Duel Changes

DeletedUser35903

Malicious duelers have a negative impact, and weak Alliances without policies.

Lets apply some facts instead of ranting,
Fact, you already have the ability to keep from being dueled, always have.
Malicious duelers give dueling a bad outlook and require decisive actions.
Alliance policies can have a positive effect on duelers and deal with malicious duelers.

It is easy to just attack without suggestion, but what could we do better, after all we are the players and therefore the community(team).

I can look at your all's posting as a direction for attack, too easy. But these threads are supposed to be constructive.
It might be easier to just tell me to shut up, because I'm defending the dreaded dueler.
Lots of folks here have a lot of experience and knowledge, share it, help out the folks. No need to be negative nancy's and just look to insult everything someone has to say.
This is our game, as long as we have the ability to involve ourselves, inno would have less to worry about.
I deal with dueling issues also, as do you. Lets really seriously get together and do something, instead of crying to inno about it.
Don't you feel insulted that inno has to protect you, when there are thousands of players here that can do the same, lol.
This isn't my first day on this game.

Originally Posted by lumpy39us
As I also stated, our Alliances use our duelers to ward off the malicious duelers, it's our Alliance policy. We are trying to be part of the solution and not part of the problem.

Strong Alliance policies and unity will keep the malicious duelers in check and busy, ZMD allows an Alliance to protect at all levels.
Since day 1 anyone can keep from being dueled.
This is on you not me...

You said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by lumpy39us
The new dis-improvements have just ruined dueling anyways.

Because it is now harder to keep effective Alliance protectors at various levels
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnadine
The dueling changes are designed to protect non-duelers, so non-dueling alliance members won't need protectors anymore.

Inno has protected you, I didn't do this?

Do I need to say anything more? You're contradicting your own points now, dude.

Again you need inno for protection? You should be ashamed that you cannot rally your duelers in your defense and need an already overburdened outside party to protect you. Remember, inno has to staff folks to deal with all of the complaints. Weak Alliance policies and leadership, again not my problem. Get more effective leadership, or find an Alliance that already has good strong leadership and effective alliance policies.
 
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DeletedUser36979

...
But these threads are supposed to be constructive.

Then be constructive, and come with a constructive solution... all we get from you is how your alliance is strong, and people just should leave town if they don't like getting bullied... but not one constructive solution.

You repeatedly claim that duelers need to reskill or buy AP/SP, but offers no constructive alternative... one could be gaining levels, adapt and improve.

You just want to protect your playstyle of bullying those weaker than you, without gaining levels, because that would put you in the zone for other, stronger bullies that will beat you.

I want motivation set to 100 every 24 hours, and the dueler and worker perk reworked, since faster motivation gain won't be necesary anymore. Cap on motivation removed, but for all things should be: No motivation - no job, no duel, no construction.
Sure, this would require some changes on motivation costs, achievements and such.
Duel experience should only be awarded to the attacker, full on win, maybe 20-25% on a loss (we do learn much from mistakes and defeats, and losers at fortfights still gain experience). Ordinary experience to the winner.
Will this come to be? Highly unlikely.

But preventing duelers from lowering duel-level by losing bible/pillow duels on purpose would also be a decent step in the right direction. People don't unlearn abilities by using them... That would only require removing the 1/3 duel-exp loss to the loser.
 

DeletedUser35903

I'm not the one whining about getting dueled and you don't have the slightest idea of my dueling history. Your blaming all of the duelers that have hurt you on me.
I didn't say my Alliance was strong, I said your is weak because of your weak leadership.

Don't switch the words to fit your mind set.
Just say it, get it over with, dueling should be removed from the game.
 

DeletedUser36979

I'm not the one whining about getting dueled and you don't have the slightest idea of my dueling history. Your blaming all of the duelers that have hurt you on me.
I didn't say my Alliance was strong, I said your is weak because of your weak leadership.

Don't switch the words to fit your mind set.
Just say it, get it over with, dueling should be removed from the game.

When are you going to get constructive?

