Rejected Limit Questline 48 hr KO or stop it alltogether

[DeletedUser]

Get rid of it! Let the hawks feast

 

[HelenBack]

I agree with Good Feather on this one, the KO system is fine with me.

The aggressive build duelers/soldiers use the hotel to sleep tons of hours so they can escape being dueled because their defense is weak. I don't see this 48 hour KO tactic any different, it's a similar tactic.

Whoa! How is that a similar tactic?

If a dueler/soldier sleeps for "tons of hours"...

• Can they duel? No.
• Can they do quests? No.
• Can they take part in fort battles? No.
• Can they gather fort building supplies? No.
• Can they work jobs for cash and XP? No.

If any player uses a quest KO...

• Can they duel? No. (but that's what they want anyways)
• Can they do quests? Yes.
• Can they take part in fort battles? Yes.
• Can they gather fort building supplies? Yes.
• Can they work jobs for cash and XP? Yes.

That is hardly the same tactic... The only thing the sleepy fighters can do is NPC duels for a bit of XP and cash... Hardly worth staying in bed for.

I agree with Vic... Quest KOs have to be fixed. Easiest way is to just make them like NPC duels. 8 hours sleep (or 6 hours if you have a large built fort) and you're back in the game. How hard can that be?

Don't wanna be dueled? Leave town for your quest/job/reskill/whatever... Then rejoin when you're ready. So, you'll have to pay for a Hotel room while you're out of town... Either that or stay in town and take a chance on being dueled. Or you could go join a quiet little town on the edge of the map.

I can understand doing the Quest KO once in a while... But way too many people have taken advantage of that loophole for far too long. I've never Quest KO'd on purpose... I have slept in town for many hours because I was dealing with town issues and didn't have time to set my character up for something before running to work... But I didn't get any cash or XP from sleeping.

 

[DeletedUser]

i did not read page # 2,

let me just throw a question at all of you who want this to happen,

what about using NPC players @ duel to get KO?

and

what about those medals who have already achieved by using the quest KO system and fare play to those who want to get those medals?

-----------
answering those Q, the first one is my main point second is to back it you if first fails since this game is about having fun and playing fare. if you want to close NPC dueling also that is just ridicules. if i was a mod of this forum i would have deleted this right at the sec i seen it not lock it just delete it.

 

[DeletedUser16008]

i did not read page # 2,

let me just throw a question at all of you who want this to happen,

what about using NPC players @ duel to get KO?

You just lose all your hp and energy currently and go back to the hotel for 8 hrs there is NO 48 pass like there is with Quest NPC duels so no protection for the next few days... try reading the entire thread to understand the point is to bring uniformity to ALL NPC duels. Also it would not affect the ability to gain the medals if the 48 hr pass was abolished.

 

[DeletedUser]

I agree that you should make it only 8 hours for quests but 48 hours if you get dueled

 

[DeletedUser]

I am surprised we are getting negative feedback from moderators on this one. Again I don't want the change from a dueler point of view, but instead from the fact we are dealing with a loophole. It's not a balance in game, it's not a bonus or an intended feature. It has nothing to do with sleeping in a hotel for 23 hours a day. It's a way to exploit the game quite similar to pushing. There are no downsides to KO'ing yourself through those quests, since you reap the advantages of *everything* and stay protected forever. This is similar to the "people can choose if they can be dueled" idea, yet it was shot down many times while suggested.

Regardless of medals this KOs should simply not do anything to send a player into 48 hours of protection.

 

[DeletedUser23701]

Privillege to be in town gives you what:
* duels
* fort fights
* build town/forts
* ... ?
the rest you can do out of town

Quest duel is easiest way to hide from duelers, but there are other ways.
* duel some one until you drop
Fort fighters or non combative will try to loose on purpose what can be classified as push. Fort fighters want to be on safe side, that full HP comes to fort fight, so it's option for them or will sleep more or stay at fort fight and will be out of range.
* more townless players, as except fort fighters, most will choose easiest way to stay out of town.

What will it give:
* more complains about duels from non duelers and more townless players
* it's already hard to get people to work for fort items and townless players most likely will work on their own
* town players will have to work for cash to build and fort items
read: having no ADV in towns most likely will cause more issues
* fort needs items right away, not after 2w when someone will decide to come to drop some items and cash

That's how I see it.

