Duel Mot Split...

[DeletedUser]

Well yet another change to make dueling harder, i shouldn't be surprised. The game over my past 4 years has gone more and more to cater to the fort fighters, mostly because they cry the loudest. This is it for me I will be moving on! it WAS fun, now its not you have finally forced me out! Later all, thanks for nothing Inno!

 

[Diminished Fifth]

But many players do have a problem with with being duelled constantly.

Maybe they should learn to play the games several variations, including dueling. Look at my points, and at my achievements. I take it you think I got all of those just by dueling people who didn't want to be dueled?

I'm not in agreement or disagreement of this adjustment, I'm neutral. Perhaps I'm concerned about the fact that players got along just fine before NPC duelling was available and now that it's back, there are numerous complaints about it.

Because of all the other changes. Now, if I want to duel effectively, I can do nothing else. Before this stupid change, I was very much enjoying myself doing quests, and earning the dailies. And, when I acquired a bounty, some of the greatest fun I've had in this game is playing hide-n-seek with people trying to get that bounty.

Now, all of that is done.

What this change is, is like having a one story building, that a 10 foot ladder is sufficient to allow you to paint the whole building. Then, you add another story to the building, and still expect it to be painted with a 10 foot ladder.

It ain't going to work.

I'll just go find another game. Anybody who wants to help try to find another game, contact me privately, and we can brainstorm.

 

[DeletedUser]

So where is my free potions to reskill? Or do only fort fighters get those when they tweak their formula. Ruin Dueling, no potions?

Also, please let me know if it is safe to reskill to pure swimmer? Or are they going to target that next.

This. Where's the potion or quest which allows us to remove our dueling skills?

 

[DeletedUser34194]

I welcome this change. I have 0 mot dueler and xp dueler and know the difference. If you want to bash workers do it trough activity, if not, then play with big boys.

I see red rep coming

I totally agree. I had a 0 mot dueler that I affectionately referred to as my A**hole dueler because that's what it was, a toon built to destroy weaker toons for money, revenge and the fun of it. Honestly I got bored with it though and deleted it. There wasn't any challenge.

and then I have an xp dueler that for the last 3 years I have used to challenge myself against other players I have considered great duelers and in all that time I have never run out of targets, just moved on to the next ones. Sometimes you need to travel a little farther but personally I enjoy it much more.

So where is my free potions to reskill? Or do only fort fighters get those when they tweak their formula. Ruin Dueling, no potions?

Also, please let me know if it is safe to reskill to pure swimmer? Or are they going to target that next.

I think offering a reskill potion would definitely be a nice gesture to soothe the hurt, but sorry this is not like the Fort fighting skill change. Skills needed for dueling have not changed after all.

Just my feelings on the matter.

 

[DeletedUser]

i don't post on here, but, this change has me doing just that
iv'e been here for a long time started on w9 back in 08-09 whenever it was, started out as adventurer just because i didn't know what to expect, found out it was a duelling game and buit my character to combat the so called dueller,
over the years i have had fun then moved my toon to w1 because there is no points buying there.
that said i also have/had toons on other worlds (4 at present) becuse i wanted to explor other aspects of the game, call me selfish but duelling has always been part of the game.
now it seems like it is to be a side line, why have 14+ worlds if you don't want the core of your players to explore said aspects?
i mean we had been told over a year ago now that worlds 2-10 would be closed and we needed to migrate to another before it happened.. feel a little cheated i moved my main char to w1 and they are still open??.
anyway out of the 4 characters i have 3 use nuggets, 2 were 0 mot duellers exploring both melee and shooting builds, call them nugget spending test beds if you like
but i am sorry to say i just don't have the time now to duel for a couple of hours chasing targets to keep the 0 mot down just to continue testing all the changes that keep comming in with each update
bottom line, less people on more worlds means less income for the game and it's owners.
the other thing about the update was it was just thrust upon us, no questions, no poll, no debate. but hey we wouldn't want to upset the community would we?

oh man!
case study: just logged into w12, 0 mot dueller, not got alot of time to be online, nearest player to duel 34 mins with fastest horse equipped + 10 mins for the duel, win or loose i care not anymore and my motivation is at 6%
guessing it will only come down 2% so still got 2 duells to find and been online for a total of 44 mins so far

NOT HAPPENING.. rl will not allow me.. to coin a phrase "GAME OVER"

 

[HelenBack]

I'm sure you're mistaken if you think 90% of the playerbase is playing this game just for the duelling aspect.

