Limit the Health Skill

[DeletedUser]

I have afew questions and then solutions, without changing the HP in battles.
First question 's was soldiers HP bonus included before or after forts were added to the game ?
2nd. Q.) When the formula was changed for fort battles was that before or after the level cap was removed ?

Solution's : So the above questiosn aren't really important though instead of changing the HP in anyway why not change the formula of the other 5 skills, to increase slightly the hits to dodge ratio. Still have it capped. Just increase it's value depending on what AP/SP players have. This way HP wont be so important and over powering, players with alot in leadership, aim, hidding, stamina and dodge will be hitting more on pure tanks and dodging more against pure tanks as for the rest of the players it wont change afew, not a god dam thing. As their aim and odge will increase too
Your still see tanks around 5-6k though should kill off the 10k plus, sorry all, personally I like you monsters

Sometimes you need to think outside the box and -Neo- your right

 

[DeletedUser]

I think a lot of people have wondered for a long time, why the fort battle skills played such a limited role in fort battle success. The general consensus for why they made it like that was that the developers wanted to make fort battles so that players of all levels could take part in a meaningful way. If they changed it so that fort battle skills had a lot more impact on your chance to hit and dodge that would help with somethings, but it would make it so the lower level players struggled a lot more.

The problem that we face now is that everyone knows that fort battle skills don't help all that much in battles. So, we get people pumping loads of points into health, since HP has a much bigger impact on battles. This results really ends up resulting in the very thing the developers seemed to be trying to avoid. Lower level players, and players without very high HPs become worth very little in a battle. So, the battle really becomes more about the smaller number of high HP players, and the role of other players is minimal.

Drastically changing the impact of fort battle skills on a battle will only change the reason why the players that are not built purely for forts have little impact (and little fun). If you asked me a year or so ago, I would have said it should be changed so that the fort battle skills make a lot more of a difference in the battle (and I still think they should have a little more impact), but now I don't think that is the main solution. It would not allow lower level or more casual fort battlers much chance in battles.

I think the best way to do this is a soft cap like Elmyr suggested. All other fort battle (and duel) skills have diminishing returns. In fact leadership, aim, etc. all have such quickly diminishing returns that they don't have much of an impact on the battles. So, HP should also have diminishing return.

People that have gone heavy on health get the short end of the stick a little bit, but it's not much different from when they changed the resistance calculation so that there was a cap on how much you could reduce the damage.

If they really want battles to be something that all players can take part in in a meaningful way, it seems like setting up a diminishing HP return on the health skill is the best way to do this.

 

[DeletedUser24989]

lol this is horrible....if your idea happens, then other classes will get a better chance of killing soldiers...no

 

[DeletedUser9470]

kayak is so right.
to make everyone enjoy FBs inno have made it so that skills dont count.

one solution would be to make fort battle skills completely obsolete as well as HP.
everyone is attributed same amount of HP. the only variation would be with the different weapons.
this would make things a lot simpler for everyone. and would for sure motivate EVERYONE to attend them...

another solution would be to make different fort fights for different levels.
small FBs can only be attended by players below level 40 (as an example)

Maybe there are other solutions? I just dont feel limiting HP is the right thing to do.
I would much rather my proper FB stats count than HP.

Lower levels being slaughtered isnt that much of an issu as it would only motivate them in leveling up and quite frankly getting 500 xp atlow level is still better than any job...

Ill stick with making FB SPs more valuable.

 

[DeletedUser22493]

Yeah, Kayak is right. If skill points counted more, lower levels would be slaughterd.
A cap on the HP seems like the best solution.

I still think that those with a special interest in fort battles, should be able to become "pure fortfighters" by skill, and have a general advantage over those who doesn't.
Perhaps just the ability to get better rewards and exp?

 

[DeletedUser]

There is no such thing as "pure fortfighter". Never was, never will be.
You don't believe me? Find a player who never did a job or a quest or a duel in his lifetime - but does only fort fights.
By skill? He has aim, dodge, health, vigor and toughness... Sorry, but I see a melee resistance duelist there. Oh look, he has a construction skill high = a potentional builder.
He doesn't have anything except all AP in STR and all SP in HP? Then it's pure HP player. But again it's not "pure fort fighter". And this idea is not about penalizing fort fighters, pure or unpure. But about capping pure HP.

 

[DeletedUser]

Terrible idea. Im a pure HP on world 1 , it took me a while to re-skill and a lot of cash , my bank is now $0. i didnt skill just to get it thrown back in my face

If the Hp was capped i may as well restart world 1.

 

[DeletedUser]

Terrible idea. Im a pure HP on world 1 , it took me a while to re-skill and a lot of cash , my bank is now $0. i didnt skill just to get it thrown back in my face

If the Hp was capped i may as well restart world 1.

But maybe if it would be capped your skills would be reset and you can re-assign your skills put into HP into other skills, that would be a good solution for you and your skills and $$$ would not go into waste.