I'd say that newest worlds have less and less duelers. And more fort fighters.
And I'm pretty sure that quest/work doers use premium features more than people who like to duel in average.

I see where you go with your idea.
I'd say simple idea but it might cause some serious impact on gameplay and fun for non duelers and for Inno, as people will get bored sooner by staying out of town.

Another fact is that town/allliance can't protect against duels effectively.
You can pick target and duel even if 100 players are around.
In real life aka West world it'd not be possible.

Any other proposals how to stay safe and out of duels if you don't want them?
* organize duel tournaments so duelers can decide who is da best
* premium feature
* some kind of bodyguard, and if you challenge some ADV, in fact you'll have to duel his/her bodyguard first, or 2
* protection when same town/alliance members are near

 

[DeletedUser]

i did not read page # 2,

let me just throw a question at all of you who want this to happen,

what about using NPC players @ duel to get KO?

and

what about those medals who have already achieved by using the quest KO system and fare play to those who want to get those medals?

if you read page 2 you would have seen my post I got this medal from just dying 50 times or more in fort fights, I've never taken a dive in a NPC fight, so unluck believe this medal isn't only for NPC K.O it's for all K.O's.

No Victories without sacrifices (Bronze)So stop slagging off this medal as a coward / pointless medal :laugh: im thinking of deleting that account now !
I died in battle i'll find the actualy report.

 

[DeletedUser]

Privillege to be in town gives you what:
* duels
* fort fights
* build town/forts
* ... ?
the rest you can do out of town

No, you summarized it in a way that it will seem insignificant. Offensive dueling aside, being a member of a town is everything in this game. Fort fights are a great addition to the game, not something you can list as a star(*). The same goes for building up towns. Towns are the backbone of the game. In a town you get to have access to a bank with little fees. The outside banking comes with a 20% fee and even though your cash cannot be stolen through duels, you can still lose it from an injury or if there is a bounty on your head. In a town you get a free hotel to rest in, while out of town you have to pay $250 daily, sometimes twice a day to get your energy back up. The shops are 4 times more expensive while townless. And even though there is the market now it's still cheaper and less time consuming to buy items from your own shops. After all not everyone has a leveled up character with a lot of cash in hand, especially when you begin playing. You are unable to post bounties. Also I have always considered being part of a town as being part of a community. The "social" connections in the towns and with other towns keep the game running.

I have nothing against players knocking out themselves using real people. They need energy and time for the process, and gain a worse dueling record. Actually I think this is considered some sort of push dueling in the rules.

Just because a bug is fixed does not mean people will leave their towns and start buying less premium. Also dueling characters buy just as much premium as non dueling characters.

Towns and alliances can protect themselves, if they are not huggers and quantity players. If they are too lame to find proper duelers to defend them, then the game shouldn't be doing it for them. Every towns has workers, adventurers, fort fighters, duelers/soldiers. The dueling people should be used as proper firepower. It's only right that if the duelers of a towns suck, the town will suck itself.

This is a bug, game flaw, loophole, a feature to exploit. No one can prove it otherwise, since it's too blatant. Fixing it won't cause a worldwide catastrophe of the game, causing players to leave town, stop buying premium and delete their characters. It will simply correct a present mistake.

 

[DeletedUser]

As you all know I'm ignoring the author of the first post in this thread (visible in my sig).
But that forum option is not perfect so I see the thread title that says this:
"Limit Questline 48 hr KO or stop it alltogether"

Well... Based on that...
Author is not very experienced in this game obviously. If he was experienced he'd know from this thread The Roadmap! that there is a plan of duel system changes which includes this:

Health points and dying chances
Players hurt themselves more often and worse during work. Duels also cost more health points. Passing out will be weakened a bit. Energy will not be lowered as much, the duel block will be lifted.

Reasons:

• More excitement during work
• Use of food and healing elixiers

So as in another thread today where the author didn't read The Roadmap - no and 1 star.


I've also checked other posts that I do actually see.... Just a few comments on those...

1. There are hard NPC duels in the game (Scott, Lucas, Art Collector) and if you're not specced for duels you won't win them that easy. Only the account owner has the right to try to win those duels when he wants to. Noone else has the right to determine when will someone try to win a duel against a NPC. The nondueling player would be utterly stupid to try to duel Lucas for example over and over if his energy is full.

