Daily Insights

Status
Not open for further replies.

DeletedUser

Nautral selection is an old idea. Some people don't believe in it.


Hmmm, what do they believe in then?


One other thing-your post is all about how a extremely powerful and intelligent creator made every little detail everywhere-but that isn't an answer to anything, it only raises another obvious question. Who made him? Don't make me laugh and say he is infinite or some other crap.

By definition, an eternal Being has always existed. He is the great "I AM", existing outside of time, which he in fact created. Since he had no beginning (being outside of time), he has no cause, unlike the universe. There is nothing illogical about an eternal being who has always existed, although it is perhaps not easy to understand. That is indeed a matter of faith, as is believing that information arises from disorder by chance. This leaves the scientific realm.

-Seamus

Matter was arranged!
 

DeletedUser8950

Your logic is so incredibly flawed it's barely worth a response. You claim everything is so detailed and complex it must have been created, but then deny that something complex enough to create it was created itself.
Logic is a hard concept for some.
I'm no evolutionary expert, but Iirc natural selection isn't the only theory.
 

DeletedUser

Your logic is so incredibly flawed it's barely worth a response. You claim everything is so detailed and complex it must have been created, but then deny that something complex enough to create it was created itself.
Logic is a hard concept for some.
I'm no evolutionary expert, but Iirc natural selection isn't the only theory.

Wow. Look up the word "eternal". Ever heard of the concept of an "unmoveable mover"?

A. That which has a beginning (exists in time), requires a cause.
B. God has no beginning. (exists outside of time)
C. Therefore, God requires no cause.

That's how logic works. You don't have to agree with the argument, but before you say the logic is faulty, take the class.
 

DeletedUser8950

Wow. Look up the word "eternal". Ever heard of the concept of an "unmoveable mover"?

A. That which has a beginning (exists in time), requires a cause.
B. God has no beginning. (exists outside of time)
C. Therefore, God requires no cause.

That's how logic works. You don't have to agree with the argument, but before you say the logic is faulty, take the class.
I know what eternal is.
That's like saying because a computer is so complex it must be designed, fair enough, but then saying whoever designed it must be eternal. Your arguement is shallow and with no proper reason.
Convince me of his eternity.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

DeletedUser

I know what eternal is.
That's like saying because a computer is so complex it must be designed, fair enough, but then saying whoever designed it must be eternal. Your arguement is shallow and with no proper reason.

But the logic is flawless.


Convince me of his eternity.

God doesn't need to convince anyone of anything. He stands before you and says "I AM". If he's not eternal, he's not God. No beginning, and no end. "His invisible attributes can be clearly seen through what has been made..." as it says in Romans 1. You can reject him, but you will have no excuse when you stand before him. "When you hear his voice, harden not your heart...."
 

DeletedUser

*sigh* If you can't see the flaws in that logic of yours then I truly do pity you.
 

DeletedUser8950

But the logic is flawless.




God doesn't need to convince anyone of anything. He stands before you and says "I AM". If he's not eternal, he's not God. No beginning, and no end. "His invisible attributes can be clearly seen through what has been made..." as it says in Romans 1. You can reject him, but you will have no excuse when you stand before him. "When you hear his voice, harden not your heart...."
1248811132978.jpg

http://api.ning.com/files/J8*U3zh2C...ndGeOXhwK0ioYrHJOHkr60fpe*L/1248811132978.jpg
 

DeletedUser

20th OF MAY, 2010

Gospel for today:
John 17:20-26 The Prayer of Jesus


Food for thought:
A world in darkness needs the light of Jesus.
:indian:
 

DeletedUser10480

Flash forward update from the past several centuries of logic, philosophy, and thought. Aquinas, arguably the greatest and most intelligent christian theologian and philosopher has dismissed the 'First Cause' argument.

Most first year philosophy students can see through the trickery of that one.

On an easier path of refutation........why not just save a step and assume that existence itself is eternal and use Occam's razor?

Aquinas saw so many flaws of this first cause argument. He shattered all the thinking of the Church in his day. Read his books. I have.
 

DeletedUser

My biggest comfort is that the more stupid people become, The more worth common sense becomes.. In that way, people like me should be treasured like the Gold in Fort Knox.

~ Personal observation made over the years..
 

DeletedUser

Yes, brother Darknoon5; I believe so. And when the tight time comes; I do hope everybody come to see it. I can only hope and pray said time would not be a time too late for a lot of us.