Actually I think that was in reference to all the people that used to play the West a few years ago... Before forts were introduced.

Perhaps it's time for you to explore other adventures within the game now and use the features provided to you as they were initially intended. The overall game design does not target one feature for players to utilize, there are an assortment of jobs to do. To a degree, the whole skill system was designed to cater for all the features. And I'm well aware that some players only duel in this game.

I duel... I go to battles... I do quests... I huggle. I have founded towns and built them into communities of great people that like to help each other... I've led battles... I've led alliances... I have already explored all the adventures within the game... Yes, I was even a worker... I helped build many towns. You know what I loved about this game? The diversity... I'm a Jill of all trades. I like having the CHOICE of going dueling... or to a battle... or even working a mindless job for a quest or product to do crafting. What helps me maintain the balance of my game? Being able to duel NPCs to keep my duel mot down so if I get attacked by some noob that loses, my duel mot won't increase. Then I can focus on going to battles and finishing quests and all the aspects of the game. Lately, I only have a limited amount of time to really play the game.

Now... If I want to keep my duel mot down like I have been doing for years... I now have to go hunt low XP victims. In other words... I have to choose Dueling OR Fort Fighting/Questing... Because I don't have time/energy to waste hunting for victims to lower my mot AND go to battles/quest. Period. If we still had the player numbers that we had years ago... Then ya... Of course. I could easily find a few peeps to duel without targetting the same peeps over and over again.... Ya... I'm a ZMD that actually tries not to duel the same peeps over and over again... Yes... I'm evil... I must be destroyed.

Understandable that this change has upset a small portion of the duelling community but these players got along just fine before the NPC duelling feature came to be. Now that this option has basically reverted back to what it was before, it's a problem.

Way back before NPCs... How many players were playing the game? Max mentioned 300k and I think that's about right. How many are there now? And no I don't think it's the 17 million players that Inno is boasting on the front page... Maybe if they just keep a tally of all the players that have come and gone... then it may be right. There used to be a page that listed all the worlds and their populations... I don't know where that went. It also used to say what each world had for population when you went to logon too... Now it just says "Low/Moderate/Highly Populated".

Many of the complaints laid down in this thread is about targets and the lack of. Hence why some duelers find it better to be a 0% motivation dueler. Sure, but not everyone enjoys constantly being attacked by duellers, we get more complaints from players being duelled than the duellers themselves. Crybabies? Maybe so, but some duellers have taken duelling a little too far when it comes to abusing other players.

I know there are some ZMD that do that... And that's why they do that. They do it for the reaction... They do it for the whiny "Fan Mail". But that does not mean that ALL ZMDs do that... Inno is punishing the whole ZMD group for a few that are causing the main issues. Also, it isn't only ZMDs that can repeatedly duel someone over and over and over again... I know non-dueling peeps that are being farmed for XP. Why aren't the XP duelers having their hands slapped? Because ZMDs don't get any XP? What is the difference?????

At the end of the day, 0% motivation duelling wasn't removed from the game, it was adjusted. You can still duel at 0% motivation, it will just cost a little extra effort.

At the expense of being forced to give up all other aspects of the game... Or having no REAL life.

Imagine getting KO'd as a zero mot dueler, having to watch your PvP duel motivation increasing for 48 hours without being able to counter it.

Already got KO'd by a job in Beta... My duel mot is already over 20%... from zero... And I still have to wait.

0 mot for most of us is way of playing that actually enables us to keep our options in the game opened for future. Just because some portion of 0 mots give you grey hair you don't have to kill it for all of us.

Exactly... There are many different types of ZMDs... Not all are out to victimize. Some just want to keep a larger amount of targets available... Some want to be able to bring down the HP of the enemy fort fighters... There are many shades of grey.

Several suggestions how to solve it were made, here are some more:
1. open non duelling world for sissies. I'll go out on the limb and i'll use "F" word for it (which accidentally coincides with current world naming convention" - just call it Farmville. While at it please open "Fortless" world too
2. besides 48h protection those KOed could get additional protection from player that actually KOed them. week, two weeks maybe. make it a month for all i care, but this should be a good step toward solving some of abuse from duellers you mentioned

I've asked to create a Farmville type world too... Let the non-duelers go there and plant their crops. Leave the real West to those who are willing to explore all aspects of the game... Yes, being KO'd is one of those aspects. If you're getting dueled repeatedly, you can call in some friends to take care of the problem... Or just bounty the offender. Someone will take them down.

