Rejected Limit Questline 48 hr KO or stop it alltogether

Discussion in 'Development Discussions' started by Victor Kruger, Nov 13, 2010.

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Shall the 48hr KO from a Questline be modified?

Poll closed Dec 1, 2010.
  1. Yes

    149 vote(s)
    56.7%
  2. NO

    114 vote(s)
    43.3%
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  1. Victor Kruger

    Victor Kruger Well-Known Member

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    VOTING:
    Going to a vote no more changes are allowed to post #1 for 2 weeks.
    After 2 weeks if the poll receives more than 80.00% of the vote it will be shipped off to the developers to decide its fate.

    Thanks.
    Good Feather





    Proposal

    Limit the amount of times a player can use a quest KO to "hide" in game, preferrably stop it altogether.

    Current Workaround

    As players take part in the fort battle and wish to be a part of a town it is becoming increasingly popular to abuse the Questline KO option also once lvl 99 to stay "safe" and even while respeccing to quest in peace while staying in town and getting all the benefits it brings.
    At present anyone, especially fort fighters have a free hand to wander from fort to fort and stay safe from dueling etc by Quest KO every 48 hrs while enjoying all town benefits. People should not be allowed to abuse this loophole indefinitely, it unbalances the gameplay..


    Details

    REMOVE 48hrs quest KO all together and treat it just like other NPC duels

    I realize restricting the amount of times a Quest NPC may not be practical so in order to make it available to do as many times as is needed to win its probably better to do away with the 48 safety pass altogether

    Abuse Prevention

    I really see no way especially if the Quest KO is done away with that players can continue to abuse this loophole.

    Summary

    The game allows you to build whatever toon you wish including a pure hp or fort fighter which is all fine, however the present protection on a permanent basis from dueling and also Bounties etc is not the way Quest KO was intended and has become a norm on some worlds.

    It is high time this was addressed, you wish to be involved in a town progress and forts ? Then you should also have all of the considerations that normal members have to deal with, that includes being open to being dueled. If you wish not to be dueled there is a simple answer the devs included and thats to leave town.

    It is not right that in theory a whole town can run around Quest KO indefinitely and be free to do as they wish with absolutely no risk whatsoever yet gain all of the benefits a town brings... Its having your cake and eating it which is not the way things were intended to be im sure.

    Do away with the Quest 48 safety pass altogether

    Administration
    Does this idea meet the Ideas Guidelines & Criteria? Yes/No
    Is this idea appear on any of the Previously Suggested Ideas List? Yes/No
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 17, 2010
    ag3352 and -Neo- like this.
  2. Good Feather

    Good Feather Well-Known Member

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    Vic of all people to suggest this.

    Quest KO... is going to stay. The Devs put a medal in for it. Yellow belly medal I believe. Hard to believe but some people in the west would avoid duels or find ways to be smarter than the dueler approaching go watch "BTTF 3"

    So your saying to restrict the #KO's for a quest since they cant beat a quest dueler so you can duel them some more too? Does the quest just cancel itself so they now loose out on ability points so they stay weak and beatable for you. gee should we just give you some cake too, here let me put a little cherry on top for Mr Kruger, oops you missed some icing ah there ya go.

    As a worker on 4/5 the worlds... Ive done my share of quest ko's its keeps you lot at bay until you hopefully get bored and move on or until I forget about my 48 hour naptime.

    I'll be nice today and leave this open, and see what the masses say. If after a week i see some postive feedback I'll let it goto vote.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2010
  3. TJ Tuttle

    TJ Tuttle Well-Known Member

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    There is a difference between using this quest to ko yourself to protect yourself at time and there is nothing wrong with doing so.

    However that is a different story from using the quest ko to ko yourself routinely every 48 hours for weeks on end.

    The players doing so are reaping all of the advantages of being in a town and they are able to safely attend fort fights, doing jobs, and do other quests with no risk.

    While the Devs might have done a medal for this I would think there should be a possible compromise here.

    Any player doing a quest ko should not be able to accept that quest again for say...4 days after their ko ends.
     
  4. b00k

    b00k Guest

    I have to agree that's a loophole that is largely exploited. Even though there is a medal for KOs it's still playing with the system. As a dueling soldier I have never had problems with anyone self knocking out themselves, but that's because I have entirely stopped dueling workers/adventurers.

