DeletedUser16008
Because it corrals them into tight areas of 4 or 5 jobs.... less walking about to smack more targets. Not that im complaining I think that bits great
Because it corrals them into tight areas of 4 or 5 jobs.... less walking about to smack more targets. Not that im complaining I think that bits great
DeletedUser
i posted this as feedback on the beta forum might give you a view on how it is now
ok long post sorry i will try to put it in sections
general remarks
This new update was there to made the game more attractive for newcomers, and to be a bit more challenging for high ranks, as well as fixing some unbalance and bugs. And lastly making the game more rewarding for most active players. Since its still in testing and stuff can change, i can't give a final judgement but so far i think it failed its goal and will make the playerbase decline further instead of growing it. basically because the core of the game got removed(in my opinion, logging in a few times 5 mins a day and still be able to do the quests, tasks and be competible)
new job system I length of jobs
The new update on beta made every job 1 minute or more(except those 4 tutorial jobs). which is better then the old system, however many jobs are sitll between 1 and 10 minutes, and basically the only way to do them is to be online and keep clicking them to start again, even with automation, where in the past you could just schedule your entire energy easily, now even with automation you can only schedule a small part of it.
You can say well do long jobs then, however thats usually not an option since quests will demand you do certain jobs 20-30-40-50 times easily. so you are forced to do those jobs a lot, and its more common then uncommon that you need to do those jobs en masse, so like pointed out in the introduction this will make those not able to be online all the time(a vast majority) and who enjoy the game for their low pace simply can't complete quests anymore, or really compete with the ''click monkeys''
I think if jobs have a minimum time of 10 minutes this can be somewhat adjusted(as well as a minimum of 4-5 energy per job).
Job system II droprates
Ok the link below shows the # of products you get per 24 energy spend on a job on average, first column shows the old situation, and the 2nd column shows the situation atm in tw.2(new jobs all got 100% drops so aren't enlisted) these figures are for non premium income, colours quickly show if it declined or risen
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgsVg2WqQXEzdFY3dFd0b0xvU2g4c0QwQk1ORmxoUUE&pli=1#gid=0
As you can see is that easy, low level jobs yield many many more products now, which is not weird, since they wanted to make this game easier for newbies\ low ranks, and that higher level jobs generally aren't easier or even harder to find products on is not a bad thing either since it makes it more challenging, and building windmills gets even more frustrating then it is so thats good.
The problem is that droprates simply went over the top, remember these are figures for non premium users, and even high levels need many low level products, since they are so darn easy(and quick to get in low level jobs) low ranks can't earn money on em again since people will rather get em themselves. so i think atm these rates are to high, and for most jobs should be closer to the old rates, though some jobs like rafting wood could really use better droprates.
The last problem you get is that some jobs got a high level equivelant, for instance coal mining has dig rare gemstones as equivelant, as you can see its now much more rewarding to just do coal mining, so you are stupid to still dig rare gemstones, the job might give more money and xp, but products are the best source of money so i doubt many will do dig for rare gemstones(also you can get tons of coal in 1 hour(12 times coal mining) why spend 2 hours on getting 1-2 coal? same applies for breaking in horses and stealing horses. or for building palisades(the 4 products they drop all got a huge improvement in droprate so easier and faster to get from those jobs)
Job system III new danger system
The new danger system no longer gives a fixed amount of damage, but does a percentage ranging from what i saw from 1 to 30% (green jobs are safer then red jobs). the though behind it i like, the problem behind it is that ''newbies'' will experience greater trouble with it then experienced players, and that the damage rates are to high even on jobs i got +100 lp i still got easily +20% red damage range, and thats quite a pain if you need to do it 30 times for a quest, cos you will be knocked out before you reach half.
Most newbies don't got towns, or banks etc, so getting knocked out on jobs will make them lose all their money, also townless people will have that problem. This is extremely discouraging certainly cos as newbie you really won't know that. see jobs like transport ammunition ofcourse its dangerous, but i think the max percentage should be 20% of health being lost(heck i even lost 10% on green jobs) but also that the probability of getting damaged on jobs should be much lower, max 20% or so on any jobs, and that is lowers faster with more lp in a job(which it barely does now). since this danger system is a huge nuisance atm that will not make anyone happy.
