Duel Mot Split...

DeletedUser25802

we need more new players to get this game active and when new players join here they koed every 48 hours and they end up quitting the game,

Edit: nubfutu when u coming back :hmf:


give new players a protection period of a month and in that month they cant duel or be duelled even if they're in a town? hell make it 2 months! that way they can get into the game and learn how not to be duelled (job KO).

if they dont learn in that time then its their own fault :D
 

DeletedUser

give new players a protection period of a month and in that month they cant duel or be duelled even if they're in a town? hell make it 2 months! that way they can get into the game and learn how not to be duelled (job KO).

if they dont learn in that time then its their own fault :D

Or for that matter make it so you can't duel under level 40. Plenty of learning curve time there. Those who want to not be dueled can stay low, or restart.
 

HelenBack

Well-Known Member
Ugh, depressing. Fine...


Umm, no, it isn't your only option. I can understand the confusion though, as it's not possible to count them using your fingers. Allow me to share with you a groundbreaking discovery, hand delivered to you on a platter by our world's greatest scientists: duelling NPCs is not the only way to lower your motivation. *gasp* As detailed in my first post in this thread, zero motivation duelling was invented and spread well before duel menu bandits were implemented. Granted, there is a gap in circumstances between then and now, but not an insurmountable one. So, let me rephrase that for you, "I want to be 1337, but it requires lifting my little finger now, better quit." What an utterly ridiculous ramble. There are plenty of factual flaws in this change; no doubt you'll still find it perferable to monkey dance.


Hmm, our favorite straw man again. What will it require, flashing lights, a siren and a slap from Chuck Norris to penetrate your personal bubble of ignorance? This change is more closely related to my left nipple than fort fighters, instead being wholely caused by the shortcomings of experience duelling. Nevertheless, if it gets you to shut your gob, I'll address your misnomer. (Watch this section of my argument get cherry picked hehe.) No, zero motivation duellers shouldn't be allowed to duel enemy fort fighters, because it no longer provides a tactical advantage. Even if some utter fool fails to utilize the remote sign-in functionality, health buffs fully negate any impact that can be had. In effect, this is an outdated excuse that conveniently ensures zero motivation duellers feel justified remaining in a duel level range lower than they should be.


Ahh, and alas, the true motivating force behind the drivel layering itself to form this excuse of a debate: you couldn't be damn bothered. A noble confession, but not likely to convince management of the flaw in their change.

Next you've presented us with a well dressed non sequitur. The West home page states the game contains duels, therefore all new registrants should be expected to endure the brunt of zero motivation duelling. That is not a logical conclusion; rather, new registrants should expect duel functionality to exist within the game. These players are well within reasonable bounds to be alarmed when the functionality is massively broken and abused, albeit from necessity. (Yes, if anyone else thinks it's nothing less than necessity, please refer to my earlier comments regarding cranium extraction into daylight.) Shifting blame in the direction of these inexperienced players is a fruitless exercise, particularly given how little time you allegedly have to participate in the actual game.



I'll repeat this in public: Da Twista leads a great team, and every single member deserves kudos for stepping up to assist the community. However, on this particular issue, you (like many others) have respectfully demonstrated yourself to be a njub. I'll address these sound bites as general examples applying to everyone else pushing the same flawed arguments.

In summary, your assertions completely contradict themselves. Your first paragraph is a sweeping generalisation based upon no grounds. As a result of the unfortunate series of events I outlined in my first post here, almost all duellers now utilize the zero motivation tactic. Importantly, this incorporates a significant portion of converted experience duellers, who wished to cease advancing their duelling level. To claim even a majority of zero motivation duellers are harassing low level players is a false statement based upon outdated stereotypes. It makes an absolute mockery of your third paragraph I've included here.

After likening zero motivation to boogeymen, you continue on to question why Helen is accusing other play styles as bad. (You are correct, though, her arguments are as pathetic as the white nickel himself.) It's almost a textbook example of contradiction as a logical fallacy.