 

[DeletedUser]

Proposal

1. Every other fort and dueling skill has diminishing returns, and health should be no different. If we're saying 4k is a reasonable limit for a non-soldier, then you should still be able to go pure health, but you won't get 10 hp per health point beyond that, or just use a curve of some sort, so a very small about of SP gives you more than 10 hp per SP. (Elmyr)
   • Make an exponential HP scale, like HP a * x^b, where x is the amount of SP in health, and a,b are some numbers to be determined. That will treat health like any other fort skill. (Galen - added to Elmyr's post)
2. At the moment it adds 10 health per skill point, dropping that to 6, 7 or 8 could work. (LadyGaga)

1) Any adventurer with 4000 HP is way superior than a soldier with 4000-5000 HP. So I don't like that idea.

2) This would only solve the problem for fort battles. What about the dueling aspect of the game? With the introduction of golden weapons it became very difficult for ranged duelers who are not soldiers to do more than 2 duels in a row. You would have to separate dueling HP and fort fighting HP.

EDIT: Alternatively, you can lower the damage of all dueling weapons.

 

[DeletedUser]

You would have to separate dueling HP and fort fighting HP.

I love the sound of that. Have 1 dueling HP and still start a fort battle with full fort HP.

 

[DeletedUser9470]

I love the sound of that. Have 1 dueling HP and still start a fort battle with full fort HP.

im not so sure about that, it would take away the pre battle duelling which is a very important feature, all duellers would go fort battling instead and i think its important to keep that balance.

 

[DeletedUser]

im not so sure about that, it would take away the pre battle duelling which is a very important feature, all duellers would go fort battling instead and i think its important to keep that balance.

Like real fort fighters are duelable before a battle. We're KOed or sleeping. I hate that strategy, if you can't win a battle in a battle you don't deserve forts.

 

[DeletedUser]

Like real fort fighters are duelable before a battle. We're KOed or sleeping. I hate that strategy, if you can't win a battle in a battle you don't deserve forts.

And if you can't do that you just ask the owners to join your side and kick the other town out who build the fort and defended it twice against you right Elmyr ?
http://www.westforts.com/en4/battles/battle/10427
http://www.westforts.com/en4/battles/battle/10471

Don't make me laugh, dueling before battles is gentlemen like compared to your dirty alliance tricks. :laugh::laugh::laugh:
maybe your on the wrong side Elmyr or are you saying one thing on here and doing another ingame ? Enjoy your stinking fort won without a battle !!!

 

[DeletedUser22575]

I love the sound of that. Have 1 dueling HP and still start a fort battle with full fort HP.

im not so sure about that, it would take away the pre battle duelling which is a very important feature, all duellers would go fort battling instead and i think its important to keep that balance.

Like real fort fighters are duelable before a battle. We're KOed or sleeping. I hate that strategy, if you can't win a battle in a battle you don't deserve forts.

What? Now you want to separate HP's between fort fighting and dueling and if players got dueled they could still start a fort fight with full HP's.

Unbelievable. Dueling was a part of this game long before fort fighting became a part of this game, and when fort fighting came along pre fort fighting duels to drop HP's became a part of it as you well know.

Now you essentially want to make fort fighters some elite little niche where if they do get dueled before a fort fight it does not effect them.

What elitism.

And anyone who goes to a fort fight is a real fort fighter..not some poser.

Just because someone does not use the same playing style or methods that you do, or wish to do something in the game like work before a fort fight does not make them any less "real" than anyone else, and once again here is that elitism mantra showing up..." if you can't win a battle in a battle you don't deserve forts."

I have been viewing this thread for a few days trying to make my mind up on it, and thanks for the help, you convinced me.

I am a premmie player (soldier) and the way HP's are set up in the game is something I pay for.

So..NO Change to HP's for fort fighting.

After all...if your a real fort fighter you can learn to adapt to the HP tanks, especially with the GG stacking bonus gone. And if you can't, to use your own words, if you can't win the battles you just don't deserve the forts.

 

[DeletedUser]

What? Now you want to separate HP's between fort fighting and dueling and if players got dueled they could still start a fort fight with full HP's.

I thought it was obvious that was a joke.

Edit: And by "real fort fighter", I meant people who's primary interest in the game is fort battles. By your definition, in which anyone who's ever been in one is a fort fighter, everyone becomes a dueler the moment they duel Jules.

 

[DeletedUser]

They should make HP *****s suffer at fort battles, anything above 6k HP means you can't move more than one square per round. You wanna be target practise accept your designation!

 

[DeletedUser22493]

They should make HP *****s suffer at fort battles, anything above 6k HP means you can't move more than one square per round. You wanna be target practise accept your designation!

You really hate them, dont you?

 

[DeletedUser]

They should make HP *****s suffer at fort battles, anything above 6k HP means you can't move more than one square per round. You wanna be target practise accept your designation!

- 1 REP
&
Don't hate the player , hate the game !!!!

 

[DeletedUser]

They should make HP *****s suffer at fort battles, anything above 6k HP means you can't move more than one square per round. You wanna be target practise accept your designation!

Yes well, you're forgetting that HP monster is in front - and when his HP drops to a certain point he swaps with someone behind him.
So this suggestion you gave would make forts impossible to nick as would hurt only the attacking side.

 

[DeletedUser16002]

They should make HP *****s suffer at fort battles, anything above 6k HP means you can't move more than one square per round. You wanna be target practise accept your designation!

The username says it all really...