Job system IV and motivation
The new update makes motivation drop slower now which is an improvement, however with the insane quests demands of doing jobs 20- or even 120 or 240 times, it still drops really fast relatively, for the simply reason you need to spam such jobs. and will end up at 0% fast enough! this should either be fixed by dropping motivation on those low level jobs even slower, or by maybe adjusting quests.
Quests
Like mentioned a few times before above, those new quests are insane, its mainly due to the new job system i guess. but doing this job 20 times that job 40 times or that job 60 times are just insane demands that a regular not clickmonkey player will struggle with a lot and will simply give up since they keep on coming and aren't exactly getting less clickmonkey style. like mentioned above if the fastest jobs are like 10 minutes instead of 1 minutes, also the demands for these quests can be lowered with a factor 10, which eventually will increase the playability for all, and still is rewarding for active players!
crafting
ok i haven't seen how much the higher crafts cost now, but i noticed as low level saddler on enewetak that some crafts are a tiny wee easier, which is a good thing. however in combination with this new job system keeping in mind the old requirements for crafting is completely disbalanced. To put it more bluntly a blacksmith can be level 600 in a month where others will be struggling to maybe reach level 150. Smith was already by far the easiest craft to get high levelled in, but now its insanely easy. let me explain. Though most low level crafts -50 got easier for all crafts, blacksmith is the only craft that actually also got easier up higher up.
basically a smith needs, coal, granite, iron, barbed wire, wood, hammers, saws, sledgehammers. basically all except iron mining yield much higher droprates atm, not to mention that all atm can be obtained into 1-30 minute jobs, and all are easy for every low level to do. the outside crafts blacksmith need are just the few crafts that actually got easier on other crafts, like resin(jugs got much much easier) and charcoal.
Now look at the other crafts, for a cook who needs easily 700 steaks to get to level 600, that product is a 1 hour job with a lower droprate per 24 energy then before, not to mention the vasts amount of rum(high level job with much lower droprate now) crabmeat etc. The only positive thing for cooks is that they if premium energy and income activated have acces to unlimited energy(reported as bug yet with the update today the drop chances for tomatoes and beans even got high). Just to explain invest 72 energy in getting tomatoes and beans, and you will get enough of em with current droprates to get easily 90+ energy back(given your prem income and energy).
and despite easy hams cooking got much harder
Now look at saddler, on first glance it got a bit easier, but no way you will get to level 450, with digging for rare gemstones gotten useless and the already low droprates for uncut ruby's and uncut emerald on that job, good luck with 25 of both to get passed there. not to mention saddlers really need many outside crafts that aren't the easiest to obtain
Lastly the craft thats already insanely hard. Tonic peddler, to be a high level peddler you need to do already about all of the hardest jobs in the game, with low droprates, for instance to get really high you need atleast 50 peaceflowers, with the new job system to get those, you need 500 hours of freeing slaves, thats prolly more time then getting all your products to get to level 0 to 600 on blacksmith, not to mention peddlers need, rum, roses, lotus flower, spikes(ok those got a bit easier but also a 2 hour job) so besides already having to do the most hardest jobs in the games, most of those products will take more time to get then now already.
I hope its clear why this new job system totally distorts crafting which wasn't balanced in the first place already (you need to spend a fortune on products on peddler for a level 550 craft thats basically a baked beans+pipe brush, hurray).
final conclusion
i like the new map and the effort of getting activity rewards as well as making it easier for lower ranks, and heck i actually like this new job system with clusters. but these really short times, and weird droprates totally mess up the core of the game and in my opinion will actually scare many away instead of getting more players.
Sorry for the long post but just my feedback so far, with a few suggestions
ok long post sorry i will try to put it in sections
general remarks
This new update was there to made the game more attractive for newcomers, and to be a bit more challenging for high ranks, as well as fixing some unbalance and bugs. And lastly making the game more rewarding for most active players. Since its still in testing and stuff can change, i can't give a final judgement but so far i think it failed its goal and will make the playerbase decline further instead of growing it. basically because the core of the game got removed(in my opinion, logging in a few times 5 mins a day and still be able to do the quests, tasks and be competible)
new job system I length of jobs
The new update on beta made every job 1 minute or more(except those 4 tutorial jobs). which is better then the old system, however many jobs are sitll between 1 and 10 minutes, and basically the only way to do them is to be online and keep clicking them to start again, even with automation, where in the past you could just schedule your entire energy easily, now even with automation you can only schedule a small part of it.