Omg, hallelujah! West Jesus has succeesed, thought I was a holy ghost or something *smirk*

Is that the best you can do? Now you're doing personal attacks...? It's one thing not to agree with someone, but to start with the personal abuse that you are throwing... Nah, this isn't worth my time. Apparently I'm supposed to make time for the game rather than deal with my RL responsibilities. You are not worth the effort. I have better things to do.
 

DeletedUser36216

Come on everyone

This is a heated topic with no way to resolve the issues to everyone's satisfaction.

grenadier777 you are attacking people personally and that is not ok. Who is the mod here? how is it OK to have someone speak like this, cut people down with personal attacks and not have these comments deleted? and the abuser smacked? and yes talking like that to others is abusive.

Some people have been playing this game for years. Of course they will be passionate about changes they don't like.

Got an opinion on the subject fine, say what you need to say. Leave the personal attacks out of it.
 

DeletedUser

This is a heated topic with no way to resolve the issues to everyone's satisfaction.

grenadier777 you are attacking people personally and that is not ok. Who is the mod here? how is it OK to have someone speak like this, cut people down with personal attacks and not have these comments deleted? and the abuser smacked? and yes talking like that to others is abusive.

Some people have been playing this game for years. Of course they will be passionate about changes they don't like.

Got an opinion on the subject fine, say what you need to say. Leave the personal attacks out of it.

This is a very true statement Cbug, however I am shocked that this is only your second post. You love to talk ingame. :p
 

DeletedUser30224

Can't believe I agree with Helen for once, I had enough of this. I should know better than to try and help, you'll find me in my forum sections. I wish you all the best the world has to offer.
 

DeletedUser36011

This IS a crusade against a certain type of player, it has been toted as the first step in dealing with the ZMD class player. When will a dueler have to hit a dueler now? I just log in and kill some easy low level targets because it doesn't affect my duel level as much. SO all anyone I know who is actively dueling is doing is logging and hitting low level players now. I still knock out who I duel so I guess that helpless feeling isn't going anywhere for my targets, only difference is when I used to duel I hit as many high levels as I could thus mitigating some of the KO's. Now it's all low levels who have almost no chance of surviving!

The great news is when I KO a low level dueler now or even a mid level dueler who wanted to be ZMD, chances are they will quit! Because they can't get their motivation back down with NPC's.

Again! GOOD JOB INNO!

Again, an over reaction without thinking of the end game here. Eventually you will have a higher dl, bringing you into ranges of duelers, or those who have dueled in the past and reskilled(which really are people who are fair game). How is it that dueling actual duelers a problem, even if you have to travel 10 minutes to do it.

If it is a crusade against a certain type of player, lets start complaining about the update to the jobbing system as well shall we. I really liked the old 15s jobs, they were far better for my game play than this new 1 energy per job thing.

Things change, it is inevitable. Adjust and find a way to play as best as you can within the design of the game. This doesn't stop you dueling whatsoever. I will agree it may reduce your targets eventually. That isn't necessarily a bad thing, more of a challenge to accept, after all ZMD was damn easy. If you really need proof that it was, go look at ZMD stats and see what they look like, many have win loss ratios well over 80%.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

DeletedUser36323

I never understood why there is a separate dueling level. None of the other games I have played have anything like that. It seems to be causing a lot of problems without having any clear function or purpose. Why not just use the game levels to create a level playing field and do away with the dueling levels all together? The whole system as it exists now appears to be over complicated and flawed from the beginning.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

DeletedUser

Again, an over reaction without thinking of the end game here. Eventually you will have a higher dl, bringing you into ranges of duelers, or those who have dueled in the past and reskilled(which really are people who are fair game). How is it that dueling actual duelers a problem, even if you have to travel 10 minutes to do it.

If it is a crusade against a certain type of player, lets start complaining about the update to the jobbing system as well shall we. I really liked the old 15s jobs, they were far better for my game play than this new 1 energy per job thing.

Things change, it is inevitable. Adjust and find a way to play as best as you can within the design of the game. This doesn't stop you dueling whatsoever. I will agree it may reduce your targets eventually. That isn't necessarily a bad thing, more of a challenge to accept, after all ZMD was damn easy. If you really need proof that it was, go look at ZMD stats and see what they look like, many have win loss ratios well over 80%.

