Duelling changes - The West Beta!

  • Thread starter DeletedUser8627
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DeletedUser8627

Hey guys!

Just thought to let you know that we have some duelling changes hitting beta - Duelling Changes

As you can see, there will be a few things changed regards to duelling so head over to beta and start testing, provide your opinions etc...

See you there!

Main points provided thanks to Mr Diggo our Beta CM.
  • Duelling levels will be capped at four hundred and fifty.
    Once your duelling level reaches 450, it will no longer continue to rise. Like the ordinary level cap at 150, you will continue to receive duelling experience after you reach the duelling level cap, contributing to your duel ranking. This will allow high level experience duellers to challenge a broader range of targets across the world, so they are not limited to a needlessly small pool of possible targets.​
  • Losing a duel will deduct a third of the duel experience you would have gained for winning.
    For example, Player A defeats Player B. If Player B had won, he would have gained 90 regular experience and 30 duel experience. For losing, he gains no regular experience and loses 10 duel experience. This will prevent duel levels from increasing exponentially to the detriment of experience duellers, who are then exposed to other duellers with far greater skill and attribute points. It will also ensure non-duellers retain a duel level around their character level.

    Please note that the duel rankings will continue to be based on all time duel experience, excluding accrued losses. In other words, this change has no effect on the duel rankings.​
  • Active characters with no duel initiated in the past forty five days will lose 1% of their current duel experience each week.
    Once a week, characters who have not had a duel as challenger in the past 45 days (30 on beta) will lose 1% of their duel experience, provided they are still active. This will slowly decay the duel level of former experience duellers who reskill to play a different aspect of the game.​
  • Duel motivation will never fall below 1%.
    When your PvP duel motivation falls to 1%, it will not decrease further and never reach 0%. You will still be able to duel without restriction. Over a period of years, this will gradually raise the duel level of zero motivation duellers on older worlds.​
  • Job knockouts will no longer afford duel protection.
    If you are knocked out from job damage, you will no longer receive 48 hours of duel protection. This is to balance the effects of splitting PvP and PvE duel motivation and increasing the lowest possible PvP duel motivation.​


Please note that the changes above are still in beta and can change before being released on our server.
 
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DeletedUser

Removing job KO and not replacing it with something else to allow players to remove themselves from duelling is a mistake.

Mistake.
 

DeletedUser1121

The dueling option has always been a big part of the game and people who exploited the bug "Job KO" now need to find another solution if they don't want to be dueled.

And I say bug because that is what it has always been. There is no relation between doing a job and a duel. Then there is no logical explanation why a job KO should prevent you from dueling (or getting dueled).
 

Blodox

Member
no, no, no, no. Seems interesting all except job ko, this means dueling will be forced upon everyone. you cannot fort fight if you want, you cannot craft if you want, but you can be dueled regardless of your wishes. the option of leaving town is not very appealing if you really like to chat with your town mates and that is the main reason you're still into this game.
 

DeletedUser1121

no, no, no, no. Seems interesting all except job ko, this means dueling will be forced upon everyone. you cannot fort fight if you want, you cannot craft if you want, but you can be dueled regardless of your wishes. the option of leaving town is not very appealing if you really like to chat with your town mates and that is the main reason you're still into this game.


You have duel protection when you are at a fort.

You can craft when you sleep

Your wishes are not the only thing in this game. Dueling is an important and strategical part of it as well and it has been degraded due to this bug.

You always have saloon chat or the option to whisper.
 

DeletedUser

As I said in the Beta forums and I say here: Removing job KO is a silly and rash move. Forcing dueling on people who doesn't want to duel is a backward step from the progress the game has been making. Why not remove fort fights, jobs etc and make the game completely duel focused then? Forcing people to duel just to please a bunch of duelers is not a good gesture.
 

DeletedUser

Your wishes are not the only thing in this game.

Why ask for opinion of the players if a community manager cannot accept their POV with an open mind and instead wants to enforce their POV on the players ?
 