Oh don't get me wrong, I'm not against 0% motivation duelling, it's a clever tactic in the game to keep your target numbers up. I never had a problem with that.

But many players do have a problem with with being duelled constantly. And due to this many solutions were considered and entertained. I'm not the one that makes these decisions, decisions are made from a number of aspects being this from community feedback to new features that will appear in the game at a later stage. Usually small preparations like these are made for bigger features coming in later on.

I'm not in agreement or disagreement of this adjustment, I'm neutral. Perhaps I'm concerned about the fact that players got along just fine before NPC duelling was available and now that it's back, there are numerous complaints about it.

Thanks DT... I know that you have to be the "target" of most of the abuse here... You have to deal with the whiners and the whiners whining about the whiners. It's a thankless job... So thank you for trying to remain as neutral as possible.

That is what scares me tho... This is what they consider THE FIRST STEP towards the fight against the ZMD threat. This first step is a whopper. I don't think I want to be around for the next one.

In reply to Helen Back's comment about player numbers... I remember when there were 7 worlds with over 300,000 people playing. Back then, towns were filled with passionate people. It was great to go into a town and duel everyone from there. Would cause a tonne of trouble.

Thanks Max... that sounds about right. And yes, I miss those days......

The funniest thing for me to acknowledge, is no matter how many changes... most people eventually cotton on... and end up all doing the same thing and having very similar builds. Much like cockroaches, we all adapt to our new environment.

I wish I had the time to adapt... But I don't. I'm sad to say it but I won't have time to play this game anymore... Not the way I want to play... I like my variety. I don't want to be a mindless lemming... or click monkey... or robot. I want to be me... To play the game the way I like to.

Lastly, I think fort fighters are the problem... and would like to see them being KO'd for 48 hours from any fort fights when their health goes down to zero while in a battle. If they have job KO'd... or been duel KO'd.. this should also stop them from going to a fort fight. That would get them squealing... being treated just like a dueler. Imagine that!!

Oh... Ya! That would be a treat! That would really get them ticked! They'd lose all their precious forts! "Oh noooooo! Don't take our fort battles away from us! That wouldn't be right! We can't play the game the way we want anymore! Booo hooo!! Oh but don't let those ZMDs duel us! They are mean and shouldn't be allowed to duel us! No that's not right! But let us gorge ourselves on HP skills! You can't take those away from us! We're fort fighters! We should be put on a pedestal and admired from afar! NO TOUCHY!!!"
:laugh:

Regardless of your attitude you can't deny that duelers are treated as a problem to this game. (can you?!) Continously being kicked and stepped on.
And thats basicly why we are complaining.

Agreed... This game started as a DUELING GAME... When I started playing, there were NO forts... People built up their towns... Got hit by duelers... Really got camped because back then duelers could just go to a town and duel every person in the town regardless of how far away from the town they were. Oh... And there was no cooldown like now where you can still be dueled after you have dueled someone... Duelers could duel someone and sleep... and could not be dueled. To get rid of a camper... You had to become a camper yourself.

I'd love to see the main whiners who are upset about being dueled constantly have to deal with the REAL Campers like we had back then. Today's "campers" are a pep squad compared to then!
:laugh:

In my opinion you have no valid, well thought reason to be so displeased. The game is changing, like it or not, any change they introduce upsets someone, there are no two ways about it. Out of all the population only a part are duellers at heart and only a slice of that part are 0 mot duellers out of which only a sliver find the update catastrophic.

If you are not a ZMD (which is YOUR choice), then you may not see the reasons as clearly as we do. What if they decided to cap your XP duels so you no longer could compete for the "top dueler" award? If you have 100 "Number 1 Duelers", doesn't that kinda cheapen the way you play your game? Why keep playing? You get to share the top spot with an ever growing number of "Number 1 Duelers"... Oooh... the excitement! I wonder when we will get to 1000 "Number 1 Duelers?

You want to play for XP... That's great! That is YOUR choice. MY choice is to be a ZMD. The reasons why I want to be a ZMD doesn't matter... It's MY choice. And no, it's not to "hide" from you "real" duelers...

