Duelling changes - The West Beta!

[DeletedUser36011]

I have already said this in beta, and will say it again. You're not forced to duel. It's just you can get dueled. And it's not that you can't avoid them at all. You can still KO yourself by dueling with very low hp before you put your toon to sleep at the end of the day and get 48hr protection. Just a little bit of more effort for 48 hr of peace. If one is lazy to do it... that's his/her problem. Also, no one had any complaints when this game did not have a job KO protection 2 years back. Everyone lived with it then.

Yes no one complained before that, but that is before we were given the option to elect otherwise. I am all for removing the job KO option, but to remove it and not take anything away from the other side is not a fair and equitable trade. Bot ZMD and job KO are long abused features in the game. Giving the duelers 1% minimum motivation is a bit of a joke,, they can 1moti duel and stay low level and repeatedly beat up on all those extra people that show up in the lower reaches of their duel range and effectively 0 mot like they are now. Taking away the job KO, which we ahve been accustomed to, is like giving the full dollar whilst the ZMD's are giving up 5 cents. If you are going to completely ruin one, the other needs to be solved properly too, which it is not.

Basically your throwing one kind of player base that abuses a feature under the bus, and actually helping the another player base abuse a bug better than they could before.

 

[DeletedUser20054]

Actually, attacking someone with the intention of getting KO'ed is pushing, and that is not allowed...

Looking forward to the many bans that will create.

Seems the only two options to avoid getting duelled is leaving town or leaving game... I'm mostly for the last option, if (when) it comes to that.

Desi already said that as long as you don't push a bounty or xp, you are safe, my dear.

 

[DeletedUser1121]

I tend to agree with Pty. In my opinion the 1% should be atleast between 5 and 10%

 

[DeletedUser22685]

Time will tell how the no job ko goes. I hope that the fort fighting scene will not be affected, otherwise trust me, I will be the first one to complain at your door! And I dont mean be affected in 1-2 weeks time, I know people will complain to start with.

On the other hand though, I would prefer if the motivation increase was higher, not just 1%. I think it's too low. I would prefer more drastic measures. And yes this comes from a person that has been a ZMD for years.

I agree that the motivation floor should be more like 10% or even higher if we're truly going to be serious about stopping 0 mot duellers that intentionally camp weak targets.

Actually, attacking someone with the intention of getting KO'ed is pushing, and that is not allowed...

That's not true unless the two players coordinate stances.

 

[DeletedUser36011]

I tend to agree with Pty. In my opinion the 1% should be atleast between 5 and 10%

and whilst we are at it, creating the cash earnt a multiplier of your motivation too, you know like job motivation works. By having a minimum duel motivation, if the player has cash on you still get a wage but by electing to roam around with a lowered motivation you have a multiple drawbacks.

 

[DeletedUser36559]

I understand it never made sense that job KO prevented duels but the real problem is ZMD and 1% won't make a single difference, 10-20% will make a huge difference. These new changes will simply cause more people to become a dueler and hence there will be a lot more ZMD's and xp duelers. Simply to put it the ZMD's will thrive. Also I know Inno are trying to bring new players to join the west but any new player who joins and slowly levels up, does quests, jobs will eventually keep getting getting KO'ed every 48 hours and they are either forced to go dueling/ stay townless/ quit. This will simply deter any new players who joins this game. Sure I can go and get myself intentionally KO'ed by alliance members and live with 3 wins and 1000 losses, guess I have to live with that.

 

[C0OPeR]

+1000 from me for all these changes ( all of them )
good work and hope we see all these things very soon in .net servers ...

 

[DeletedUser1121]

Also I know Inno are trying to bring new players to join the west but any new player who joins and slowly levels up, does quests, jobs will eventually keep getting getting KO'ed every 48 hours and they are either forced to go dueling/ stay townless/ quit. This will simply deter any new players who joins this game.