DeletedUser1121

I hear no arguments, just whining. Whining is not a very good way to communicate since it will not bring you anything. In all my replies, I added relevant information and options to overcome the points made. If you would start doing the same, maybe this could actually become a discussion and not a thread in which we try who can shed the most tears because it is not going to be exactly the way they like it to be.
 

DeletedUser20054

As I said in the beta forum post, (since we want to focus on the 48h)

It won't suit me since I have abused it for about 1,5 year, but it still doesn't make sense to have a duelling protection when getting a job ko. So yes, it is the right thing to do.

On the other hand though, it's pushing my hand towards the reskill button way easier, leaving us with 1 less fort fighting tank just to be able to defend myself and do what I want to do. I would prefer it if someone could reassure me that fort fights won't suffer because of this. I will be terribly pissed off the moment I hear people saying: I will be offline, I won't come because if I survive I will get duelled.

Help me find a solution to this and I'm all with you about the 48h ko.
 

DeletedUser1121

There is remote sign in to fort battles and when you arrive you have the protection of the signed in fort battle. Furthermore, when you have 10k hp as most fort battlers do and you own a decent set, the damage would be not nearly enough to make a difference and surely not enough for a cheap buff to fix. So i think dedicated fort fighters won't have many issues with this.
 

DeletedUser36011

It's a case of trying to remove one abused thing in the game(job KO) to help fix an even longer abused feature(ZMD). Or in simpler terms, annoying one set of people to make another set happy. You have to try to find a balance and the way it is going to change on an old, established world is a lower level ZMD party and super high duel levels shedding tears of joy(if they were actually dueling)
 

Blodox

Member
well, reskilling seems to be the one of the option. quitting the other one. unfortunately i can not come with a constructive solution that can fulfill the wishes of most people.
 

DeletedUser20054

This means that people should go townless? So we're actually trying to push people to leave towns in order to fort fight? Furthermore, sir, sometimes you do survive after a fort battle with let's say 2k hp and full energy and I am just an 18k tank. For me it's just a nugget issue to get back to full energy, but for some others those 6 hours are kinda of a big issue.

And you can get koed in 1 hour. For me it will just mean I will time the fort fights, ask a friend to poke me on the phone and come online through my phone in order to set sleep. I have that luxury, privilege, advantage or whatever you might call it. My only issue is I won't be able to job in peace anymore, but this is the price I have to pay for trying to have everything and it only makes sense to fix this.

Unless you're asking us people to keep ourselves koed on purpose from a friendly duel. Then okay, we can start doing that, if this is not considered to be an abuse.

And I repeat. It made no sense to have a 48h ko. But I would think that coming up with an alternative option might be a good idea.
 

DeletedUser22685

On the other hand though, it's pushing my hand towards the reskill button way easier, leaving us with 1 less fort fighting tank just to be able to defend myself and do what I want to do. I would prefer it if someone could reassure me that fort fights won't suffer because of this. I will be terribly pissed off the moment I hear people saying: I will be offline, I won't come because if I survive I will get duelled.

Help me find a solution to this and I'm all with you about the 48h ko.

I have a simple solution: give it a chance.

It takes a lot of duels to put a sizeable dent in any decent fort fighter's max HP. With the amount of regen boosting gear in the game these days it takes a maximum of two hours in a barracks to make up for any damage done by duellers, even if you've been hit two or three times. If you're really unlucky or you're a non-soldier and you manage to find yourself with 1 or 2k HP remaining (I'm not saying it never happens), strip off all your clothes and KO yourself legitimately without exploiting a flawed mechanic.

Job KOs only became a major part of the game a couple of years ago. Before that, people used to intentionally KO themselves in a duel against an alliance member. It takes a very small amount of effort to achieve the same result without defying all logic in the process. Take into account the fact that there are half as many duellers now as there were back then as well as the presence of HP boosting buffs in the bond shop and there really is no reason why fort fighters should be any worse off now than they have been in the past. The only conclusion that I can come to here is that they've all grown lazy and complacent.

