Duel Mot Split...

[DeletedUser]

i'm with Helen on this one. I simply don't have time to run around all day long to find easy targets to keep low mot. if my duel lvl raises i'll end up duelling same players every day. game killer for me...

 

[DeletedUser32844]

NPC duelling is not removed from the game. It is very much still there. Now the motivation for NPC duelling and Player duelling is separate and duelling a NPC does not effect the player duelling motivation.

Really?? How come the NPC indicates invalid dueling partner ??

 

[DeletedUser]

It's certainly not that difficult is it? If there were no 0% duellers in this game, everyone's duel XP will rise together keeping you in range to duel other duellers. Unless you prefer hitting players that prefer not to duel in this game? These are the only targets you would potentially lose.

But it's certainly not much of a change from when there were no NPCs to duel in the game - before this feature was introduced. Once you have 0% mot, I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard to keep it there.

This "fix" and this post aggravates me so much that i'm struggling not to insult you people.

Do you really hate dueling community that much that you go to ridiculous lengths just to screw up their gameplay and chase them away? Or psychoactive substances just got legalized and planners are having a really bad trip? (Damn it, struggle lost...)


This "fix" implies that there are many duelers around and only problem is that they have different dueling lvls, so you will fix that by this "fantastic solution", much like killing all the hungry people in the world would end world hunger.

Lets workout another blind corner here, what if i get KOd on one of the new jobs while doing a quest? (that happens a lot recently) Now i can't duel for few days while my motivation is raising freely.

After all the feedback, carefully layed out different plans, after all the votes of community that pointed you in the right direction (opposed only by famous "dueling? yuck, they are evil!" argument) you came up with this pile of _____!

 

[DeletedUser]

So where is my free potions to reskill? Or do only fort fighters get those when they tweak their formula. Ruin Dueling, no potions?

Also, please let me know if it is safe to reskill to pure swimmer? Or are they going to target that next.

 

[HelenBack]

I hate to mention this, but before they introduced the NPC bandits all zero mot duellers had to duel real targets to lower their motivation. Helen, you've been around in this game since that time I think, so this should not be a gamekiller for you.

Back to the time before NPCs... There were thousands more people playing each world... I don't remember the exact numbers, all I know is that I easily had a good 100+ targets available within a 5-10 minute radius. Also, back then, my RL wasn't as insanely busy as it is now... I had more time to play. Now, I don't have time to hunt all over the map for the few low duel levels that I can duel... NPCs allow me to keep my duel mot low when I'm not dueling and could then take part in fort battles/quests/etc.

The west as a Duelling game is now done imo, those that will continue to duel will raise their duel level faster but as with time spent on-line for most being varied, i can only see less and less targets be available for duelling over time. RIP The West as i knew it

I agree...

It's certainly not that difficult is it? If there were no 0% duellers in this game, everyone's duel XP will rise together keeping you in range to duel other duellers. Unless you prefer hitting players that prefer not to duel in this game? These are the only targets you would potentially lose.

But it's certainly not much of a change from when there were no NPCs to duel in the game - before this feature was introduced. Once you have 0% mot, I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard to keep it there.

If you are not actively dueling because you are taking time out to quest/fort fight/etc... Your dueling mot is going to raise. You have to take the time out of the questing/fort fighting to duel... and you have to scour the map to find low XP people to duel. Also, if you don't keep on top of it and someone duels you... loses... and you get a bunch of dueling XP, then you will wind up having your duel level sky rocket. I like being able to do a variety of options in the game... dueling... fort fighting... questing... This is going to severely limit my options when I do manage to have time to be online.

Again... The difference between now and way back prior to NPCs... There were a LOT more people playing the game. A LOT!!! There is no denying that fact.

I liked to lower my duel mot via NPCs... then go out hunting... Usually for alliance enemies. So with the way this is going, soon we will no longer be able to duel enemy fort fighters prior to battle. Their duel levels won't be increasing... Do you expect a level 60 dueler with a high duel level to try and take down a level 120+ fort fighting tank?

DaTwista, that would imply that there are many duellers in the game... it is harder than that to find someone with a duel build to hit these days, and they don't carry money!