2. Make a suggestion to open a new world without jobs, without forts and with limitless duels. So, you go there and do duels all day long. I'd say forget it happening. Why would that fail? You won't get adventurers and workers there, and no questing and jobbing means no need for many nugget options.

This is a bug, game flaw, loophole, a feature to exploit. No one can prove it otherwise, since it's too blatant. Fixing it won't cause a worldwide catastrophe of the game, causing players to leave town, stop buying premium and delete their characters. It will simply correct a present mistake.

3. It is not a bug but is intended. How can you believe that devs didn't add that because of HPtanks fort fighters?
Fixing this nonexisting bug, in fact changing this feature under existing duel system will cause town leaving, acc deleting and premiums that dueling players don't use would get useless. I don't think Inno managers are that stupid.

 

[DeletedUser22575]

As you all know I'm ignoring the author of the first post in this thread (visible in my sig).
But that forum option is not perfect so I see the thread title that says this:
"Limit Questline 48 hr KO or stop it alltogether"

Well... Based on that...
Author is not very experienced in this game obviously. If he was experienced he'd know from this thread The Roadmap! that there is a plan of duel system changes which includes this:
So as in another thread today where the author didn't read The Roadmap - no and 1 star.


I've also checked other posts that I do actually see.... Just a few comments on those...

1. There are hard NPC duels in the game (Scott, Lucas, Art Collector) and if you're not specced for duels you won't win them that easy. Only the account owner has the right to try to win those duels when he wants to. Noone else has the right to determine when will someone try to win a duel against a NPC. The nondueling player would be utterly stupid to try to duel Lucas for example over and over if his energy is full.

2. Make a suggestion to open a new world without jobs, without forts and with limitless duels. So, you go there and do duels all day long. I'd say forget it happening. Why would that fail? You won't get adventurers and workers there, and no questing and jobbing means no need for many nugget options.


3. It is not a bug but is intended. How can you believe that devs didn't add that because of HPtanks fort fighters?
Fixing this nonexisting bug, in fact changing this feature under existing duel system will cause town leaving, acc deleting and premiums that dueling players don't use would get useless. I don't think Inno managers are that stupid.

First off Victor is not inexperienced as you well know. You just used this as an opportunity to take a cheap shot at him, just like you put anyone who disagrees with your opinion consistently on ignore.

As far as the Roadmap goes those statements don't mean much. They are vague, we don't know when they will happen, or if they will ever happen.

And you state that " Noone else has the right to determine when will someone try to win a duel against a NPC. The nondueling player would be utterly stupid to try to duel Lucas for example over and over if his energy is full."

Your correct no one has the right to determine when they try and win.

But the fact they try constantly over and over to loose on purpose is a different story.

And we understand your position on this quite clearly. It is well know that you self ko for days on end and recommend it to other players and your town mates.

Any other proposals how to stay safe and out of duels if you don't want them?
* organize duel tournaments so duelers can decide who is da best
* premium feature
* some kind of bodyguard, and if you challenge some ADV, in fact you'll have to duel his/her bodyguard first, or 2
* protection when same town/alliance members are near

Uh...we could start with...don't join a game that dueling is a key part of if you don't want to duel.

But seriously Mezonis..what your post does indicate is this is self ko'ing to be more common in the future...to the point that in new world dueling will be almost dead because of this and fort fighting will be prominent.

Now I know you from TW and I know you are a reasonable guy even if you don't remember me from there. And even you have to admit I think that a game developed the way this one was with dueling a large part of it being changed to where dueling will be a thing of the past because of self ko's shows there is a flaw here.

The organized duels you suggested don't do anything to alleviate the problem. I don't know what your referring to by the premmie fixture. The bodyguard has already been discussed and shot down....

But the Roadmap does supposedly contain the ability for town members and allies to fire one shot back if they are in the area. And part of the problem is the way things do get added...in bits and pieces. When spot dueling was added this should have been added at the same time and it might have done something to have alleviated part of the dueling "problem" in the eyes of the "non duelers" instead of "self ko'ing" becoming the new standard.