This thread so far is reminiscent of the 0 mot duellers whining after the duel motivation split because they had to put in a small amount of effort to gain the same results. People wonder why the game seems to make little progress in the way of updates. Part of that is because every time Inno try and do something good, it's met with flaming by the party who considers themselves to be disadvantaged without pausing to think about whether or not the changes are actually as bad as they automatically assume.

For once I'd like to see players think about what's good for the game as a whole and what makes sense rather than what suits their own personal style of play. There hasn't been a single update in years that has catered to duellers in a positive way. The first time it happens, the non-duellers who have had it easy during that time are seeing red.

Try and remember that you haven't lost the ability to remain under KO protection if you don't want to be duelled. This update has only removed a bug.

I have a lot more to say on the matter, but I figure there'll be plenty more chances to argue over the coming pages.
 
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DeletedUser35785

forcing fort fighters to duel just doesn't make sense, fort attendance is all ready at an all time low. poor move in my opinion...
 

DeletedUser1121

This means that people should go townless? So we're actually trying to push people to leave towns in order to fort fight? Furthermore, sir, sometimes you do survive after a fort battle with let's say 2k hp and full energy and I am just an 18k tank. For me it's just a nugget issue to get back to full energy, but for some others those 6 hours are kinda of a big issue.
What is the difference between getting KO'd in a fort battle or shortly after in a duel? You both get an instant ride home and a nice sleep. Besides that, you are safe for the next 3/4 fort battles.

And you can get koed in 1 hour. For me it will just mean I will time the fort fights, ask a friend to poke me on the phone and come online through my phone in order to set sleep. I have that luxury, privilege, advantage or whatever you might call it. My only issue is I won't be able to job in peace anymore, but this is the price I have to pay for trying to have everything and it only makes sense to fix this.
You do need to be a little bit more creative indeed because you can't hide that easy anymore.

Unless you're asking us people to keep ourselves koed on purpose from a friendly duel. Then okay, we can start doing that, if this is not considered to be an abuse.
As long as you follow the rules (no pushing of XP through duels) There would be no issue here.

And I repeat. It made no sense to have a 48h ko. But I would think that coming up with an alternative option might be a good idea.

I am open to any constructive idea.
 

DeletedUser35120

I have already said this in beta, and will say it again. You're not forced to duel. It's just you can get dueled. And it's not that you can't avoid them at all. You can still KO yourself by dueling with very low hp before you put your toon to sleep at the end of the day and get 48hr protection. Just a little bit of more effort for 48 hr of peace. If one is lazy to do it... that's his/her problem. Also, no one had any complaints when this game did not have a job KO protection 2 years back. Everyone lived with it then.
 

DeletedUser20054

Time will tell how the no job ko goes. I hope that the fort fighting scene will not be affected, otherwise trust me, I will be the first one to complain at your door! :D And I dont mean be affected in 1-2 weeks time, I know people will complain to start with.

On the other hand though, I would prefer if the motivation increase was higher, not just 1%. I think it's too low. I would prefer more drastic measures. And yes this comes from a person that has been a ZMD for years.
 
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DeletedUser36979

I have already said this in beta, and will say it again. You're not forced to duel. It's just you can get dueled. And it's not that you can't avoid them at all. You can still KO yourself by dueling with very low hp before you put your toon to sleep at the end of the day and get 48hr protection. Just a little bit of more effort for 48 hr of peace. If one is lazy to do it... that's his/her problem. Also, no one had any complaints when this game did not have a job KO protection 2 years back. Everyone lived with it then.

Actually, attacking someone with the intention of getting KO'ed is pushing, and that is not allowed...

Looking forward to the many bans that will create.

Seems the only two options to avoid getting duelled is leaving town or leaving game... I'm mostly for the last option, if (when) it comes to that.
 
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