True... Duelers don't carry money... unless they have just dueled someone that was carrying money and they haven't banked yet. So duelers won't have any income unless they stop to do jobs... and then their duel mot will increase... etc...

i'm with Helen on this one. I simply don't have time to run around all day long to find easy targets to keep low mot. if my duel lvl raises i'll end up duelling same players every day. game killer for me...

Agreed DZ... thanks.

Really?? How come the NPC indicates invalid dueling partner ??

Sounds like a bug Sissy... When I dueled the NPCs, it didn't show the duel in the window, but it did count towards my dailies... They should be able to fix that soon.

This "fix" and this post aggravates me so much that i'm struggling not to insult you people.

Do you really hate dueling community that much that you go to ridiculous lengths just to screw up their gameplay and chase them away? Or psychoactive substances just got legalized and planners are having a really bad trip? (Damn it, struggle lost...)


This "fix" implies that there are many duelers around and only problem is that they have different dueling lvls, so you will fix that by this "fantastic solution", much like killing all the hungry people in the world would end world hunger.

Lets workout another blind corner here, what if i get KOd on one of the new jobs while doing a quest? (that happens a lot recently) Now i can't duel for few days while my motivation is raising freely.

After all the feedback, carefully layed out different plans, after all the votes of community that pointed you in the right direction (opposed only by famous "dueling? yuck, they are evil!" argument) you came up with this pile of _____!

Nice try with the struggle... and ya, I completely agree with what you said.

 

[DeletedUser8627]

To the developers:

Congratulations, you have destroyed your own game.

You started with the most unwieldy dueling set up possible, but we who dueled as a class persevered. You decided that you'd make Fort battles the big thing, and lost 90% of your players, then decided to listen to the whining crybabies who destroyed the rest of the game, to make it ever more difficult for the duelers.

I'm sure you're mistaken if you think 90% of the playerbase is playing this game just for the duelling aspect.

Really?? How come the NPC indicates invalid dueling partner ??

That is a bug, crept in with the update today. It's been reported though, should be fixed soon.

This "fix" and this post aggravates me so much that i'm struggling not to insult you people.

Do you really hate dueling community that much that you go to ridiculous lengths just to screw up their gameplay and chase them away? Or psychoactive substances just got legalized and planners are having a really bad trip? (Damn it, struggle lost...)


This "fix" implies that there are many duelers around and only problem is that they have different dueling lvls, so you will fix that by this "fantastic solution", much like killing all the hungry people in the world would end world hunger.

Lets workout another blind corner here, what if i get KOd on one of the new jobs while doing a quest? (that happens a lot recently) Now i can't duel for few days while my motivation is raising freely.

After all the feedback, carefully layed out different plans, after all the votes of community that pointed you in the right direction (opposed only by famous "dueling? yuck, they are evil!" argument) you came up with this pile of _____!

Perhaps it's time for you to explore other adventures within the game now and use the features provided to you as they were initially intended. The overall game design does not target one feature for players to utilize, there are an assortment of jobs to do. To a degree, the whole skill system was designed to cater for all the features. And I'm well aware that some players only duel in this game.

Understandable that this change has upset a small portion of the duelling community but these players got along just fine before the NPC duelling feature came to be. Now that this option has basically reverted back to what it was before, it's a problem.

Many of the complaints laid down in this thread is about targets and the lack of. Hence why some duelers find it better to be a 0% motivation dueler. Sure, but not everyone enjoys constantly being attacked by duellers, we get more complaints from players being duelled than the duellers themselves. Crybabies? Maybe so, but some duellers have taken duelling a little too far when it comes to abusing other players.

Of course you may not agree with this, but yet we are the ones that have to deal with the problems.

At the end of the day, 0% motivation duelling wasn't removed from the game, it was adjusted. You can still duel at 0% motivation, it will just cost a little extra effort.

 

[DeletedUser]

It is what is it is! We will make things happen; As for Da Twista, he has nothing do with this. Many people must have reported on various other forums besides this one about how unfair it was to have people at level 50 with named items dueling them at level 38. Trust me it is not fun. As for the fort fight, they have not changed, only the gear and weapons that are available.

 

[DeletedUser34546]

Since we are not fixing the duel-level issue. Lets introduce it to fort-fighters as well. If you say have won many forts, lots of fort points, you can't dig against a town who hasn't got many. Just as fair.