    Still keeping all the in-town advantages and the protection of being out of town is a game flaw. It should be fixed.
     
  5. Victor Kruger

    Victor Kruger Well-Known Member

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    Why me of all people ?

    You surprise me GF Ive suggested it because its becoming the norm not the execption to the rule.

    Its always been there true but of late its gotton to a point that its being used ALL the time by some and that number is increasing. Its also why I suggested its probably not practical to restrict the amount of times but rather just send them back to the hotel.

    Was the quest KO intended to protect people from being dueled in game forever yet allow them to take part in forts, town building, questing etc while the rest play as it was intended ? i think not ... There is a difference at TJ says between utilizing it occasionally and using it all the time to exploit it and get all the benefits yet none of the risk.

    I too have use it on occasion with builds but only on occasion for a specific reason, its becoming clear that as usual with a loophole there are an ever increasing number of players willing to exploit it to the max.

    Look at it for what it is and be honest with yourself, its being abused by far too many for far too long...

    Is it right and proper that a town member eg a soldier fort fighter tank can use this to do as he wishes upset the balance of forts and leave no chance of being dueled or any risk whatsoever ?

    Or a player who has a bounty put on them avoids it forever just by staying quest KO ?

    How a about a town full of players doing this ? they are untouchable in duels and free to attack forts fully healthed up .. no way to get back at them no risk.. so others start doing the same thing etc ... pretty soon all fort fighters will be doing it and your left with what ?

    Yes it may be a surprise coming from me as i believe in balance and do not wish to suggest anything that has been around for so long to be changed ... yet it has to be said this is becoming an ever increasing problem especially for the use of fort fighting and bounties.
     
  6. Good Feather

    Good Feather Well-Known Member

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    Ok loophole/saftey how you look at it, well how do you purpose to fix it fairly? Honestly the players are being penalized already having to sleep for 8 hours to regain health to play for 40/48 hours now. How do you determine the players who are medal getters vs those who are doing it avoid big mean duelers.

    To limit the # of ko's I mean you cant say you only have 500 attempts to beat this 1 quest guy. After 500 then the mods get why cant I complete mr brown sober quest... I didnt know that after 500 ko's I wouldnt be able to complete it anymore. Then they move on to the next quest at the ghost town and loose 500 more times.

    There is no counter to let them keep track of it. 1000 ko's thats at least 2-3 years of play time they are going to avoid you still.
     
  7. Mezonis

    Mezonis Well-Known Member

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    omg, I can't believe, duelers start to whine about lack of 'easy' targets.
    Take an example from book.
     
  8. Berkie

    Berkie Guest

    What about keeping the quest KO metal and have the quest duel changed to 8 hours instead of 48, that way if it's a metal they are after, they can still get it, right?
     
  9. Mezonis

    Mezonis Well-Known Member

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    Oh now, let's give rest for 8h also for KO from duels as well.
    You had time to sleep and now ready to duel again.

    Or maybe let's remove Quests, they're not part of real West world.
     
  10. Victor Kruger

    Victor Kruger Well-Known Member

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    OK As ive stated before I dont suggest it should be fixed to stop the ability of completing the quest but why give a 48 hr pass at all ? you dont get it with NPC duels so why still with quests ?

    As you say its about being fair, why should perfectly reasonable players lets say workers etc play with the usual risk of getting dueled yet unreasonable ones stay safe should they choose to do so from lvl 1 through to lvl 99 WHILST in town with all the benefits of being a town member ? Personally id kick any member out for doing it all the time its not how the rule was intended to be used.

    Fast forward to where we are with forts ... a large number of soldiers/fort fighters are employing this trick and certainly using it more than workers ever did... so those builds get all of the benefits AND have a big influence on town standing/points yet are safe from any kind of attack.. this unbalances things quite a bit id say. All for the sole reason of wishing to be aggressive in forts with all the benefits yet avoiding duels which they know they would be subjected to if they didnt ...

    I can just picture the American cavalry saying ok boys no skirmishing or fighting or keeping the peace you stay safe and hide until we have a fort to defend then you can come on out to play.