* * * * * * *

21st OF MAY, 2010

Gospel for today:
John 21:15-19 Jesus and Peter


Food for thought:
Our greatest riches are the riches we have in Christ.
:indian:
 

DeletedUser

A mind is like a glass... Those who fills it with what they want, looses all and learns not at all. Those who fills it with what they need, contains all and learns more
 

DeletedUser

22nd OF MAY, 2010

Gospel for today:
John 21:20-25 The Beloved Disciple


Food for thought:
A little love can make a big difference.
:indian:
 

DeletedUser10480

I see no Christians or theists wish to challenge the point. I will assume that means they agree and no longer hold their position?

Up to you fellas......
 

DeletedUser

Yes, the first cause argument is flawed, but not for the reasons argued. It is flawed because it poses a first cause, which is an assumption. The argument posed is that the universe was created. The assumption is that it was created from nothing and therefore God, who is outside of the realm of creation and thus non-causal, created the universe.

The mistake here is that it is not known what existed before the Big Bang, but it is reasonable to postulate there was something, just not the universe as we know it. It is also not a reasonable argument to pose a mathematical comparative of zero to infinity, and thus the reverse, primarily because there is once again the "assumption" of a zero. In truth, a person counting from zero to infinity merely "chose" to start at zero, but zero is not the beginning, merely the zero sum interpretation separating negative numbers from positive numbers.

Therefore the flaw in the argument is that assumptions are made to argue first cause. And while we do make many assumption in scientific analysis, these assumptions are based on data/evidence and a degree of reasonable thought, not omission for the sake of expediency or opportunistic interpretation.

What I'm saying is that it is an assumption that something created the universe, it is also an assumption that nothing cannot create nothing, therefore it is an assumption that something outside of the nothing, not subject to nothing, created the universe. The next assumption is made that this something is an entity, and the final assumption is that it is God.

As you can see, that's a lot of assumptions, all of which are completely devoid of supporting evidence. So, instead of arguing, "who created God?" as a rebuttal, the better arguments should be:

  1. Do you know there was nothing before the universe?
  2. Do you know that nothing was ever a state?
  3. Do you know that nothing cannot create nothing?
  4. Do you know what constitutes nothing?
  5. Do you know if nothing has parameters and, if so, then is it truly nothing?
  6. Is it not reasonable, based on your series of assumptions, that if something created something from nothing, then something else at one point created that something from nothing, ad infinitum, which in itself demonstrates infinity?
  7. What makes a something (which created something out of nothing, which itself was created out of nothing by something, which itself was created out of nothing by something, ad infinitum) into an entity, and in turn makes it "your" God?
The answer to all of these is, "you don't know," and thus First Cause is a filler for ignorance.



“The beauty of religious mania is that it has the power to explain everything. Once God (or Satan) is accepted as the first cause of everything which happens in the mortal world, nothing is left to chance...logic can be happily tossed out the window.” ~ Stephen King
 
Last edited by a moderator:

DeletedUser

"The molecules of your body are the same molecules that make this station and the nebula outside, that burn inside the stars themselves. We are star-stuff. We are the Universe, made manifest, trying to figure itself out. And, as we have both learned, sometimes the Universe needs a change of perspective." - Delenn

"You can get further with a kind word and a two by four, than just a kind word" - Marcus Cole

"
The bad days are there for you to better appriceate the good days"
 
Last edited by a moderator:

DeletedUser

From a the vast darkness/nothingness; occurred a "Big Bang". A sudden chance wherein from pure nothingness came a thought. A thought that was conceived out of all nothingness. And this "Thought" conceived another thought. Something much different from the endless void of nothingness which is more likely to be termed as darkness. And from the thought conceived by this "Thought" came the very first and original Light.

- just a thought which is my own. Just to share without any provocation. :nowink:

* * * * * * *

23rd OF MAY, 2010

Gospel for today:
John 14:15-16, 23b-26 The Advocate

Food for thought:
Repentance clears the way for our relationship with the King.
:indian:
 

DeletedUser

From a the vast darkness/nothingness; occurred a "Big Bang". A sudden chance wherein from pure nothingness came a thought. A thought that was conceived out of all nothingness. And this "Thought" conceived another thought. Something much different from the endless void of nothingness which is more likely to be termed as darkness. And from the thought conceived by this "Thought" came the very first and original Light.
Yeah, maybe you might want to reread my post, as you just made a multitude of the same assumptions I posed the First Cause claimers are posing. I.e., you are assuming, without evidence, that nothing existed before Big Bang. Hypothetically, this assumption is simply wrong. You are assuming a thought was created from nothingness, and yet it is argued that nothing is nothing, therefore cannot conceive something, and if it could, then the entire First Cause claim is effectively denied. You are assuming every part of your postulation, just so you can feel better about what you don't know.


“There is nothing more frightful than ignorance in action.” ~ Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top