While I would very much like to see the removal of duel level, I know that it has been introduced to protect non-duellers to a degree. So while my selfish self would rejoice if that will happen, I can see the situation from a different point of view.

That was actually one of my suggestions... People have issues with players a lot higher then them being able to duel them. Getting rid of duel levels and allowing people to duel within 10-20 regular levels above and below their own level makes more sense to me. And ya... Then I may even get a chance to cross swords with one of you "real duelers".


If the dueling level was removed, no one would have a reason to be a ZMD. There would be a lot of targets available... People could still duel the enemy fort fighters... It makes sense.

Well yet another change to make dueling harder, i shouldn't be surprised. The game over my past 4 years has gone more and more to cater to the fort fighters, mostly because they cry the loudest. This is it for me I will be moving on! it WAS fun, now its not you have finally forced me out! Later all, thanks for nothing Inno!

Sorry to see you go... But before you throw in the towel... Let's wait to see if Inno responds to the community regarding this "update".

Because of all the other changes. Now, if I want to duel effectively, I can do nothing else. Before this stupid change, I was very much enjoying myself doing quests, and earning the dailies. And, when I acquired a bounty, some of the greatest fun I've had in this game is playing hide-n-seek with people trying to get that bounty.

Been there... that is a lot of fun! I had a bounty for over $100k at one point... I had everyone after me... Including allies! lol
:laugh:

I think offering a reskill potion would definitely be a nice gesture to soothe the hurt, but sorry this is not like the Fort fighting skill change. Skills needed for dueling have not changed after all.

Not sure if that will help... Duelers may not want to become fort fighters or questers. They joined a Dueling game for a reason... and it wasn't to pick cotton.

 

[DeletedUser]

It's certainly not that difficult is it? If there were no 0% duellers in this game, everyone's duel XP will rise together keeping you in range to duel other duellers. Unless you prefer hitting players that prefer not to duel in this game? These are the only targets you would potentially lose.

But it's certainly not much of a change from when there were no NPCs to duel in the game - before this feature was introduced. Once you have 0% mot, I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard to keep it there.

DT while I respect you, you have this thought in your head that just won't go away, and it's wrong. You don't duel enough to know this obviously.

The dueling level system/motivation was designed in a different game when we had tens of thousands even hundreds of thousands of accounts per world. It was designed when a base level 60 with a dueling level 120 dueled vs a (TOP) base level 99 with a dueling level of 130. It wasn't designed for 2000 accounts per world and a level 60 with a Dlvl of 135 dueling a recently converted base level 150 with a dlvl of 150.

On top of this when the system was designed you did not have to travel to location to duel someone. You dueled them from their town no matter where on the map they were.

One of my good friends restarted some months ago on W12. He was #3 on the server in Dueling rank. He had I think 20 targets in a 6 hour travel range from him. Tell me Da Twista how much fun is that if you enjoy dueling?

This so call fix INNO has implemented is not going to help make "EVERYONE" raise dueling levels, all you (INNO) have done is destroy the last fun part of this game for MANY of your remaining players. I'm not trying to be mean with this, I'm just telling you the truth from the eyes of a very large part of your (INNOs) game population.

This is it for me, I don't know if I'm going to delete yet, I might possibly put my accounts on perma-vacation but all the fun in the game has been destroyed for me.

Da Twista, please relay this to your INNO developers. "Thank you for Farmville, version 2.0." SmittyJohnson.

 

[DeletedUser]

Funny that the 2 reps of the company are like what? Huh? Don't even understand the complaints? Yeah.

Go hire someone who joined 11-18 months ago who devoted their every energy to dueling. Where was the sign that said "DUELING IS NOT ALLOWED AS CURRENTLY ALLOWED" YOU WILL LOSE ALL CURRENT ACHIEVEMENTS AS SOON AS WE CAN CODE IT.

 

[DeletedUser]

Funny that the 2 reps of the company are like what? Huh? Don't even understand the complaints? Yeah.

Go hire someone who joined 11-18 months ago who devoted their every energy to dueling. Where was the sign that said "DUELING IS NOT ALLOWED AS CURRENTLY ALLOWED" YOU WILL LOSE ALL CURRENT ACHIEVEMENTS AS SOON AS WE CAN CODE IT.