But here is my question:

You take a town of fort fighters, etc, who are not a "dueling town".

You are going to loose duels. Your town points for duels are going to reflect that. Your morgue is going to reflect that.

But if you are not dueling and self ko'ing your town points for dueling are going to reflect that also.

No matter which choice you make you (players) are going to get ko'd because of the way they have distributed their points (their choice). They are going to loose their ep and Hp's.

So why not team up and fight back. You still get ko'd, your town points will still be about the same for dueling, and what do fort towns care about morgue stats anyhow. At least you have the potential to hurt or even ko your opponent that way.

And you are still participating to a limited degree in the dueling that is a part of the game instead of trying to kill it off.

 

[DeletedUser]

To the an unnamed poster who very extensively practice the hide behind the npc KO and instruct his entire town to do the same:
The road map is not a commitment or a guarantee that anything will be done.A road map is simply an outline,a set of ideas that have a reasonable chance of being implemented.There is very little need to climb on the Road map high horses.
There are plenty of other holy books we can go worship besides the road map.LOL

Therefore,until and unless there is a firm commitment that it will happen the OP proposal is valid.

Fort-fighters are having a profound effect on enemy towns by creating a hostile base at their doorstep. Duelers need to be able to get back at them.....and they cant if the fort-fighters are permanently and forever KO'ed by the npc abuse/unintended feature.

 

[DeletedUser23701]

No, you summarized it in a way that it will seem insignificant.

ofc fort fights are great addition and without towns, game would become not so exciting.

b00k, I pointed out what you can do while being in town only, sorry if it looks insignificant after all.

Why there is no more points from me.
(as you don't like stars, I'll mark points with - )
- you can bank with nuggets not being in town and even paying 20% (16% for WOR) fee, you've 80% left compared to 0 and found yourself sleeping in town
- as ADV I can sleep lvl 4 hotel for free, and when you become bigger, even $250 to sleep is cheeper than constantly loose from duels
- you've NPC market, on market you can buy any item from shops
on Briscoe I completed Gentlemen set while none of towns had tailor lvl 9, just because NPC market gave me all needed items + stick from quest
- bounty, well, what the point to put bounty on non dueler???
- social connection, well, you can still use tele, county chat, forum, or any other outside chat

For me it's not an option to move out of town, just because I don't want to be dueled.
As you said, town is backbone of this game.

Is it possible to agree about some compromise between duelers and non duelers?
I know, I can't please to all, but compare, how many % from all wants to be dueled?

 

[DeletedUser23701]

TJ, TW was simple: rim or be rimmed, no other options.

West

Discover new lands and experience exciting adventures and duels!

Yes, duels are part of game, same as adventures and fort fights.
hehe, even quest duels and as you can see, all are exciting duels.

I understand what this topic is about, same way roadmap promise no deadlines.
In long term you'll loose if only improve duel excitements.

Game will become like on older worlds, where no one cares about duels.

Sorry if I took non dueler position, I just want to make balance in discussing this topic. Most likely lot of great ideas will come out to think about.
Just at least try to understand other side.

 

[DeletedUser22575]

TJ, TW was simple: rim or be rimmed, no other options.

West

Yes, duels are part of game, same as adventures and fort fights.
hehe, even quest duels and as you can see, all are exciting duels.

I understand what this topic is about, same way roadmap promise no deadlines.
In long term you'll loose if only improve duel excitements.

Game will become like on older worlds, where no one cares about duels.

Sorry if I took non dueler position, I just want to make balance in discussing this topic. Most likely lot of great ideas will come out to think about.
Just at least try to understand other side.

I do try to understand the other side.

And I am a firm believer that the Dueler, Adventurer, and Worker classes need to be improved. Supposedly the Dueler class is being improved.

But unfortunately too many don't seem to understand that improvement does not mean they can't have all of the benefits of their class and be the equal of soldier/duelers also when it comes to dueling.

They expect for their to be improvements that will allow them to be the equal of those specifically built for dueling while they make the choice to assign their skill points for "pure builds"

In other words they want their class benefits plus to be able to win when dueling. Anything else is not good enough and they are being "victimized".