I have never blamed you for duels, as you said, I don't know you. Yet you blame me for being in a weak alliance... based on what knowledge? Or you just pointing the blame finger without proof?

Now get constructive (you did say yourself that the thread should be), and tell us how you'd like to see dueling in the future, since you appearantly have all the right answers and opinions, and the current system obviously is not good enough for you.
 

DeletedUser35903

I tried, you all are trollers and flamers. Just want a fight, pretty easy on the internet.
I'm done here.

I am an administrator on a internet forum, before I was accepted as an administrator It was required for me to review some sites on flaming and trolling. I'm very familiar with these tactics. You are enjoying the bashing session, because it;s how you get your rocks off.

This is just baiting, trolling and flaming.
I'm not perfect, but I'm not stupid either.
 
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DeletedUser35520

as much as i enjoy seeing the forum active and even reading these type of posts, they are loose loose. everyone thinks their opinion is the correct one, so they do little good to actually work out or solve anything. In regards to the game, it is clear that zmd is not the intended duel method of the developers and they are planning to fix it as best they can. If that means zmd leave the game, then so be it. The game constantly evolves and sometimes devolves in attempts to stay current and improve. Most do not respect zero mot because you are fighting against the free players, non skill buying, and those who do not have decent gear. Does that mean all zero mots do not have skill in dueling, no, but if you choose not to show your ability to construct a build that can beat the top players, then who knows if you really are good other than yourself?
 

DeletedUser36979

But these threads are supposed to be constructive.

You are enjoying the bashing session, because it;s how you get your rocks off.

How is you, pointint the blame finger, constructive?

I still would like to hear how you think dueling should be, but guessing you'd rather just point the blame finger and rant on about how I bash you.

I don't bash, I ask one simpel question: How would you like dueling to be?
 

DeletedUser35120

Again you need inno for protection? You should be ashamed that you cannot rally your duelers in your defense and need an already overburdened outside party to protect you. Remember, inno has to staff folks to deal with all of the complaints. Weak Alliance policies and leadership, again not my problem. Get more effective leadership, or find an Alliance that already has good strong leadership and effective alliance policies.

I didn't say my Alliance was strong, I said your is weak because of your weak leadership.

Why is this "I-You" thing coming up here anyway? You think it's just your personal game, or mine? Or just one another person? From your recent multiple posts here, I see you're getting all riled up and whining even more. Come back and make "constructive" (As termed by you) arguments when you've cooled down.
 
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DeletedUser35903

The following are definitions, and hardly complete. However, these are something to start with.
flaming — Includes, but is not limited to denigrating, deliberately provocative, or combative behavior intended specifically to goad or distress another. Designed to get an emotional response, which allows the flamer to continue their attack for the sheer joy of degrading and argument. Flamers will accept no accountability or responsibility and will continually shift the full weight of the conversation to their intended target in order to bait and continue their attack.

baiting — A form of entrapment intended to provoke another person into a violation of rules in order to justify punishment or warrant complaint. Also, selecting parts of conversation, to again goad and get emotional responses to further and continue the argumentative conversation.

trolling — Repeated disruptive and disingenuous behavior including, but not limited to, repetition of false assertions of fact, refusal to support extraordinary assertions, flaming, baiting, or willful misrepresentation of others. And selecting portions of and given conversation to confirm the trolls status within their own mindset to further the emotional draw with their intended target.

Flame trolling

Flame trolling is the posting of a provocative or offensive message, known as "flamebait",[14] to a public Internet discussion group, such as a forum, newsgroup or mailing list, with the intent of provoking an angry response (a "flame") or argument over a topic the poster often has no real interest in.[15] While flaming can occur as a result of legitimate debates or grievances, flame trolling implies the intentional posting of inflammatory, grossly offensive or menacing rhetoric or images for the fun of it in order to cause others harm.[16]
As stated, flame trolling can stem from a variety of issues, including misunderstandings, frustration, and perceptions of unfairness. One motive (from trolls especially) is the desire for attention and for entertainment derived at the expense of others.[17] Posted flamebait can provide the poster with a controlled trigger-and-response setting in which to anonymously engage in conflicts and indulge in aggressive behavior without facing the consequences that such behavior might bring in a face-to-face encounter, a fact parodied in a YouTube video by Isabel Fay.[18] In other instances, flamebait may be used to reduce a forum's use by angering the forum users. In 2012, it was announced that the US State Department would start flame trolling jihadists as part of Operation Viral Peace.[19]
Flame war