No it's not an over reaction without thinking about the end game PtyLtd. I've played this game for almost 5 years now. THE GAME IS AND WAS BASED AROUND DUELING. READ IT IN THE GAME ADVERTISEMENT DUDE. Just because you don't like it and some others don't like it doesn't make it less of a fact. If INNO wants to change the game and ruin dueling we can adjust the name to FarmerVille. Because without gun/knife fights it sure isn't the west. A win loss ratio over 80%? I've never had under 90% and that is motivation or 0 motivation dueling. I have dueled with the best of the past and the best now. Have you EVER been a dueler beyond a few here and there PtyLtd? Do you have any clue what you are talking about?

What YOU PtyLtd do not get is we don't have to play this game anymore, WE DO NOT HAVE TO SUPPORT INNO GAMES WITH OUR MONEY. There are a VERY LARGE AND SIGNIFICANT NUMBER of us who are getting ready to QUIT. I know what "I" have spent on this game. I know I have brought personal friends to this game. "IF" INNO does not start listening then they will be short a lot of players. When you are short of players you lose MONEY. And if you think this game is about anything BUT MONEY, then you are ignorant.

DO NOT think that there will always be more players, I've played multiple games that thought that and they are now extinct. INNO should see the signs with the-west. 300,000 accounts on W9 when I started in 2009. What does the newest world have here? 30,000. But no other worlds over 3000ish? This GAME is going extinct slowly but surely.

All INNO does by not listening to "ALL" the players and making realistic changes "Not destroying parts of the game" is to hasten the demise of this game.

I never understood why there is a separate dueling level. None of the other games I have played have anything like that. It seems to be causing a lot of problems without having any clear function or purpose. Why not just use the game levels to create a level playing field and do away with the dueling levels all together? The whole system as it exists now appears to be over complicated and flawed from the beginning.

All they have to do to fix this entire issue is remove dueling levels and make dueling count as xp. Prolific duelers would level so fast they wouldn't be able to haunt anyone to much. You can even keep motivation and cause dueling skill penalties every 10% it drops or so. With this you can set a limited amount of duelable levels either direction based off your REAL level. It is so simple it just blows my mind they want to stick to this silly outdated even stupid method of controlling dueling.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

DeletedUser8627

<sarcasm>Well that's it, I cannot get my way, people won't listen to me, I'm having a hard time dealing with this so I quit</sarcasm>

Just because the board is overwhelmed with ZMD issues, doesn't mean it's a true representation of the whole player base. In fact, only the complainants have come here which is what, about 15 players?

But I can tell you this now, throwing the 'I quit' around like it was a ball you're throwing to a dog when playing fetch, isn't going to make anyone budge. Quite frankly, I laughed when I saw so many balls being thrown around in this thread. Same as when version 2.0 was released, same as when other feature adjustments were made, heck, there were even complaints about the NPC duelling system when it was released.

But at the end of the day, your feedback doesn't fall onto deaf ears. It is read by the powers much higher than ourselves. Best we conduct ourselves in a civil manner instead of tossing insults and flames around - that will just cause me to lock this thread up and you'll have to try and find another way to air your opinions. Beta forums sound good but they run under similar rules.

Inno has shown time and time again that their overall picture is only presented to the players over a number of updates. In this case, this is only the first change that was made, give it a chance while you are clenching your fists and hitting the wall. I'm busy gathering more information about the changes that have already been made as well as what we will expect in the future. Duelling was presented on the roapmap and there are a lot of internal discussions about this very feature. I do believe when Joony posted on the beta forums about ZMD, he could have used better wording as that is not the intention of the company. In other words, I do not think he meant to portray ZMD in a bad light but rather indicate that there were some dramatic changes that are going to take place with regards to our duelling system.
 