The beauty of dueling at a low level is that you can level up very fast. The problem has always been that at a certain point you reached a dueling level where you were a sitting duck for the higher leveled ZMD who then started to pick on you. The new system makes sure your dueling level will start to drop after a while and you will not have this issue anymore.

I do agree that some players might not like the aspect of being dueled but it is part of this game and it fits the genre perfectly. I remember that in 2008 we used to tell people who complained that they got dueled to start playing Sim City or something. Not to scare anyone away, but yeah dueling is a main part of the game and it does have winners and losers.

 

[DeletedUser35120]

I do not know whether this could be a suggestion thread as well, but since most people here want to do about the ZMD's,

How about effective dueling skills being proportional to your duel motivation? (Yea, that's a drastic change, but makes sense I believe).

What does duel motivation mean at the end of the day afterall? It's your motivation to duel.. you keep losing motivation to duel right? So why won't your effective skills degrade and it becomes harder and harder to defeat your opponent?

Also we can finally have a reason to use those loads of christmas crackers rotting in our bags :laugh:

Just an idea.

 

[DeletedUser29831]

I've tried duelling, and I'm not really into it. So what? Many else are. But there has to be a way to avoid being hit constantly. After all, this game isn't just about duelling, whatever some thinks. And as it has been pointed out, you can't opt out of it. The way to avoid being harassed is the 48-hour protection, either job or duel naked. I'll happily live with the extra work to ko with duels instead of jobs, if!! this can make the game more interesting for those that like duelling. As for the other changes, let's try them. I also thinks the minimum duel mot should be higher, since that would over time get all hard core duellers in the same range, leaving those interested in working or questing behind, except for duellers on the way up.

I think this time Inno has really tried making the game better, not just tried to get more cash for it. So unless it suddenly pops up a premium feature allowing people to opt out, I think this is worth a try.

 

[DeletedUser36979]

The beauty of dueling at a low level is that you can level up very fast. The problem has always been that at a certain point you reached a dueling level where you were a sitting duck for the higher leveled ZMD who then started to pick on you. The new system makes sure your dueling level will start to drop after a while and you will not have this issue anymore.

I do agree that some players might not like the aspect of being dueled but it is part of this game and it fits the genre perfectly. I remember that in 2008 we used to tell people who complained that they got dueled to start playing Sim City or something. Not to scare anyone away, but yeah dueling is a main part of the game and it does have winners and losers.

True, duels is a main part of the game. So are FF's, quests and building, but noone is forced to being part of that... Why not? If we are forced to be part of the duelling, we also should be forced to take part in the other aspects of the game, should we not?

 

[DeletedUser1121]

True, duels is a main part of the game. So are FF's, quests and building, but noone is forced to being part of that... Why not? If we are forced to be part of the duelling, we also should be forced to take part in the other aspects of the game, should we not?

I see your point. I understand it can be annoying or even frustrating if you get dueled. But if we take a look at the larger picture, this is a role playing game. It is situated in the Wild west. Even back then you had the choice if you wanted to work, build or attack a fort. The one thing you could not always control was the action of others. If someone decided to shoot at you, you couldn't say that you opted out of it or anything like that. So in this aspect it is logical you can get dueled even if you don't want to.

You can leave the part out where you get dueled and be townless, but then you must miss out on the benefits of the town as well. Just like a famous dutch football player once said: "Every advantage has its disadvantage."

 

[DeletedUser36979]

I see your point. I understand it can be annoying or even frustrating if you get dueled. But if we take a look at the larger picture, this is a role playing game. It is situated in the Wild west. Even back then you had the choice if you wanted to work, build or attack a fort. The one thing you could not always control was the action of others. If someone decided to shoot at you, you couldn't say that you opted out of it or anything like that. So in this aspect it is logical you can get dueled even if you don't want to.

You can leave the part out where you get dueled and be townless, but then you must miss out on the benefits of the town as well. Just like a famous dutch football player once said: "Every advantage has its disadvantage."