I'm undecided what I will do now. I might try keeping 0 motivation by hitting as many people as I can -- but I probably dont have time to keep my motivation that low. So, either I quit duelling, and just do fort-fighting - except I rarely can be online at the time of the battles in my world (so I get bored), or I finally have my excuse to retire.

 

[DeletedUser]

I'm sure you're mistaken if you think 90% of the playerbase is playing this game just for the duelling aspect.

They aren't playing it for the dueling now, he is reffering to past times, anyway inno succesfully chased away most of the people from dueling.

Perhaps it's time for you to explore other adventures within the game now and use the features provided to you as they were initially intended. The overall game design does not target one feature for players to utilize, there are an assortment of jobs to do. To a degree, the whole skill system was designed to cater for all the features. And I'm well aware that some players only duel in this game.

You're joking right? I am accomplished fort fighter with around 500 fort fight under my belt, even used to lead them sometimes, i have around 970 finished quests according to my sig, and i nurture balanced style of gaming which includes all aspects of the game, but first and foremost i am a dueler and because of this "fix" i CANNOT "explore other adventures" as you put it, because i have to maniacally duel non stop to even have a chance ofplaying my game. God forbid i get KOd or pass out on the job...

Understandable that this change has upset a small portion of the duelling community but these players got along just fine before the NPC duelling feature came to be. Now that this option has basically reverted back to what it was before, it's a problem.

We have different circumstances now, it isn't the same playing field as it was before, and i will repeat that with treating dueling in the way you did you chased most of the people from that aspect of the game, that is the only reason why that portion might look small to you, but trust me each and everyplayer that is or used to be a dueler clearly sees what a huge mess developers made with dueling.

Many of the complaints laid down in this thread is about targets and the lack of. Hence why some duelers find it better to be a 0% motivation dueler. Sure, but not everyone enjoys constantly being attacked by duellers, we get more complaints from players being duelled than the duellers themselves. Crybabies? Maybe so, but some duellers have taken duelling a little too far when it comes to abusing other players.

Of course you may not agree with this, but yet we are the ones that have to deal with the problems.

Answer me why do you find it necessary to cater the needs of one obviously feeble minded group at the expense of duelers?
There are numerous simple mechanisms to protect your self from dueling, and if someone cannot wrap their mind around either of them it deserves to be "abused" as you put it, (btw thats terrible choice of words, if i'm abusing someone i should be banned from the game if not you should check the terms you're using) i would used word dueled,but hey its just me.
Anyway what astonishes me is that you would change complete gameplay and ruin the game for many old hardcore players because you have number of special little boys that cannot comprehend the concept of spending 2 energy every 48 hours to be safe from dueling.
I applaud you sir, to you and to developers alike.

About bolded part: we have it worst, we have to deal with your solutions.

At the end of the day, 0% motivation duelling wasn't removed from the game, it was adjusted. You can still duel at 0% motivation, it will just cost a little extra effort.

It isn't a bug its a feature.
Ketchup is a vegetable.
Thats basicly same thing as bolded part. Its effectively removed...

As for last sentence, you can but you cannot do anything else and you mustn't get passed out or KOd. So actually you can't.

 

[DeletedUser]

So where is my free potions to reskill? Or do only fort fighters get those when they tweak their formula. Ruin Dueling, no potions?

Also, please let me know if it is safe to reskill to pure swimmer? Or are they going to target that next.

Exactly the question I would like an answer to. My duel build is now going to require more time than I can afford, so I am either going to abandon dueling, or abandon the game. Without a free reskill, it's going to take ages in cooldowns for me to reskill, so it's looking like a possible deletion of characters for me.

 

[DeletedUser30417]

Imagine getting KO'd as a zero mot dueler, having to watch your PvP duel motivation increasing for 48 hours without being able to counter it.

 

[DeletedUser34759]

kinda funny, with every single update this game became sugar game type like Farmville- hearts, rainbows :laugh:

 

[DeletedUser]

Perhaps it's time for you to explore other adventures within the game now and use the features provided to you as they were initially intended. The overall game design does not target one feature for players to utilize, there are an assortment of jobs to do. To a degree, the whole skill system was designed to cater for all the features. And I'm well aware that some players only duel in this game.