DeletedUser35120

Think most people will hate me and red rep me after this, but to be true.. why are the ZMD's moaning? Is it because:-

1) They will be running out of targets?
2) They can't duel defenseless non-duelers who want to work, rather than getting KO'ed every 48hrs.

If your answer is 1, keep it in mind that other ZMDs are affected too. Their dueling level keeps on increasing, as well as yours. YOU WILL NEVER RUN OUT OF TARGETS as long as the world and those duelers are alive.

If your answer is 2, my suggestion would be to become man enough to duel real duelers. Of course..if you want some challenge, rather than picking on easy targets and bragging about 10000 wins or 2000 Ko's.
 

Pankreas PorFavor

Well-Known Member
Think most people will hate me and red rep me after this, but to be true.. why are the ZMD's moaning? Is it because:-

1) They will be running out of targets?
2) They can't duel defenseless non-duelers who want to work, rather than getting KO'ed every 48hrs.

If your answer is 1, keep it in mind that other ZMDs are affected too. Their dueling level keeps on increasing, as well as yours. YOU WILL NEVER RUN OUT OF TARGETS as long as the world and those duelers are alive.

If your answer is 2, my suggestion would be to become man enough to duel real duelers. Of course..if you want some challenge, rather than picking on easy targets and bragging about 10000 wins or 2000 Ko's.


so, obviously, people who are skilled for duels should only attack other players skilled for duels, and nobody else. that's the only fair thing to do. ok.
and maybe alliances that are strong should fall apart and not attack forts that are owned by weaker alliances.
maybe pure traders should give away stuff they find when leading a trading office.
and maybe we should all just hold hands and sing?

it is a role playing game! and there is this one world where I play the role of a bandit. a dirty, smelly, ugly, mean man that comes to your town and shoots you in the face and takes your money. a man who's face is in the sheriff's office of every town between Missisippi and Pacific ocean. a bandit, a criminal. wanted dead. you know, the man who is a CHALLENGE for you to stay alive when you get out of your bed to pick berries or tend pigs. something you should worry about, something you should count on. something that makes this game a bit more than just opening reports to see what you found during work.

you want to give duellers a challenge? what do you think, who is collecting all those bounties put on a dueller's head? builders and traders? no, it's other duellers. there is enough challenge out there for us, and Inno just gave us another one - keeping a reasonable amount of targets. well, I am doing it by killing weak players to keep my motivation low before going after those who are going to give me a real run for my money. that's what you wish, that's what you'll get. instead of going after 5, 6, 7, 8 bounties per day, I will try one or two before runing out of HP and energy. because I don't want to risk a KO where I will have to watch for 2 days how my motivation rises and I can't do anything about it.

this is a game based on the WILD west. they should add more content like this to make it more challenging for everyone, not just duellers. but they decided to make it easier for some... ok, their choice, they are in the position to make it.
but dear Inno, if you want to separate those that want to duel and those that don't - just do that already! put that checkbox somewhere in the options, or just throw away dueling completely. if you don't do that, we will always have those who can duel and those who can't in the same pool, and you know who will get drowned and then whine about it.
 

DeletedUser36011

No it's not an over reaction without thinking about the end game PtyLtd. I've played this game for almost 5 years now. THE GAME IS AND WAS BASED AROUND DUELING. READ IT IN THE GAME ADVERTISEMENT DUDE. Just because you don't like it and some others don't like it doesn't make it less of a fact. If INNO wants to change the game and ruin dueling we can adjust the name to FarmerVille. Because without gun/knife fights it sure isn't the west. A win loss ratio over 80%? I've never had under 90% and that is motivation or 0 motivation dueling. I have dueled with the best of the past and the best now. Have you EVER been a dueler beyond a few here and there PtyLtd? Do you have any clue what you are talking about?

What YOU PtyLtd do not get is we don't have to play this game anymore, WE DO NOT HAVE TO SUPPORT INNO GAMES WITH OUR MONEY. There are a VERY LARGE AND SIGNIFICANT NUMBER of us who are getting ready to QUIT. I know what "I" have spent on this game. I know I have brought personal friends to this game. "IF" INNO does not start listening then they will be short a lot of players. When you are short of players you lose MONEY. And if you think this game is about anything BUT MONEY, then you are ignorant.