Pretty much, wasted time, effort, and money. There are so many easy fixes to 0 motivation and they have to chose the worst possible one for the majority of the ACTIVE dueling population left on the games.

 

[DeletedUser23737]

I like Helen's post. Many good points raised. And Smitty's.

On Dakota, I am 5th ranked xp dueler. I have about 8 -10 targets across the world to duel at any one time.

For players like Nicky Lawson... who has switched to fort fighting months and months ago... she just gets farmed by myself and others. It can't be much fun for her... and it is dull as for me.

I personally think zero motivation requires a lot more dedication to maintain. Being #5 with xp dueling does not make me think I am #5 in duel ability. I had many great battles with zero motivation duelers from Mad Cow Disease and other duel towns like Crazy Town. Currently only a monster dueler on Dakota gives me any run for my money (read: he is 10 levels above me and very very dedicated to this game). Just one player means Dakota has become a very boring world to exist on. Sad considering all the time and money I have spent on my avatar there.

Nerfing npc duels will not suddenly give me lots of targets on Dakota. It will drive some players away and it will mean others will ever so slowly increase in duel level... but not enough to keep up with any of the high level xp duelers.

When I am able to be pure zero motivation (currently El Dorado), I have many, many players I can duel... I spread out the pain. Even Smitty has only been hit by me once there. This means players can enjoy other aspects of the game... and not get continually harassed.

 

[DeletedUser22685]

Reading this thread I feel like there are a few things I need to comment on.

Perhaps the single greatest contributor to the decline in the player base over the years is the incessant whining of the vocal minority on a purely selfish basis that greets both new updates and existing features. Now before the 0 mots launch a tirade, I'm actually not talking about this issue in particular at this point (though in some ways it does apply), but rather those leading up to it.

Obviously, the forum base represents such a small portion of the overall player base that it can't always be relied upon to provide an accurate representation of the general opinion amongst the players. Logic tells us that it should provide us with an average, however this is not always the case. It's become apparent to me over the last few years that players are far more willing to complain about something they don't like than compliment - let alone defend - something they do like.

As a result, opinions in the forum generally give off a far more negative vibe than those in-game. Since most players are again more willing to form opinions based on what will benefit them rather than what is in the best interests of the game as a whole, the negative vibe in the forum is often ill-founded but leads to those reading it to believe the opinion of the apparently overwhelming majority.

The most disgraceful example of this that I can recall off the top of my head happened only recently in the Beta poll regarding job KOs and duel protection. Anyone who looks at that aspect of the game objectively has to realise that it's a flawed mechanic. People talk about 0 mot duelling like it's an exploit; turning a feature designed as a penalty into one that provides a benefit. The exact same can be said of remaining under constant 48 hour duel protection. Initially, 48 hours of no duelling was designed to punish duellers who were outmatched. I won't try to argue that it was not also a means of allowing a respite for players who had been beaten badly enough to lose all of their health, but the fact that you lose all your cash indicates that it was never a reward.

The fact that it is possible for players to remain under constant protection from duels at virtually no personal expense through the completely unrelated jobs system is utterly ludicrous. Yet when duel protection was removed from job KOs, dozens whined in the Beta forum and were victorious in a poll over the few of us who looked at it objectively, and only once the exploit was reinstated did the duellers come out to whine in their turn.

How is this related to the current issue of duel motivation?

Firstly, because this is a continuation of the attempt to balance 0 mot duelling that began between the removal and reinstatement of the aforementioned job KOs. When the protection was removed, the devs' attention was drawn to the amount of people who felt harassed by 0 mot duellers. This led them to begin planning the best way to appease both parties in the ensuing updates. I believe this plan included removing job KOs once an adequate counter for 0 mot bullies had been implemented.

Clearly, this is the attempt at countering 0 mots. Will it work? Only time - NOT whining - will tell us that. I do believe, however, that had job KOs been removed with it, the update would have been a lot fairer overall, which, rather than accommodating for the demands of individual players, is the aim of game development, contrary to popular belief.

The second reason this is a similar situation to the job KO nerf is that the whining of duellers now is reminiscent of the whining of non-duellers then. Like FC mentioned a few pages back, 0 mot duelling existed long before NPCs were introduced. Then people like Hans Bros on World 1 and Neo on World 10 perfected the art while it was at least somewhat of a challenge. Now, there's no challenge to it whatsoever.