    Mezonis you dont get the point at all do you ? it has nothing to do with easy targets and who said ( yet again ) that workers have to be a soft target at all ? its all in the points distribution. Change the record pls its broken

    yknow what ? I dont expect most players will wish to see a change as they all use it to their advantage increasingly especially fort fighters, its just sad that its becoming so widespread that players actually think its acceptable to use it all the time.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2010
  11. Victor Kruger

    Victor Kruger Well-Known Member

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    On that basis you would no doubt be happy to see NPC duels ending in a 48 hrs break too.

    i take it your a serial Quest KO then :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2010
  12. -Neo-

    -Neo- Banned

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    erm, most have realised that you do this when you are out of energy. so you dont loose time, in fact you gain a load of travel time.
    obviously you havent.
    like berkie said: bring the ko time down to 8 hours.
    period.

    imo its a way of getting round the system unfairly, and thus is a breach of rules:
    to be part of a town then you have to put up with the inconvenients to get the advantages...
    o no! not if you can cheat the system!
    bunch of benefit frauds!
    ive never been quest ko and never will voluntarily. its a matter of honour.

    Im surprised a mod would back up a way of cheating the system.

    Now that its officially ok to cheat can i give my hernando to my level 44 mate on w10?
     
  13. Good Feather

    Good Feather Well-Known Member

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    Listen up -NEO-, YOU AINT THE 1, so cool yer jets, I get to have a player opinion too. As I'm a player 1st and a mod 2nd. Watch your comments when twisting my words.. and saying I condone cheating, as I don't.

    Just because you see something as 1 way doesnt make your way the right way.

    As for the 48hr cool down I'm fine with it, it is a tactic. I think that people need some protection in a game and a way to send a camper back off them for 48hrs when they get knocked down too.

    As for fort battling I dont see it as tactic that is being abused. I see it as outsmarting the raiding party. Do you keep track of the mortician stats to truly know wheather the whole town is self ko'ing themselves on quests. That is genius that a town can get together as 1 and do self ko quests to avoid a raiding party. How many are in this town? 5? Try coordinating that with a town full of 30+ people to self ko themselves on a quest and still make the fort battle on time... it wont happen.
     
  14. -Neo-

    -Neo- Banned

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    i would be interested to get hellstromms opinion on this.
    in my world, called Planet Earth, taking advantage of a loophole is the same as cheating.
    Period.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2010
  15. Mezonis

    Mezonis Well-Known Member

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    Kruger, from your W12 profile I can only assume, that you are camper.
    Poor you, must be hard to run around map now.
    And yes, as non dueler I have quest duel.
    Anyway

    So far I heard complains from non duelers about being hit non stop.
    -> find simcity game
    Now, I hear complains from duelers having no easy targets.
    -> find shooter game

    Finally we found balance for both sides.
     
  16. Haha I must be the odd ball then :laugh:

    Can I just say this , if these are the medals your refering to as coward medals
    [​IMG][​IMG]No Victories without sacrifices (Bronze)Lose 50 NPC duels[​IMG][​IMG]I\m Used to This (Silver)Lose 250 NPC duels[​IMG][​IMG]Master of the underworld (Gold)Lose 500 NPC duels Then there is something seriously wrong, as I havn't once taken a dive to a NPC for this free passing of None dueling though I got the bronze medal for dying countless times in fort battles, if anything then I want a braviour medal :laugh: (the lose to 50 NPC been is wrong this info on west stats) it's just get K.O 50 times.

    You don't hear me crying my builder gets bashed up or my adventurer for that matter.
    And neither of them have any of the above medals.
    The one with the medal is my soldier :( oh the shame, though personally I'd like to see everyone GAME for dueling even townless folk :D
    I'd just like to add I havent dueled anyone for ages and actually won :( though I still think it's fun trying, win , lose or draw....not even possible :rolleyes: I dont know why I throwd that in there. I don't see why players should be able to use this exit, seems abit queer to me though each to there own I guess.

    (Still if this makes it to the voting stage it's a YES from me;))
     
    -Neo- likes this.
  17. Pedro Vasco

    Pedro Vasco Well-Known Member

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    Good Tactic

    I agree with Good Feather on this one, the KO system is fine with me.

    The aggressive build duelers/soldiers use the hotel to sleep tons of hours so they can escape being dueled because their defense is weak. I don't see this 48 hour KO tactic any different, it's a similar tactic.

    I have completed all the KO quests, so I cannot use the KO tactic.
    Since I am not an aggressive dueler/soldier build, I don't see the point in sleeping 23 hours a day,

    Back to hunting turkeys, I am preparing a feast for thanksgiving.
    Pedro
     
  18. Jouais

    Jouais Guest

    It's not a loophole. Otherwise, it'd be just like the NPC Duelers, where you don't get a 48 hour KO -- only lose your energy and health.