Understandable that this change has upset a small portion of the duelling community but these players got along just fine before the NPC duelling feature came to be. Now that this option has basically reverted back to what it was before, it's a problem.

Many of the complaints laid down in this thread is about targets and the lack of. Hence why some duelers find it better to be a 0% motivation dueler. Sure, but not everyone enjoys constantly being attacked by duellers, we get more complaints from players being duelled than the duellers themselves. Crybabies? Maybe so, but some duellers have taken duelling a little too far when it comes to abusing other players.

Of course you may not agree with this, but yet we are the ones that have to deal with the problems.

At the end of the day, 0% motivation duelling wasn't removed from the game, it was adjusted. You can still duel at 0% motivation, it will just cost a little extra effort.

Da Twista "Perhaps it's time for you to explore other adventures within the game now" argument is ridiculous. Many here arguing here have and are currently exploring many aspects of this game. Since this was your answer to Anrchy111 arguments i opened his profile on colo and he has 25k+ achievement points. I'd say this qualifies for exploring other adventures within the game. 0 mot for most of us is way of playing that actually enables us to keep our options in the game opened for future. Just because some portion of 0 mots give you grey hair you don't have to kill it for all of us.

Several suggestions how to solve it were made, here are some more:
1. open non duelling world for sissies. I'll go out on the limb and i'll use "F" word for it (which accidentally coincides with current world naming convention" - just call it Farmville. While at it please open "Fortless" world too
2. besides 48h protection those KOed could get additional protection from player that actually KOed them. week, two weeks maybe. make it a month for all i care, but this should be a good step toward solving some of abuse from duellers you mentioned

At the end of the day 0 mot duelling was removed from the game for many of us that don't have much time for west, but we still enjoy this way of playing it!

 

[DeletedUser34315]

You want to really know what drives away a low level player, more than duelers?
The utter stupidity of low level quests and restrictions.
I started a brand new account on beta. I was given a quest as a level 6 to open the town overview-that can't be opened till level 10. I clicked the duels tab- no dueling till you are a level 10 as well. Fort battle overview is also restricted.

Why restrict the best parts of the game to incoming players?
Why make them do jobs and quests, why not let them do the really fun parts of the game- duels and fortfighting?

 

[DeletedUser8627]

Oh don't get me wrong, I'm not against 0% motivation duelling, it's a clever tactic in the game to keep your target numbers up. I never had a problem with that.

But many players do have a problem with with being duelled constantly. And due to this many solutions were considered and entertained. I'm not the one that makes these decisions, decisions are made from a number of aspects being this from community feedback to new features that will appear in the game at a later stage. Usually small preparations like these are made for bigger features coming in later on.

I'm not in agreement or disagreement of this adjustment, I'm neutral. Perhaps I'm concerned about the fact that players got along just fine before NPC duelling was available and now that it's back, there are numerous complaints about it.

 

[DeletedUser]

I'm not in agreement or disagreement of this adjustment, I'm neutral. Perhaps I'm concerned about the fact that players got along just fine before NPC duelling was available and now that it's back, there are numerous complaints about it.

Answer is simple. back in the day worlds had 10x as many active players as they have now and constant stream of new ones. 0 mot without NPCs was much easier back then.

 

[Ripwise]

I welcome this change. I have 0 mot dueler and xp dueler and know the difference. If you want to bash workers do it trough activity, if not, then play with big boys.

I see red rep coming

 

[DeletedUser23737]

I'll live

In reply to Helen Back's comment about player numbers... I remember when there were 7 worlds with over 300,000 people playing. Back then, towns were filled with passionate people. It was great to go into a town and duel everyone from there. Would cause a tonne of trouble.

However, the game has changed, is changing... and will continue to change... and I like some changes... and I grind my teeth over others. Yet, still here I am... living my west life to try and bring pain to as many builders/fort fighters and adventurers as humanly possible. :laugh:

The funniest thing for me to acknowledge, is no matter how many changes... most people eventually cotton on... and end up all doing the same thing and having very similar builds. Much like cockroaches, we all adapt to our new environment.

This duel motivation change is just like that. We will keep dueling like usual. It is likely for a player who wants to enjoy their dueling that they will have to forgo quests/fort fights etc because time away from dueling will result in a greater increase of duel motivation.