You can say well do long jobs then, however thats usually not an option since quests will demand you do certain jobs 20-30-40-50 times easily. so you are forced to do those jobs a lot, and its more common then uncommon that you need to do those jobs en masse, so like pointed out in the introduction this will make those not able to be online all the time(a vast majority) and who enjoy the game for their low pace simply can't complete quests anymore, or really compete with the ''click monkeys''
I think if jobs have a minimum time of 10 minutes this can be somewhat adjusted(as well as a minimum of 4-5 energy per job).
Job system II droprates
Ok the link below shows the # of products you get per 24 energy spend on a job on average, first column shows the old situation, and the 2nd column shows the situation atm in tw.2(new jobs all got 100% drops so aren't enlisted) these figures are for non premium income, colours quickly show if it declined or risen
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgsVg2WqQXEzdFY3dFd0b0xvU2g4c0QwQk1ORmxoUUE&pli=1#gid=0
As you can see is that easy, low level jobs yield many many more products now, which is not weird, since they wanted to make this game easier for newbies\ low ranks, and that higher level jobs generally aren't easier or even harder to find products on is not a bad thing either since it makes it more challenging, and building windmills gets even more frustrating then it is so thats good.
The problem is that droprates simply went over the top, remember these are figures for non premium users, and even high levels need many low level products, since they are so darn easy(and quick to get in low level jobs) low ranks can't earn money on em again since people will rather get em themselves. so i think atm these rates are to high, and for most jobs should be closer to the old rates, though some jobs like rafting wood could really use better droprates.
The last problem you get is that some jobs got a high level equivelant, for instance coal mining has dig rare gemstones as equivelant, as you can see its now much more rewarding to just do coal mining, so you are stupid to still dig rare gemstones, the job might give more money and xp, but products are the best source of money so i doubt many will do dig for rare gemstones(also you can get tons of coal in 1 hour(12 times coal mining) why spend 2 hours on getting 1-2 coal? same applies for breaking in horses and stealing horses. or for building palisades(the 4 products they drop all got a huge improvement in droprate so easier and faster to get from those jobs)
Job system III new danger system
The new danger system no longer gives a fixed amount of damage, but does a percentage ranging from what i saw from 1 to 30% (green jobs are safer then red jobs). the though behind it i like, the problem behind it is that ''newbies'' will experience greater trouble with it then experienced players, and that the damage rates are to high even on jobs i got +100 lp i still got easily +20% red damage range, and thats quite a pain if you need to do it 30 times for a quest, cos you will be knocked out before you reach half.
Most newbies don't got towns, or banks etc, so getting knocked out on jobs will make them lose all their money, also townless people will have that problem. This is extremely discouraging certainly cos as newbie you really won't know that. see jobs like transport ammunition ofcourse its dangerous, but i think the max percentage should be 20% of health being lost(heck i even lost 10% on green jobs) but also that the probability of getting damaged on jobs should be much lower, max 20% or so on any jobs, and that is lowers faster with more lp in a job(which it barely does now). since this danger system is a huge nuisance atm that will not make anyone happy.
Job system IV and motivation
The new update makes motivation drop slower now which is an improvement, however with the insane quests demands of doing jobs 20- or even 120 or 240 times, it still drops really fast relatively, for the simply reason you need to spam such jobs. and will end up at 0% fast enough! this should either be fixed by dropping motivation on those low level jobs even slower, or by maybe adjusting quests.