DO NOT think that there will always be more players, I've played multiple games that thought that and they are now extinct. INNO should see the signs with the-west. 300,000 accounts on W9 when I started in 2009. What does the newest world have here? 30,000. But no other worlds over 3000ish? This GAME is going extinct slowly but surely.

All INNO does by not listening to "ALL" the players and making realistic changes "Not destroying parts of the game" is to hasten the demise of this game.



All they have to do to fix this entire issue is remove dueling levels and make dueling count as xp. Prolific duelers would level so fast they wouldn't be able to haunt anyone to much. You can even keep motivation and cause dueling skill penalties every 10% it drops or so. With this you can set a limited amount of duelable levels either direction based off your REAL level. It is so simple it just blows my mind they want to stick to this silly outdated even stupid method of controlling dueling.

Now why are we going personal? To ask questions about my game and how I have played is pointless, just do your research and you would find out enough instead of coming out with heated arguments against a player that are completely baseless.

It is about duelers dueling duelers. You speak of Farmerville, well you are wanting it to be like that because you are wanting to be too lazy to have to walk that little bit further. ZMD is not a challenge, not one bit. It is one of the easiest ways to play the game, so you can play Farmerville in that respect if you wish.

This update does not stop you dueling, explain to us how it does stop you from dueling(I repeat stop, not partially limit) and then you may have a good start to state that without knife/gunfights it isn't The Wild Wild West.

Think most people will hate me and red rep me after this, but to be true.. why are the ZMD's moaning? Is it because:-

1) They will be running out of targets?
2) They can't duel defenseless non-duelers who want to work, rather than getting KO'ed every 48hrs.

If your answer is 1, keep it in mind that other ZMDs are affected too. Their dueling level keeps on increasing, as well as yours. YOU WILL NEVER RUN OUT OF TARGETS as long as the world and those duelers are alive.

If your answer is 2, my suggestion would be to become man enough to duel real duelers. Of course..if you want some challenge, rather than picking on easy targets and bragging about 10000 wins or 2000 Ko's.

Anny hits the nail exactly on the head again in a nice short simple post. I don't know why this continually needs to be explained.
 

DeletedUser36323

My new profile page:

Now we have to duel real people instead of NPC's.
Then duel twice as much to keep
our dueling motivation down.
They said this would lead to a more balanced game.


Feel free to enjoy the new balance :D

My apologies to any of you poor schmucks
living near my neighborhood.

Innogames is too much like the US Government...
It is time to duck and run when they say:
Hello, I am here to help you...



 
Last edited by a moderator:

DeletedUser35120

so, obviously, people who are skilled for duels should only attack other players skilled for duels, and nobody else.

Yes exactly. What ZMDs have been doing so far is killing dogs unarmed. Not dueling. Battles takes place at the battlefield. Not at your local streets. Armymen of your country do not act as terrorists and they do not and kill your rival countrymen, they fight against the soldiers of that country instead. And that has been the way for 200 years of civilisation on Earth. Nothing that you should be surprised about.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Pankreas PorFavor

Well-Known Member
Yes exactly. What ZMDs have been doing so far is killing dogs unarmed. Not dueling. Battles takes place at the battlefield. Not at your local streets. Armymen of your country do not act as terrorists and they do not and kill your rival countrymen, they fight against the soldiers of that country instead. And that has been the way for 200 years of civilisation on Earth. Nothing that you should be surprised about.

LOL! you really need to turn on the news or open the newspapers every now and then.
and even if all that was true, this still doesn't change the fact that this is a ROLE playing GAME. game designers gave us the possibility to play the role of a bandit, and now that some people have invested years into building that type of character Inno is on a mission to take it away.

btw. good job on not replying to anything else I wrote. I guess that's because you agree?
 

Ripwise

Well-Known Member
ZMD is the easiest way to play this game and get hell of a lot back for the easiest thing they do, that is the fact. While this update did nothing to ZMD but even pushed worker pain even more because those lower lvl people will get hurt, AGAIN.

