knew that they could easily win against, but they really are just a twinky...golden on the outside and soft and fluffy on the inside...

3. What is popular (like a shooting dueler) isn't necessarily what is best.

Etc...

I'm sure you can think of many other reasons. The rankings really don't tell us that much...

 

[DeletedUser]

Your logic is poor. The stats only show who has gained the most experience points dueling. There is no causal connection between having the most experience from dueling and who are the "top duelers".

A "top dueler" as I'm defining it is one that can beat other duelers.

Reasons for why someone would have a lot of experience points from dueling:

1. They have dueled a lot (doesn't mean they have a good build, just means that they have fought a lot).

2. They have picked on a lot of builders or other people they knew that they could easily win against, but they really are just a twinky...golden on the outside and soft and fluffy on the inside...

3. What is popular (like a shooting dueler) isn't necessarily what is best.

Etc...

I'm sure you can think of many other reasons. The rankings really don't tell us that much...

To give an example on w6 i havent dueled much but but have beat the number 2 ranked dueler 3 out of 3 times.

Again alot of these people with high exp basicaly pick on easy exp targets and avoid others that give a good chance of a loss.....its what people natural will do due to the way the ranking system works it needs tweaking IMO based on dueling lvl / Character and position in the dueler rankings