As someone who has played many characters over the years, I have racked up more than 7000 wins as a 0 mot and over 3000 as an exp dueller with a peak rank of 2, and any 0 mot dueller who says it takes "dedication" to lower your duel motivation and it's a "challenge" to beat up on njubs who haven't even learned how to play is kidding themselves. Granted, there are different kinds of 0 mot duellers. There are those in the mould of Hans Bros and Neo who I mentioned earlier, who reached level 120 and keep their motivation low so their targets remain experienced but plentiful. Then there are the level 30 worker killers from whom all complaints about 0 mot duelling stem.

The point I'm making here is that a balance is necessary. Don't rush to condemn any feature without first considering why it was needed, because nothing is done without a reason, whether the reason is well founded or misguided through selfish complaints. Returning fire with equally selfish complaints will never accomplish anything unless constructive criticism is offered along with it. Take what I mentioned earlier about attempting another removal of job KOs to accompany a rebalancing of 0 mot duelling and build on it.

This is aimed at both parties. Rage quitting from either side of the fence is detrimental to progress. The game can't function without duellers, without workers or without fort fighters. Together, by considering the game's best interests rather than personal preferences, solutions can be reached.

I believe I've typed enough words here to make up for the posts I've missed over the last few months, so I'll leave you with that for now.

 

[DeletedUser]

There are 2 types of Zero Motivation Duelers :
* bullies who want to just beat up the weakest targets over and over (I know of one person who quit and restarted after a while, just to have another shot at the newbies)
* players who want to make sure that, whenever they feel like dueling, they have a sufficient amount of targets

The first type gets screwed by this change, but rightfully so imho.
The second type thinks they got screwed by this change, but imho they drastically overestimate it's consequences for them. Yes, their dueling level will go up, but so will that of other people in a similar situation. Eventually, they will find themselves having a higher dueling level, but they'll still have a relatively big amount of targets (yes, the people who absolutely don't duel will drop out of their selection, but if you care about that, maybe you were really in the first type, but didn't realize it?). They worry and whine about that bigger dueling level, but fail to see that, because of the effect of this change on other people, that's no longer as big as a "problem" as it would have been without this change.

PS: the argument about dueling FFers doesn't make much sense imho. What decent FFer doesn't job KO himself? That said, I think that if the bad kind of ZMD is sufficiently hurt by this change, removing duel protection from job KO might be a good idea...

Aside from this little defense of this change, I think the best idea would be to (also) make dueling level just for ranking/bragging. Duel target restrictions would work purely by regular level (from -X% to 150, with X starting out at 30, but possibly gradually moving to 10 or even 0, based on the amount of offensive duels).
You can ZMD to gain less XP and maximize target selection, but the login bonus keeps your level going up no matter what, and shifting X means that the weaker targets drop from your radar slightly faster (though maybe not fast enough, the X parameter could be even more volatile, shooting up relatively fast so that after loads of offensive duels you would only be able to fight people higher than you, but eventually moving in the other direction a bit as you level beyond 100 or so, as your victims should've learned to take it at that point, and we don't want to restrict your target selection too much).
On the other hand, you should always have a fairly decent selection of targets (unless you're at the top of the regular XP ranking with a wide gap behind you, but the regular way to get there doesn't involve much dueling anyway )

 

[DeletedUser]

When I am able to be pure zero motivation (currently El Dorado), I have many, many players I can duel... I spread out the pain. Even Smitty has only been hit by me once there. This means players can enjoy other aspects of the game... and not get continually harassed.

And quite the hit it was, very respectable indeed

 

[DeletedUser]

This is aimed at both parties. Rage quitting from either side of the fence is detrimental to progress. The game can't function without duellers, without workers or without fort fighters. Together, by considering the game's best interests rather than personal preferences, solutions can be reached.

Futu every update with duelers since what 1.3ish? You know when it was made a pure dodge/aim game, has been detrimental to dueling. So when do we duelers get a say about the future of what we love to do?

This was the last straw for many of us older players who have been around since the or at least close to the beginning of this game. Every dueling update has been for the people who don't enjoy dueling. Many very good ideas have put forward to fix the issue. None of them have been taken seriously.

