Ripwise
Well-Known Member
Their game, their product, their update. Call it how ever you want, its still Innogames in the header before The West title.
Duel Mot Split...
- Thread starter HelenBack
- Start date
Their game, their product, their update. Call it how ever you want, its still Innogames in the header before The West title.
HelenBack
Well-Known Member
Yes, it is their game to create... But their game would not be a success if it wasn't for the people that play it... Their customers... Paying and non-paying... The non-paying help to fill up the worlds. Well, I should use that term loosely since the "full" worlds of today are a mere shadow of what they were a few years ago. If they are losing the numbers of players, then they are obviously doing something wrong... and not listening to their customers is one of them. Another is lack of advertising... That's something that the players have helped with too... Word of mouth advertising... Bringing friends and family to the game that they loved. I don't know if that happens as much as it used to.
DeletedUser23437
This attitude is the problem with 70% of the business out there, and 100% of those that fail... customer service... when the customer feels he is not being heard or cared for, the customer goes elsewhere and the business fails... customer service means you care about the customer and what they desire, trying to make their experience as enjoyable as possible, no matter if its a restaurant, an auto repair shop, a hardware store, or even a software developer. The customer should always be put 1st as they are what keep businesses doors open, without them they close.
Yes, Inno can do what they want, but what everyone is saying, is, in order for this game they have developed to be able to maintain their customer base, it would be nice for them to actually make it feel like they care about their customers and right now, the dueling community feels like they are being driven out... at least thats how I see it
Ripwise
Well-Known Member
It seems people here got me wrong. I aint defending Inno here nor i am representing them. I dont like ZMD dueling because it is to easy, same as i despise job KOs.
This change basicly didnt do anything, i know because i have ZMD on Dakota which i made solely to see what was all the fuss about and now that i have 2.2k+ wins and 140 loses i see how easy it is and i despise it even more.
With this update once you are down to 0 motivation and even after you sleep for 8 hours motivation goes up to 7% which gives minimal amount of exp so again i dont see how this hurts 0 mot duelers because when exp dueling you really start lacking targets at duel level 400+. With 7% motivation you need 3 duels against the lowest duel level player to get minimal exp and get back to 0 motivation and with that said it would take you a lot of years to get to duel level 400.
Say whatever you want but this update didnt do nothing against ZMDs and real solution to dueling is still pending. How, what and when will that happen? I dont know, but i know i am waiting for a day when duelers will duel duelers and not bash workers.
With all that said i wont go into discussion about this anymore because i see its pointless.
This change basicly didnt do anything, i know because i have ZMD on Dakota which i made solely to see what was all the fuss about and now that i have 2.2k+ wins and 140 loses i see how easy it is and i despise it even more.
With this update once you are down to 0 motivation and even after you sleep for 8 hours motivation goes up to 7% which gives minimal amount of exp so again i dont see how this hurts 0 mot duelers because when exp dueling you really start lacking targets at duel level 400+. With 7% motivation you need 3 duels against the lowest duel level player to get minimal exp and get back to 0 motivation and with that said it would take you a lot of years to get to duel level 400.
Say whatever you want but this update didnt do nothing against ZMDs and real solution to dueling is still pending. How, what and when will that happen? I dont know, but i know i am waiting for a day when duelers will duel duelers and not bash workers.
With all that said i wont go into discussion about this anymore because i see its pointless.
Colt 44 WCF
New Member
Are we changing the game to keep those that support the GAME happy, ones that buy Nuggets
So why even have dueling motivation with NPCs..? I will do my 3 for daily's and move on to Dueling players
I guess the squeaky wheel gets the oil.... or nuggets that pay for changes
So why even have dueling motivation with NPCs..? I will do my 3 for daily's and move on to Dueling players
I guess the squeaky wheel gets the oil.... or nuggets that pay for changes
DeletedUser
Hmm, still no takers. Anyone intending to debate the change, or more importantly the solution, any further? Flog the straw men any harder and you'd mislead any neutral observer into concluding that 2014 was the start of a global pandemic, with the soul symptom of your large intestine strangely and mysteriously reconnecting with your mouth. I must confess it was mildly amusing at first, but if my palm were to get any further embedded in my forehead then I'd likely suffer five strokes. This change doesn't pose an extraordinary challenge to debunk, nor is the solution any more elaborate than the white nickel's pathetic disguise; pillage my earlier posts if you like, just spare me the effort of trolling you individually...