A flame war results when multiple users engage in provocative responses to an original post—while the original post is usually flamebait, this is not always the case. Flame wars often draw in many users (including those trying to diffuse the flame war) and can overshadow regular forum discussion if left unchecked.
Resolving a flame war can be difficult, as it is often hard to determine who is really responsible for the degradation of a reasonable discussion into flame war. Someone who posts a contrary opinion in a strongly focused discussion forum may be easily labeled a "baiter", "flamer", or "troll".
An approach to resolving a flame war or responding to flaming is to communicate openly with the offending users. Acknowledging mistakes, offering to help resolve the disagreement, making clear, reasoned arguments, and even self-deprecation have all been noted as worthwhile strategies to end such disputes. However, others prefer to simply ignore flaming, noting that, in many cases, if the flamebait receives no attention, it will quickly be forgotten as forum discussions carry on.[12] Unfortunately, this can motivate trolls to intensify their activities, creating additional distractions.
"Taking the bait" or "feeding the troll" refers to someone who responds to the original message regardless of whether they are aware the original message was intended to provoke a response.



As we recognize these traits, solutions become possible by disregarding the trolls and engaging in genuine conversation related to resolving the issues presented before us.


My response, this is called empowering​,



Malicious duelers have a negative impact, and weak Alliances without policies.

Lets apply some facts instead of ranting,
Fact, you already have the ability to keep from being dueled, always have.
Malicious duelers give dueling a bad outlook and require decisive actions.
Alliance policies can have a positive effect on duelers and deal with malicious duelers.

It is easy to just attack without suggestion, but what could we do better, after all we are the players and therefore the community(team).

I can look at your all's posting as a direction for attack, too easy. But these threads are supposed to be constructive.
It might be easier to just tell me to shut up, because I'm defending the dreaded dueler.
Lots of folks here have a lot of experience and knowledge, share it, help out the folks. No need to be negative nancy's and just look to insult everything someone has to say.
This is our game, as long as we have the ability to involve ourselves, inno would have less to worry about.
I deal with dueling issues also, as do you. Lets really seriously get together and do something, instead of crying to inno about it.
Don't you feel insulted that inno has to protect you, when there are thousands of players here that can
do the same, lol.
This isn't my first day on this game.


I also didn't select portions of the conversation to apply to any mindset, but rather was genuine in my intent. Though I did bait, but your doing the same thing so it's ok.
Some portions of the message are highlighted, these are solutions, or an opening towards encouraging you to becoming involved in a recourse of discussion towards the goal of finding solutions. And as trolls you will and have intentionally disregarded in order to gather an emotional response from me, as you have also pointed for me to calm down which confirms openly your intent, so you may further your efforts in continuing your attack.
You have failed to engage in the true course, due to your very disruptive intentions, your part in resolving problems in the community in which you share.
These are traits very common within internet circles, Flamers and trollers are empowered by the fact that no harm will befall them. If you need references, try google, you will find thousands of related internet sites related to your kind.


Inno, this is the problem here.
On my forum these trolls are dealt with immediately, which allows the community to openly converse without deliberate attempts to disrupt and enflame mature and logical discussions.
Don't feed the trolls, they will ruin a forum and an internet community.


Any further response on my part will only allow the trolls to further their focus and deliberately continue their intended attack. They have no intention of applying their knowledge and experience to a mature conversation and will not apply themselves towards community problem solving. They are the problem.

Oh and inno moderators and administrators,
I know your pain, hang in there you all are doing a wonderful job.

I'm done.
 
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DeletedUser36979

It is easy to just attack without suggestion

You attack well enough, but where are your suggestions?