 

[DeletedUser16008]

As you all know I'm ignoring the author of the first post in this thread (visible in my sig).
But that forum option is not perfect so I see the thread title that says this:
"Limit Questline 48 hr KO or stop it alltogether"

Well... Based on that...
Author is not very experienced in this game obviously. If he was experienced he'd know from this thread The Roadmap! that there is a plan of duel system changes which includes this:

Health points and dying chances
Players hurt themselves more often and worse during work. Duels also cost more health points. Passing out will be weakened a bit. Energy will not be lowered as much, the duel block will be lifted.

Reasons:

• More excitement during work
• Use of food and healing elixiers

So as in another thread today where the author didn't read The Roadmap - no and 1 star.


I've also checked other posts that I do actually see.... Just a few comments on those...

1. There are hard NPC duels in the game (Scott, Lucas, Art Collector) and if you're not specced for duels you won't win them that easy. Only the account owner has the right to try to win those duels when he wants to. Noone else has the right to determine when will someone try to win a duel against a NPC. The nondueling player would be utterly stupid to try to duel Lucas for example over and over if his energy is full.

2. Make a suggestion to open a new world without jobs, without forts and with limitless duels. So, you go there and do duels all day long. I'd say forget it happening. Why would that fail? You won't get adventurers and workers there, and no questing and jobbing means no need for many nugget options.


3. It is not a bug but is intended. How can you believe that devs didn't add that because of HP tanks fort fighters?
Fixing this nonexisting bug, in fact changing this feature under existing duel system will cause town leaving, acc deleting and premiums that dueling players don't use would get useless. I don't think Inno managers are that stupid.

Well unlike the above poster im not so petty and childish as to stick my fingers in my ear and shout "lalalala I cant hear you" when people say things I dont like yet still attempt to engage in a thread when its clear only 50% of the debate is visible :whistle: Nevertheless let me answer some of those points even tho my response wont be seen.

1. I don't worship the ground the roadmap walks upon like some and have been around more than long enough to know things rarely pan out as it suggests.

2. Someone cant read half these posts so has no clue what is actually being discussed and why having no full picture.

3. Said poster is one of the constant abusers of this system so knows very well the benefits and actually quite likes to boast about it which about says it all.

4. If the above poster had been around from long before forts like I have he would know the Quest KO has been around since the beginning and not an intended loophole re forts etc

5. Since forts have arrived every single world has shifted towards them and away from dueling which is fine to a point .... new worlds however since the new prem and dueling changes have swung extensively towards forts as the preferred conflict part of the game.

The 48 hr quest KO encourages this and offers a cop out of being dueled yet enjoy every other aspect and benefit unhindered.

Bottom line is if you think this is fair and proper your not understanding this game always had a trade off of things you could do or not do or be good at... since the introduction of prem features that has been to some extent taken away and the 48 Quest KO does similar yet costs nothing..

If your in a town you should not be able to have all benefits as have been stated before so how about this as a compromise, offer players a 48 hr prem no duel feature or something similar say a week or something ?

If players really wish not to be dueled yet have all the town benefits at least make them pay for it.

 

[DeletedUser22575]

I would have no objections to a premmie pay for no duel option.

More money for future developments and they pay for the protection and benefits they receive from it.

 

[DeletedUser23701]

yeah, let's implement premium for all kind of staff.
- to duel someone for next 48h (sorry, just taking other side )
doesn't matter that you get KOed and have NAP for next 48h and can't attack
- to do quests
....

Anyway, it's not a crime to know how the game works.

Actually it comes as benefit for player, if he/she knows how to play it and how game works.
How to invest skills for duels, fort fights, as it's not documented well and you can build your knowledge only based on experience.
Same way for jobs, buildings towns/forts, for quests, etc, different calculations, quest id scanning, info exchange, etc.

Offtopic
I think we should re do dueling level calculation.
Remove dueling motivation as with roadmap NAP will be lifted.
Or make dueling level based on win/loose difference as for non duelers it'll be below 0.

 

[DeletedUser]

Like this, know allot of players that wont.

I'll just leave town when respecc-ing for questicles.

 

[Deleted User - 1278415]

Has this horse been beaten enough?? We now have 2 KO ideas and I've received 3 messages today asking for me to close one of them... so why not send this one to be voted on while we allow TJ's to be discussed.

Vic let me know if you think its done and ready to be considered.