DeletedUser
I don't understand why people are still making a fuss about this. I mean Inno-Games already posted what they wanted to do for dueling. Check this forum out: http://forum.the-west.net/showpost.php?p=700234&postcount=2
This is nothing new. Let us continue on playing the game that we love. And for those who don't like it toughen up and either play or quit. In my mind there is no solution for this because the gods of the west have spoken, because a large amount of players on all of the worlds (every last one that is named The West) have complained enough for the developers to make their changes. I am not for this nor am I against this. Lets play the game without all of this drama.
http://forum.the-west.net/showpost.php?p=700234&postcount=2
This is nothing new. Let us continue on playing the game that we love. And for those who don't like it toughen up and either play or quit. In my mind there is no solution for this because the gods of the west have spoken, because a large amount of players on all of the worlds (every last one that is named The West) have complained enough for the developers to make their changes. I am not for this nor am I against this. Lets play the game without all of this drama.
http://forum.the-west.net/showpost.php?p=700234&postcount=2
DeletedUser
Sadly it's for most of the 0-motivation duelers, as dueling low level is not an option anymore.
For example for my toon on w6.fr which is just a zero motivation dueler, i have to quit the world, that's my only option, with +2600 duel as challenger and +2600 win and just 61 failed duel, with more than 1000 KO and I'm just level 46. What to do now? Only option is to quit.
Yes, I want to duel non-duel skill build players. While they still have their own option to KO themselves on jobs to get rid of duellers for 48 hours what's wrong with having 0 motivation duelers?
HelenBack
Well-Known Member
My question to all you anti-ZMDs out there... Why shouldn't one alliance's duelers not be allowed to duel the enemy alliance's fort fighters? You get rid of ZMDs or duelers that keep their duel level low so they are able to duel the enemy fort fighters... Then why even have duelers anymore? So they can run all over the map trying to find other duelers in their range?
Before ZM dueling really started up, those who had no alternative to regular XP dueling were always running out of targets. Some had less than 10 in the whole world that they could duel... and they would have to hope that some of them were online and duelable (not sleeping/KO'd/FFing). What fun is that? Why bother?
I've said it before and I'll say it again... This game started as a DUELING game. Why should duelers be forced to play in such a limited way? Why is there such a cry about whether or not a dueler gets XP if they duel a non-dueler? Why should it matter to them? It's not their choice!
I used to enjoy all aspects of the game... I kept my duel level low by dueling NPCs so that I could focus on Fort Battles and Quests... with the odd duel if someone needed to be smacked down. Now, I'm forced to decide between the two... because I simply do not have time to do Fort Battles and Quests and still keep my duel mot down by running all over looking for low levels to duel...
So... I've decided... I'm giving up on all other aspects of the game... And I'm going pure ZMD. All those peeps that were so upset about getting dueled a few times... Well, suck it up buttercup... Cuz I don't give a rats anymore.
:shootout:
Before ZM dueling really started up, those who had no alternative to regular XP dueling were always running out of targets. Some had less than 10 in the whole world that they could duel... and they would have to hope that some of them were online and duelable (not sleeping/KO'd/FFing). What fun is that? Why bother?
I've said it before and I'll say it again... This game started as a DUELING game. Why should duelers be forced to play in such a limited way? Why is there such a cry about whether or not a dueler gets XP if they duel a non-dueler? Why should it matter to them? It's not their choice!
I used to enjoy all aspects of the game... I kept my duel level low by dueling NPCs so that I could focus on Fort Battles and Quests... with the odd duel if someone needed to be smacked down. Now, I'm forced to decide between the two... because I simply do not have time to do Fort Battles and Quests and still keep my duel mot down by running all over looking for low levels to duel...
So... I've decided... I'm giving up on all other aspects of the game... And I'm going pure ZMD. All those peeps that were so upset about getting dueled a few times... Well, suck it up buttercup... Cuz I don't give a rats anymore.
:shootout:
DeletedUser
Helen I am ZMD on El Dorado! I am currently having no problems with this new update, the only thing I was taken back was how soon this came through!