    If the time is shortened, fort battlers are only going to KO themselves more often. Many fort battlers just sit at forts, and rarely use all their energy. KOing themselves more often wouldn't affect much, especially since an energy refill at a fort only takes 6 hours -- not factoring any sleepyhead gear being switched around. Fort fighters would be slightly inconvenienced, but nothing they can't work around.

    First, we should allow for the bug to be fixed where you can be dueled at a fort after signing up. I'm sure quite a few in support of the limitations would be disappointed, with all the fort battlers sitting at forts getting hit by duelers.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 14, 2010
  19. TJ Tuttle

    TJ Tuttle Well-Known Member

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    Well, just call me old fashioned and confused.

    For some reason I seem to think that the developers created quest for players to complete for the rewards.

    Apparently I am wrong again. :laugh: It must be something like this new "modern math" i hear about where 2 + 2 does not equal 4.

    They created them so players could remove all gear and ko themselves repeatedly every 48 hours for days and weeks on end making no attempt to complete the quest.

    Now if i did that against another player I would get banned for push dueling.

    If I did that against a npc i would loose all energy and HP.

    But if I do it with a quest I get a KO and 48 hours of risk free time, and if I do it often enough with a quest I get a medal for it. Woot !!!!!!

    NO Goodfeather for you to be able to "outsmart" someone they have to had the opportunity to have done something to stop you.

    There is no opportunity here for the "raiding parties" to do anything. They quest KO...recover HP's..go work and fort fight, etc..rinse and repeat.

    The "raiding parties" have no ability to interact here with them at all.

    And contrary to what you might believe there are players doing this for days on end. There are black hats advising their players to do this on a constant and recurring basis. And this is going to become more common and adversely effect this game if it continues like this.

    Instead of towns where you have 6 or 7 members doing this you are going to have whole towns doing this...buying their items off of the market and town stores while building up towns, questing and working and never being at risk of being dueled, never at risk of a town war, etc.

    You will have entire "fort fighting towns" develop in the future using this tactic. Common sense tells you this will happen even more than it already is. Look at the profiles of those who already don't want to be dueled because they are "pure fort fighters" calling those who hit them "cowards" etc. This is the next logical step in this progression.

    The fact it is not like the NPC duels is the loophole.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2010
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  20. Victor Kruger

    Victor Kruger Well-Known Member

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    you have no idea what my profile means on w12 since its a private note to those that know me & not what you assume.:hmf:

    Im not suggesting a reduction in the 48 KO just that all NPC duels are the same, namely just a return to the hotel to be up after 8 hrs the same as other NPC dueling.

    Its not an acceptable tactic when its abusing the loophole indefinitely anymore than trading an item for extortionate amounts is an abiuse of trading or dueling with the intent to lose being a push duel... How is intending to constantly lose in a quest duel any different than a push duel ?

    Here are the current push duel rules which seem to have changed since i last checked.

    §6) Pushing Pushing refers to an exploitative use of ingame features to provide experience, cash, and/or items to other account(s). Specifically, a player may not participate in a prearranged duel, bounty, or market trade to provide and/or obtain inordinate amounts of experience points, items or ingame cash.

    Ohh i get it youve changed the rules where it used to state "losing a duel intentionally amounts to push dueling".. which currently makes quest KO legal as losing a duel intentionally is no longer the issue just if there is something to gain from it.

    Following that logic and rule then and using quest KO as a legitimate "tactic" as it does neither xp or cash etc as a reward there are other tactics that should be usable too..

    Such as

    0 motivation duelers can duel people when they wish not for xp as they dont get any or cash but just for fun ? eg to assist others in an alliance to stay KO ? nothing gained so no rule broken right ?

    If so then watch all the morticians highest damage go sky high because if its ok ill be going for the 3000 point damage record within the week.

    I gain nothing from it stated in the above rules so is that an acceptable "tactic" ?

    Personally id say its not acceptable but if that is so then you must concede that losing intentionally in a quest KO is no different.

    Id like the mods opinion on that quite seriously if possible please in plain yes or no and as to the reasoning why. No i didnt intend for it to include this as its slightly off topic but Ive only just noticed and it leads me to question the implications in dueling.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2010
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