Well, again, your logic is flawed... I would be safe if I attacked a fort, and just stood there waiting... any duellers there would be told I was at a fort fight.
And getting shot 8 times in the head does not make you tired, it makes you dead... but we just sleep it off here.... so much for your attempt to bring in the real west....


But honestly, I don't care about these change much, since I am already townless, next step could be quitting the game, since this is turning into a duellers game, with the occasional nuggets rip-offs.... getting harder to find a good reason to stay. And I have a feeling I am not the only one that considers leaving.

 

[DeletedUser1121]

Well, again, your logic is flawed... I would be safe if I attacked a fort, and just stood there waiting... any duellers there would be told I was at a fort fight.
And getting shot 8 times in the head does not make you tired, it makes you dead... but we just sleep it off here.... so much for your attempt to bring in the real west....

It was not logic i tried to use, it was a reference to the basic idea of the game. Sure we added exceptions to make it easier to manage which made it less realistic, but you would need to agree that there is no logic in duel protection from a job KO either?

 

[Deleted User - 1693871]

I don't know why people talk as if job KOs have only been around a couple of years. People claiming that are quite simply incorrect. They've been around as long as I've played, except that they were much more difficult than duel KOs in the past. Reason for that being that jobs were only unlocked on labour points, and minimum job times were 10 then 5 minutes, making it far less likely to get knocked out doing a job. However it still was possible to get knocked out on a job, but people wanting KO protection would get a duel KO as it was easier. People think job KOs have only been around a couple of years, because it's since v2 that they have been easier to do than duel KOs.

This game has changed a lot in the 6 years I've played it. Fort battles, a lot more premium features, buffs from the shop for nuggets or bonds. A lot more quests, a lot more good jobs, working to get products, then trading them on the market or crafting into more buffs. Tombola events with huge amounts of gear, super powered prizes for the event winners, skill buying.

The duelling scene as a result bears little resemblance to what it was a few years ago. Pay to win is a reality.

I can understand the point of view that says that a job KO should not give protection from duelling. So I suggest that Inno considers a PvP opt out button, with a cooldown of maybe a week in both directions. It should not be a premium feature, just as it wasn't in another Inno game couple of years ago.

That way those duellers will at least be certain that the people they are duelling are willing to be part of that aspect of the game. I'm sure that none of the duellers welcoming these changes in this forum are the sort who would want to pad their stats with easy wins against non-duellers, after all.

 

[DeletedUser36979]

It was not logic i tried to use, it was a reference to the basic idea of the game. Sure we added exceptions to make it easier to manage which made it less realistic, but you would need to agree that there is no logic in duel protection from a job KO either?

Would I? Maybe... but I still think the job-KO should be there, or some other way for non-duellers to protect themselves, besides staying townless, sleeping or self-KO'ing on another dueller (which will happen instead of job-KO).

The job-KO is not the real problem here... the real problem is the lack of options. I have chosen to stay townless, because I don't want 5-6 visits from ZMD's every 48h. These changes won't change anything about that, and if the 2015 roadmap doesn't give me the possibility to stay in a town with an option not to be duelled, me and my money will find another game instead.

 

[Blodox]

as far as i know job motivation resets every day. isn't it possible so that dueling motivation reset every day also and that way solve the 0 mot dueling?

 

[DeletedUser1121]

as far as i know job motivation resets every day. isn't it possible so that dueling motivation reset every day also and that way solve the 0 mot dueling?

iirc it is already reset every day.

 

[DeletedUser1121]

The job-KO is not the real problem here... the real problem is the lack of options. I have chosen to stay townless, because I don't want 5-6 visits from ZMD's every 48h. These changes won't change anything about that, and if the 2015 roadmap doesn't give me the possibility to stay in a town with an option not to be duelled, me and my money will find another game instead.

Well I do recall seeing some options for protection being either posted in the suggestion thread or even in the road maps for future updates. So we are actually looking at this, but I cant give to many details since I don't know the outcome yet.

 

[DeletedUser22685]

No, it reset once when the motivation split occurred, other than that duel motivation rises like all motivation used to.