You come with some links to wiki about flaming, trolling and such, some copy/paste of your old posts, but you don't answer one little question.

How would you like dueling to be?
 

DeletedUser35520

lumpy, if you knew mod pain then you would be following the rules of the forum and not posting off topic and not posting multiple posts after each other to make it easier on them
 

DeletedUser36559

Well... The only thing I can see if 'x' person has an opinion, another person has a different opinion to 'x' player and suddenly everyone blames each other for 'flaming' or 'baiting' while they all use very subtle flaming language yet it is said with a passive-aggressive undertone. If one person does not agree with your idea don't just automatically assume 'Oh they are flaming/ trolling and want to start a flame war'...

An Example here...

Again you need inno for protection? You should be ashamed that you cannot rally your duelers in your defense and need an already overburdened outside party to protect you. Remember, inno has to staff folks to deal with all of the complaints. Weak Alliance policies and leadership, again not my problem. Get more effective leadership, or find an Alliance that already has good strong leadership and effective alliance policies.

I can easily class this as baiting if I wanted to due to the way it was said.... but it doesn't matter anyways. What's been said has been said.
 

DeletedUser26820

I was thinking that. How many infractions is that already for double posting. :D


FC --

Can I carry your clubs for you at the next golf tournament as Kidd is really dropping the ball carrying them for me? I need a better caddie.... You need a better caddie... Kidd is in no way shape or form a caddie...

What were we talking about again or what was the purpose here?
Dueling?
Double Posts?

Pfft.... I need a golf cart with a fishing rod...
 

DeletedUser34295

"but most notably look out for less of an emphasis on aiming and dodging in favour of appearance and tactics"

So, if I understood it right, they're reverting things back to how they used to be on this point? I thought appearance and tactics were rendered useless a few years ago, but now they're back on the scheme?
 

DeletedUser23737

Hi Fellow dueling enthusiasts,

I really want a place to share my thoughts on the recent changes to dueling. I haven't really worried about the past changes because I could find ways around them to still enjoy the West experience.

I know there's three core elements to playing the West: questing (which involves jobbing), fort fighting and dueling. Take away one element... and the West experience is less somehow. Think about it... a world with no dueling? or with no fort battles. Would it be the same? Not imo.

The point behind the latest 10% min motivation effort is to increase every duelers duel level? so over time workers and fort fighters will be able to play this game without being dueled?

Well... the reality is simple: Duel players will start to win 10 duels to get the xp and then they will equip the bible and lose 30 duels. This will mean resistant builds will be favoured as it can better handle the losses. Duel records (wins vrs loss records) will no longer be a source of pride. So the world will see a very one dimensional dueling playing field.

Honour duels? With skill buying, how can a player seriously pick duels that will give honour points with hidden aspects such as this? Well, they can't.

Possible solutions:

Erase the duel level. It is actually an out-dated feature. Skill buying scuppered it. (Eg: A lev 80 player with a duel level of 140 can now duel a lev 130 player (d/l 150) who has bought 20 levels of skills... and this is supposed to test the lev 80's duel ability?).

Instead any level player can duel +20 levels or -20 levels.

Make fort fighting and dueling skills compatible.
Leadership becomes shooting or vigor, stamina become toughness, hiding becomes reflex. (dodging and aim remain the same :p) Why? A town now has many more players who can enjoy two aspects of the game (dueling and forting).

New feature: Sheriffs. Sheriffs are nominated players of a town who defend the citizens of their town. (Can be done much like a founders/councilors hat feature). When a duel is initiated against a town member, if they are within a certain vicinity of their town, then the duel gets enacted on the closest sheriff (is based on player level however). If there is no available sheriff (sleeping or KO'd)... then the town member gets to face their own duel. (Hence why making fort skills and duel skills compatible).

What might this feature mean? 1) Workers can be dedicated to their field of choice (helping their town) and know there is a nearby sheriff who will defend them against attacks.
2) Duelers/Soldiers who are Sheriffs will become a vital feature of a town's prosperity.

Any thoughts on this?
 
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