HelenBack
Well-Known Member
If I had the time, then ya I could probably make it work... But I don't have the time. I like all aspects of the game... Fort battles, quests, dueling, being dueled... I like the variety.
The point is that they are punishing duelers for wanting to be duelers in a DUELING game... Yet the all mighty fort fighters are being put on a pedestal... No touchy!!!
That is not fair... and that is what I have a problem with.
If the people that joined are really upset about being dueled... Why did they join a game that states on it's main page... "Discover new lands and experience exciting adventures and duels! The West awaits!" Why should duelers have to be muzzled just because those who have joined and don't want to duel believe that they shouldn't be dueled either. They joined the game for their reasons and the duelers joined the game for theirs.
Duelers aren't telling them that they can't join battles unless you are only in a fort battle with other people that are your level and fort skill/experience... Everyone is allowed to join them. Why should a fort fighter be allowed to shoot at a dueler with no fort skills in a fort battle and yet the dueler can't duel the fort fighter outside of the fort battle?
Does it sound like things are equal? I don't think so...
DeletedUser
Well I don't have 2 cents so I'll give ya the whole nickel!
Inno changed the 0 motivation dueling rules to satisfy the people who were complaining about being dueled by these duelers right? Well correct me if I am wrong, but with the old method a dueler could keep their motivation down by dueling NPC's and not actual players so therefore not every one was a target. Now that you cannot do that the only way to keep your motivation low is to duel ACTUAL players. But doing so now forces players who don't want to be dueled to leave their towns (to avoid being targets, place bounties on the heads of the offender (in the hope someone collects it), get knocked out and get a 48 hour break, or just complain that they are being dueled often/unfairly. I think I have dueled more people since the update then I have in quite a while! Sorry, but as the saying goes "Don't hate the player. Hate the game." Ordinarily I'd only do my NPC duels, 2 players (for bonds), craft 3 things and call it a day. But now Inno has forced me to do multiple duels to keep my motivation low.
Well if you are in my area (or have a bounty I want) you are now a target. If you don't like it complain. Maybe Inno will see the error of their ways and change it back (or get rid of duel motivation completely!)(which would be the SMART thing to do), but until that time suck it up cupcake and I'll be seeing you!!!
Inno changed the 0 motivation dueling rules to satisfy the people who were complaining about being dueled by these duelers right? Well correct me if I am wrong, but with the old method a dueler could keep their motivation down by dueling NPC's and not actual players so therefore not every one was a target. Now that you cannot do that the only way to keep your motivation low is to duel ACTUAL players. But doing so now forces players who don't want to be dueled to leave their towns (to avoid being targets, place bounties on the heads of the offender (in the hope someone collects it), get knocked out and get a 48 hour break, or just complain that they are being dueled often/unfairly. I think I have dueled more people since the update then I have in quite a while! Sorry, but as the saying goes "Don't hate the player. Hate the game." Ordinarily I'd only do my NPC duels, 2 players (for bonds), craft 3 things and call it a day. But now Inno has forced me to do multiple duels to keep my motivation low.
Well if you are in my area (or have a bounty I want) you are now a target. If you don't like it complain. Maybe Inno will see the error of their ways and change it back (or get rid of duel motivation completely!)(which would be the SMART thing to do), but until that time suck it up cupcake and I'll be seeing you!!!
DeletedUser
This was "phase" or "stage" one I believe of their plan they outlined. There is more change to come.
Nisa
Well-Known Member
The point is that they are punishing duelers for wanting to be duelers in a DUELING game... Yet the all mighty fort fighters are being put on a pedestal... No touchy!!!
That is not fair... and that is what I have a problem with.
Does it sound like things are equal? I don't think so...
Now thats an old thing. You cant be good in everything.
Duelers can join a battle , hide behind tanks and safely snipe and duel players / ffers.Skilled Fort fighters have zero chance in dueling and you are talking about equality?
HelenBack
Well-Known Member
Yup... Another part of the plan to come may wind up having all duelers only able to shoot at each other in County 15... Duelers in a fish bowl... That sounds even more fun... NOT!
Fort Fighting tanks may not win the duel, but they will survive it... Still duelers are not telling FFers how to play their chosen path in the game... Why should FFers be free from dueling in a game that was built on... dueling!?