Complaining, explaining and whining coming from those ZMDs is unnatural, unproductive and even pointless.

Go and "duel" those poor workers but in my eyes and in eyes of many you will just be bullies and nothing justifies that.

Last what i want to post is this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dueling

Quote from the text i want to point out is: The duel was based on a code of honour.

ZMDs dont have any honour, period!
 

DeletedUser36323

:D I grew up here in the Western US, been here all my life, I doubt any of you could recognize a cowboy if he came up and kicked you square in the pants... which would be VERY likely to happen if they had to listen to all you crybaby whiners all the time. This is supposed to be an "Old West" role playing game based on that heritage. In reality it was a often brutal and savage place to live. Gunfighters, outlaws and bandits were very real and "might made right." The old saying that "God made man, but Samuel Colt made them equal." originated right here.

Reality is that people in Arizona still carry guns, no license or permit required, just put it in your pocket or holster. I carry one every day, and if you see some old lady shopping and she sets her purse on the counter with a "clunk" you dont have to wonder why. Outside of the border war with the smugglers and drug cartels, live muggers are few and far between.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

DeletedUser35120

Last what i want to post is this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dueling

Quote from the text i want to point out is: The duel was based on a code of honour.

Yes, exactly. Else, The West Game page would have been like this

nodfud.png


Rather than being..

rapag2.png
 

HelenBack

Well-Known Member
Last what i want to post is this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dueling

Quote from the text i want to point out is: The duel was based on a code of honour.

So according to that link, a duel is a prearranged agreement... So, what you are saying is that we should be arranging a time and place for a duel? Start taking appointments... "Let me see, I have a duel scheduled for noon already, how about 12:15 if I survive?" Is that not against the West Rules? You know... PUSHING. You aren't suggesting we do that, are you?

And since you are talking about honour... Where is the honour in a big alliance taking every last fort from a smaller one? Or the honour of doing multiple battles just to get an easy win while the defense is scattered? What about people that charge a tonne of money for items on the Market? Is there any honour in that? The rich get richer, the strong will take over the weak, and a dueler will win a duel with a non-dueler... Or hey, sometimes the non-dueler lucks out and wins... That happens too.

Some worlds have worked out agreements between main alliances about multis... And sometimes, just a request to leave them alone (stated nicely, not whining) will get a dueler to avoid someone. Not always, just saying if they have been dueling someone daily, maybe it's just because your town is near theirs.

There are some ZMDs that do prey on the weak... I've never said there weren't any. Those I would describe more as outlaws... Which the old West was full of. There still may be honour amongst thieves... They tend to stay in the same towns to help each other out.

All this update has done is made the other (not-so evil) ZMDs that would normally use NPCs to reduce their duel mot so they could enjoy other aspects of the game... start to duel the low levels to reduce their duel mot. So this update has only made the situation worse, not better. Those who wanted to keep their duel levels low for a reason other than picking on the weak now have no choice but to do what their evil counterparts have been doing.

Those that are saying if everyone's duel levels increase then we will still have more targets... Back before the ZMDs started, people didn't have any option but to let their duel levels increase... and they ran out of targets. I think the worse case (that I know of) was a max of 6 in the whole world... Spread out all over the map (which was larger back then) and that's with larger world populations! If that can happen then... With everyone just dueling as usual in a larger world population... What will it be like now with the world populations being so low?

Having to run all over the map for a few targets that may be duelable (not KO'd/sleeping/fort battles)... Would kinda be like only being allowed to do one or two fort battles per week... at opposite ends of the map. If all you did was fort battles, how bored would you be?
:rolleyes:

I still say that the duel levels should be forgotten... Let the Duel XP only have to do with ranking... And have people only able to duel within 10-20 (or whatever number) above and below their regular level. That would give duelers more targets... which means that they could spread their duels out across many people instead of targetting the same people over and over. Well, except for the really lazy Duelers who can just sit in their town and duel whoever they want within their radius. I'm surprised they haven't been the target of complaints.
 
Top