Look out if you get KO'd and have to spend 48 hours watching your duel motivation creep up!

However... life will go on... builders/adventurers and fort fighters will still squeal loudly when they get dueled (in a game where dueling is possible). They are great opportunities for a dueler to make money from.

I find it funny how the duelers are seen as a problem on this game these days... yet there's some great duel gear being offered for a sum of money in the tombola's. Shows me there's a few players out there still passionate about dueling.

Lastly, I think fort fighters are the problem... and would like to see them being KO'd for 48 hours from any fort fights when their health goes down to zero while in a battle. If they have job KO'd... or been duel KO'd.. this should also stop them from going to a fort fight. That would get them squealing... being treated just like a dueler. Imagine that!!

((For the uninitiated... job KO or duel KO for a dueler will mean no dueling for 48 hours)).

Any chance dueling will earn a player bonds? No? Well... what a surprise...

 

[DeletedUser]

Oh don't get me wrong, I'm not against 0% motivation duelling, it's a clever tactic in the game to keep your target numbers up. I never had a problem with that.

But many players do have a problem with with being duelled constantly. And due to this many solutions were considered and entertained. I'm not the one that makes these decisions, decisions are made from a number of aspects being this from community feedback to new features that will appear in the game at a later stage. Usually small preparations like these are made for bigger features coming in later on.

I'm not in agreement or disagreement of this adjustment, I'm neutral. Perhaps I'm concerned about the fact that players got along just fine before NPC duelling was available and now that it's back, there are numerous complaints about it.

Regardless of your attitude you can't deny that duelers are treated as a problem to this game. (can you?!) Continously being kicked and stepped on.
And thats basicly why we are complaining.

 

[DeletedUser30224]

I for one do not understand the displeasure. If they would say that they will remove NPC duelling completely would you be raging like this as well? Looking from an objective point of view, when we were milking the system for XP with the church building they stepped in and fixed it, when we were milking the system for experience with golden gun stack-able bonus they fixed it as well, NPC duelling for experience and cash - fixed, critical damage for duellers with new fort battle formula - fixed ... the instances are many.

InnoGames clearly sees NPC duelling to lower your motivation fast and cheap as an exploit in their game design. Maybe they were pushed to it by complaints, maybe their roadmap and game development has no room for that particular, dare I say exploit. We don't know the exact reason for this nor are we likely to find it soon.

In my opinion you have no valid, well thought reason to be so displeased. The game is changing, like it or not, any change they introduce upsets someone, there are no two ways about it. Out of all the population only a part are duellers at heart and only a slice of that part are 0 mot duellers out of which only a sliver find the update catastrophic.

I relish the opportunity that maybe now some of you will decide not to keep your duel motivation low and go for exp duelling like some of us did. In our eyes, you are selfishly but cleverly avoiding us. Not that we are better, but because you like easier targets. We have locked the door behind us and can only duel hard targets...therefore we call ourselves the top duellers and would invite you to disprove that

Reading this thread, some of you are behaving really strange. You are gathering an arsenal of not very well thought out reasons why the update is such an unacceptable feature. From Ko lasting weeks or months to removal of duel level. While I would very much like to see the removal of duel level, I know that it has been introduced to protect non-duellers to a degree. So while my selfish self would rejoice if that will happen, I can see the situation from a different point of view. Btw, have you thought about the possibility that you as a 0 mot dueller might be KO'd and will have to wait weeks or months to duel again? I am sure you have exaggerated and so have I.

What you need to do now is avoid getting KO'd, either in jobs or duels and with 6 duels per day, you are golden. If you get KO'd in the newly introduced high lvl quests (which you most probably will as we have learned on our on skin) stay under KO until you finish all the quest lines. I know it is not ideal but do not expect special treatment, you can't have it all. Non-duellers have to keep under KO if they want to be freely doing what they do, even exp duellers have it easier to make those questlines while under KO, so you are in the same boat with us with the obvious difference that once you want to get back in the thick of it, you'll have to duel around 33 players to get your motivation back to 0 if you can manage that in one day or 33+6 per each day. If you pick the smallest duel levels, your duel level will not increase that much.

A message from myself if I may...I'll get selfish and tell you to leave 0 mot duelling and come play with the big boys. Prove it to us that we are not "top duellers"