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DeletedUser25802
DeletedUser34194
I'm going to start by saying your right they never should have touched the motivation through NPC duels, it does nothing to solve the problems of the players being dueled by 0 mots. It really stinks for good players that have decided to duel this way and enjoy it like that. If anything eliminating the duel level would make a ton more sense.
Now to be blunt, dueling is not ruined. It is not over. It may be over for you dueling the way you are used to, but it is still every much a part of the game as it ever was.
This forum is full of players talking about the end of different aspects of the game that were changed all the way back to it's conception.
Product drop change? Traders are up in arms and trading is ruined.
Damage and skills in FF? FF is ruined.
Aim and dodge formula? ruined.
Please don't misunderstand me. Post everyday about how things were better for you before and how it shouldn't have been changed. If enough players agree with you and voice their feelings I don't doubt Inno would change it back, it wouldn't be the first time they tried a fix that bombed and got rid of it. All it takes is popular support.
But enough with the end of dueling in the west talk, ask any new player or xp dueler if they have any problems with dueling or this change and the answer is simply NO.
Also I have yet to see the thread in the forum started by fort fighters, for fort fighters, calling for the elimination of 0 mot dueling. Every fort fighter I know either job KO's or goes looking for one of you to duel KO. Why are they getting the finger point?
One last comment, I'm sorry Helen I really respect you as a player and a dueler but,
You have the choice not to sign up for a battle, if you do sign up you probably already know your outmatched in FF skills and are taking your chances. Players don't have a choice outside unless it means going townless.
Now to be blunt, dueling is not ruined. It is not over. It may be over for you dueling the way you are used to, but it is still every much a part of the game as it ever was.
This forum is full of players talking about the end of different aspects of the game that were changed all the way back to it's conception.
Product drop change? Traders are up in arms and trading is ruined.
Damage and skills in FF? FF is ruined.
Aim and dodge formula? ruined.
Please don't misunderstand me. Post everyday about how things were better for you before and how it shouldn't have been changed. If enough players agree with you and voice their feelings I don't doubt Inno would change it back, it wouldn't be the first time they tried a fix that bombed and got rid of it. All it takes is popular support.
But enough with the end of dueling in the west talk, ask any new player or xp dueler if they have any problems with dueling or this change and the answer is simply NO.
Also I have yet to see the thread in the forum started by fort fighters, for fort fighters, calling for the elimination of 0 mot dueling. Every fort fighter I know either job KO's or goes looking for one of you to duel KO. Why are they getting the finger point?
One last comment, I'm sorry Helen I really respect you as a player and a dueler but,
You have the choice not to sign up for a battle, if you do sign up you probably already know your outmatched in FF skills and are taking your chances. Players don't have a choice outside unless it means going townless.
Nisa
Well-Known Member
Fort Fighting tanks may not win the duel, but they will survive it... Still duelers are not telling FFers how to play their chosen path in the game... Why should FFers be free from dueling in a game that was built on... dueling!?
I never said FFers should be free from dueling, they already have option to stay KOed and dont need to worry about getting dueled if it bothers them. I was reffering to what you said about FFers 'being put on pedestal' and (no )equality. Pure ffers are limited what they can do in game so every build has pros and cons. However I hope dueling gets fixed.
HelenBack
Well-Known Member
Thanks Nisa... I hope dueling gets fixed in a way that works for the majority on both sides of the argument. Yes, those who do not duel have the option of staying KO'd via jobs when it suits them... And even people who are townless can join a fort battle now.
It does seem that way (FFers on a pedestal and favouritism towards them). Take a look at the items in the SHOP... There aren't any really good buffs for duelers or traders (well the work instructions are good for Traders to increase their max luck, and also can be used by Duelers/FFers so they can do jobs easier if they wish to).... There are the Dueling Mot/Energy buffs... well, those don't work for ZMDs at all... Now if they had a Duel Mot Reduction buff, that would be helpful to them. The majority are geared for FFers....