What INNO "DESPERATELY" needs to take seriously is that the active players, those who play and don't play for 30 or 40 levels then quit, the MAJORITY of the ACTIVE duelers hate this. We tried to warn INNO, we posted "And had many posts removed in this very forum" about this very update.

Were we listened to? Obviously not. This is not RAGE quit for many of us. INNO was warned we would leave if they did this. This is a premeditated quit . Big difference there Futu.

 

[DeletedUser]

What THEY don't understand, because I guess THEY don't play their own game... is I don't want to level up for any reason, because I have a lot of personal RL effort invested to get my current gear.

 

[Diminished Fifth]

No, it's not quitting from rage.

It's quitting because the game no longer provides the entertaining elements that attracted me.

 

[DeletedUser22685]

What INNO "DESPERATELY" needs to take seriously is that the active players, those who play and don't play for 30 or 40 levels then quit, the MAJORITY of the ACTIVE duelers hate this. We tried to warn INNO, we posted "And had many posts removed in this very forum" about this very update.

Were we listened to? Obviously not. This is not RAGE quit for many of us. INNO was warned we would leave if they did this. This is a premeditated quit . Big difference there Futu.

The term "premeditated quit" suggests that no update could have prevented it and a true premeditated quit would be nothing more than a prolonged rage quit, so I don't think that's the correct term. Perhaps an exasperated quit, hehe.

Don't get me wrong, I was not referring to the aim/dodge formula change in the slightest. You'll never see me defending that particular update since, as those who know me know, I was one of the most active and vocal opponents of those changes both before and after the update here in the forum as well as internally where things get done. I admit that situation was poorly handled but my confidence in the developers has increased tenfold since those times (beaides, a new formula has been in the works to replace the broken one for some time now).

In fact, I'm not even trying to defend this update because as I think I made clear, I'm a firm member of the anti-cry babies club and this update in its current state further assists the cry babies. It's a good direction but lacks the precious balance that is required.

This is a different situation entirely to the breaking of the duel formula and is by no means a game breaker like the broken system you cited. 0 mot duellers now have to do it the traditional way again and since they all apparently relish the "challenge" of low level 0 mot duelling, you'd think they'd embrace the change. It's only a couple of good suggestions, such as rethinking job KOs, away from being a positive update, but I'm yet to see more than one or two people attempt to provide any.

 

[DeletedUser]

The term "premeditated quit" suggests that no update could have prevented it and a true premeditated quit would be nothing more than a prolonged rage quit, so I don't think that's the correct term. Perhaps an exasperated quit, hehe.

Don't get me wrong, I was not referring to the aim/dodge formula change in the slightest. You'll never see me defending that particular update since, as those who know me know, I was one of the most active and vocal opponents of those changes both before and after the update here in the forum as well as internally where things get done. I admit that situation was poorly handled but my confidence in the developers has increased tenfold since those times (beaides, a new formula has been in the works to replace the broken one for some time now).

In fact, I'm not even trying to defend this update because as I think I made clear, I'm a firm member of the anti-cry babies club and this update in its current state further assists the cry babies. It's a good direction but lacks the precious balance that is required.

This is a different situation entirely to the breaking of the duel formula and is by no means a game breaker like the broken system you cited. 0 mot duellers now have to do it the traditional way again and since they all apparently relish the "challenge" of low level 0 mot duelling, you'd think they'd embrace the change. It's only a couple of good suggestions, such as rethinking job KOs, away from being a positive update, but I'm yet to see more than one or two people attempt to provide any.

Touche' on the terminology of exasperated.

No this isn't a challenge it became impossible as a 'dueler class' with the 40% or 80% if premium increased motivation range. Well if I was unemployed, did nothing but sit at my computer all day it might be possible. But I go to work and commute. 11 to 12 hours without a duel just made it impossible without NPC's.

This 'fix' was the worst move INNO has made since the 1.3 fix FUTU. And I know I speak for many others when I say I'm tired of not being listened to when it comes to changes regarding duelers.

I am NOT a whiner. I've done everything this game has to offer, Motivation Dueling, ZMD, Questor, FFer, Builder. etc... I've taken the hits as a non dueler from the duelers. I've dueled with the best the game had, and the best the game has. Very few times have I made a complaint about updates etc...

This one is different though, this one ruined my 2 primary dueling accounts. I just can't find a reason to stay with the game anymore after this. And I'm talking to dozens of others (just those I know personally) who are having the same sentiment.