You are right tho... Every build has it's pros and cons. But I still do not believe that Duelers should be limited the way they have been. The dueling builds have basically gotten to the point where there is only one really good build... Ranged. I still like my Melee Dueler/FFer build that lets me do decently in both aspects, but I'm not going to win any awards anytime soon with that build. I chose it so that I can play the game the way I like... Have a bit of everything. I'd get bored if I only did fort battles... or only worked... Dueling is the one aspect that you never know what will really happen. You could duel someone who has just reskilled to a dueler and they knock you flat on your hiney... Or the luck just isn't with you on that day. Or you could come across someone carrying a tonne of cash that you can use towards your gear.
The thing that really has me on edge... They stated that the NPC/PVP Duel Mot Split is the FIRST STEP towards dealing with ZMDs. So... What is to come? Are all duelers going to be forced to duel within a fish bowl in County 15? I certainly do not want that to happen... The game needs variety if it is going to attract more people to play it... Someone may like FFs but not dueling... or vice versa... or they want a Farmville kinda thing and will just build their own town and live like a hermit. Whatever their choice is, it shouldn't be forced on them. That is what is happening with ZMDs.
DeletedUser30224
Zero motivation duellers, let's be honest, you do not only want allot of targets, you want to kill people not skilled in duelling. While that is not bad, it is sad in my view for a lvl 35 player to have 2500 wins and almost no loss and still claim that just because he/she likes it it should be so. He/she plays within the rules of the game, that is not the problem, the problem is that the rules of the game are changing and that particular player needs to adapt like we all need to adapt with any change that comes our way. Like others have said, no-one really cares for NPC motivation change except 0 mots which is by far the majority of players. Duelling needs to be fixed, again we all agree here, but since in Inno's point of view 2500 wins and "harrasment" of low lvl players (ending up most definitely in KO) is bad for the health of the game, they've decided to make a change. Nothing is permanent and the game has to evolve.
Not only will they not change it, they have no reason to change it. 0 mot duelling is still very much possible. How many of you 0 mots stayed at 0 and not actively duelled? 10%? Less? The point I am trying to make is that if you are duelling actively you will keep your motivation low anyhow. Maybe not at 0, but close to 0 in any case. The amount of experience you get from each daily motivation update will take you a long time to drive your Duel level significantly.
Lastly, why are you accusing other play-style as bad? Why are fort fighters suddenly the bad guys? Have you run out of arguments to support your fruitless and silly claim that duelling has been ruined? I have friends that used to be 0 mots and after I asked them what they think about the update, in general I got the same response: "meh, so what". Indeed, so what? Stop making a big deal out of nothing, it's bad for your health. It truly is useless to further debate about the update. We can talk about how to improve duelling or other aspects of the game that are so horrendously wrong, but 0 mot duelling is not one of them.
You had an easy life so far, now you will have to add a bit more effort. It is not ruined, not by a long shot, It is not the same as before and yes, your duel level will raise eventually, but you are more likely to close your account by the time your duel level will reach really high levels. (provided you stay an active 0 mot dueller).
Not only will they not change it, they have no reason to change it. 0 mot duelling is still very much possible. How many of you 0 mots stayed at 0 and not actively duelled? 10%? Less? The point I am trying to make is that if you are duelling actively you will keep your motivation low anyhow. Maybe not at 0, but close to 0 in any case. The amount of experience you get from each daily motivation update will take you a long time to drive your Duel level significantly.
Lastly, why are you accusing other play-style as bad? Why are fort fighters suddenly the bad guys? Have you run out of arguments to support your fruitless and silly claim that duelling has been ruined? I have friends that used to be 0 mots and after I asked them what they think about the update, in general I got the same response: "meh, so what". Indeed, so what? Stop making a big deal out of nothing, it's bad for your health. It truly is useless to further debate about the update. We can talk about how to improve duelling or other aspects of the game that are so horrendously wrong, but 0 mot duelling is not one of them.
You had an easy life so far, now you will have to add a bit more effort. It is not ruined, not by a long shot, It is not the same as before and yes, your duel level will raise eventually, but you are more likely to close your account by the time your duel level will reach really high levels. (provided you stay an active 0 mot dueller).
I hope that will never happen.The thing that really has me on edge... They stated that the NPC/PVP Duel Mot Split is the FIRST STEP towards dealing with ZMDs. So... What is to come? Are all duelers going to be forced to duel within a fish bowl in County 15? I certainly do not want that to happen...
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