Why should we stay when INNO doesn't listen to what we want as well, when what we enjoyed was taken without a second thought to please those who can't handle what the game was based on???

 

[HelenBack]

Futu every update with duelers since what 1.3ish? You know when it was made a pure dodge/aim game, has been detrimental to dueling. So when do we duelers get a say about the future of what we love to do?

This was the last straw for many of us older players who have been around since the or at least close to the beginning of this game. Every dueling update has been for the people who don't enjoy dueling. Many very good ideas have put forward to fix the issue. None of them have been taken seriously.

What INNO "DESPERATELY" needs to take seriously is that the active players, those who play and don't play for 30 or 40 levels then quit, the MAJORITY of the ACTIVE duelers hate this. We tried to warn INNO, we posted "And had many posts removed in this very forum" about this very update.

Were we listened to? Obviously not. This is not RAGE quit for many of us. INNO was warned we would leave if they did this. This is a premeditated quit . Big difference there Futu.

Touche' on the terminology of exasperated.

No this isn't a challenge it became impossible as a 'dueler class' with the 40% or 80% if premium increased motivation range. Well if I was unemployed, did nothing but sit at my computer all day it might be possible. But I go to work and commute. 11 to 12 hours without a duel just made it impossible without NPC's.

This 'fix' was the worst move INNO has made since the 1.3 fix FUTU. And I know I speak for many others when I say I'm tired of not being listened to when it comes to changes regarding duelers.

I am NOT a whiner. I've done everything this game has to offer, Motivation Dueling, ZMD, Questor, FFer, Builder. etc... I've taken the hits as a non dueler from the duelers. I've dueled with the best the game had, and the best the game has. Very few times have I made a complaint about updates etc...

This one is different though, this one ruined my 2 primary dueling accounts. I just can't find a reason to stay with the game anymore after this. And I'm talking to dozens of others (just those I know personally) who are having the same sentiment.

Why should we stay when INNO doesn't listen to what we want as well, when what we enjoyed was taken without a second thought to please those who can't handle what the game was based on???

I can't add anything to that... Well said Smitty. Thank you!

PS: the argument about dueling FFers doesn't make much sense imho. What decent FFer doesn't job KO himself? That said, I think that if the bad kind of ZMD is sufficiently hurt by this change, removing duel protection from job KO might be a good idea...

Not all FFers use that EXPLOIT... Seriously... it is an exploit. You plan on keeping yourself under KO by doing jobs so your enemy can't duel you on your way to battle and you're free and clear to do jobs and quest without worrying about duels... Not only that, it's even easier now that it only take 1 Energy to do a 15 second job. So the FFers are welcomed and encouraged to use an exploit while Inno goes to war on getting rid of ZMDs. Yup... Seems fair to me... Absolutely no favouritism there.

 

[DeletedUser23737]

The myth of dueling at zero motivation.

Logain Albar has correctly identified a myth that hurts the dedication of zero motivation duelers:

"There are 2 types of Zero Motivation Duelers :
* bullies who want to just beat up the weakest targets over and over'."

The aim of dueling is to win. Winning has its own rewards. It gains 5 points to the town ranking system. I like the idea of being in a top town and have worked very hard to be a part of several top towns in various worlds. Winning gives the dueler a chance to earn an income. I like getting cash from other players.

Remember, in this game there are no victims because:

Every player can place skills where they like.

Every player can choose to belong to a town and be 'duelable' or not.

Every player can choose to work KO... live in a town... and not get dueled.

Every player can choose a duel class.

It is not bullying to hit a player lower level than you and take the win. It is not cowardly. It is merely a way of achieving a goal (be it cash, town points, revenge etc etc).


In response to Futu.

It is not whining to voice a disagreement to a new problem. It is very healthy to voice happiness or displeasure at a change when it hits at the very heart of what made 'The West' such an attractive game to play in the beginning. To label people who voice displeasure as whingers is very negative and condescending imo.

I played W10 for a time when it started and had a lot of success dueling in 'The Hunting Party.' I don't know who this Neo is. He was and is unknown to me. If he is a high win, low motivation dueler, then he understands the dedication required to maintain that discipline.

Anyone who plays the west must accept the fact that their will be a dueling component.

'Discover new lands and experience exciting new lands and duels' kinda gives the game away... wouldn't you agree?