Quests
Like mentioned a few times before above, those new quests are insane, its mainly due to the new job system i guess. but doing this job 20 times that job 40 times or that job 60 times are just insane demands that a regular not clickmonkey player will struggle with a lot and will simply give up since they keep on coming and aren't exactly getting less clickmonkey style. like mentioned above if the fastest jobs are like 10 minutes instead of 1 minutes, also the demands for these quests can be lowered with a factor 10, which eventually will increase the playability for all, and still is rewarding for active players!
crafting
ok i haven't seen how much the higher crafts cost now, but i noticed as low level saddler on enewetak that some crafts are a tiny wee easier, which is a good thing. however in combination with this new job system keeping in mind the old requirements for crafting is completely disbalanced. To put it more bluntly a blacksmith can be level 600 in a month where others will be struggling to maybe reach level 150. Smith was already by far the easiest craft to get high levelled in, but now its insanely easy. let me explain. Though most low level crafts -50 got easier for all crafts, blacksmith is the only craft that actually also got easier up higher up.
basically a smith needs, coal, granite, iron, barbed wire, wood, hammers, saws, sledgehammers. basically all except iron mining yield much higher droprates atm, not to mention that all atm can be obtained into 1-30 minute jobs, and all are easy for every low level to do. the outside crafts blacksmith need are just the few crafts that actually got easier on other crafts, like resin(jugs got much much easier) and charcoal.
Now look at the other crafts, for a cook who needs easily 700 steaks to get to level 600, that product is a 1 hour job with a lower droprate per 24 energy then before, not to mention the vasts amount of rum(high level job with much lower droprate now) crabmeat etc. The only positive thing for cooks is that they if premium energy and income activated have acces to unlimited energy(reported as bug yet with the update today the drop chances for tomatoes and beans even got high). Just to explain invest 72 energy in getting tomatoes and beans, and you will get enough of em with current droprates to get easily 90+ energy back(given your prem income and energy).
and despite easy hams cooking got much harder
Now look at saddler, on first glance it got a bit easier, but no way you will get to level 450, with digging for rare gemstones gotten useless and the already low droprates for uncut ruby's and uncut emerald on that job, good luck with 25 of both to get passed there. not to mention saddlers really need many outside crafts that aren't the easiest to obtain
Lastly the craft thats already insanely hard. Tonic peddler, to be a high level peddler you need to do already about all of the hardest jobs in the game, with low droprates, for instance to get really high you need atleast 50 peaceflowers, with the new job system to get those, you need 500 hours of freeing slaves, thats prolly more time then getting all your products to get to level 0 to 600 on blacksmith, not to mention peddlers need, rum, roses, lotus flower, spikes(ok those got a bit easier but also a 2 hour job) so besides already having to do the most hardest jobs in the games, most of those products will take more time to get then now already.
I hope its clear why this new job system totally distorts crafting which wasn't balanced in the first place already (you need to spend a fortune on products on peddler for a level 550 craft thats basically a baked beans+pipe brush, hurray).
final conclusion
i like the new map and the effort of getting activity rewards as well as making it easier for lower ranks, and heck i actually like this new job system with clusters. but these really short times, and weird droprates totally mess up the core of the game and in my opinion will actually scare many away instead of getting more players.
Sorry for the long post but just my feedback so far, with a few suggestions
DeletedUser34781
Very informative and precisely detailed and laid out.well done.
I think the set up of the job times needs to be addressed asap as this will force the very active players to lose faith as i know so many players who log in 3-4's day and set there hourly jobs and log out..this current way about it will drastically hinder anyone from wanting to come back they will have massive bills for doctors with tendinitis from clicking so much..its insane.
If they see veterans complain about this a lot they will have to look at it..and drop rates easy as they are will end up only flooding a market system.
I think the set up of the job times needs to be addressed asap as this will force the very active players to lose faith as i know so many players who log in 3-4's day and set there hourly jobs and log out..this current way about it will drastically hinder anyone from wanting to come back they will have massive bills for doctors with tendinitis from clicking so much..its insane.
If they see veterans complain about this a lot they will have to look at it..and drop rates easy as they are will end up only flooding a market system.
DeletedUser16008
So whats all this i hear about your dueling level being increased by a large amount when the update happens like on beta ?? 
DeletedUser
So whats all this i hear about your dueling level being increased by a large amount when the update happens like on beta ??
http://clip2net.com/s/2eA6f
- top dueller on Alamogordo with a dueling lvl of 823
http://clip2net.com/s/2eyPY
- best duel I've done today, with over 5k xp gained
I had a dueling lvl of 290 before the update, current being 463.
Last edited by a moderator:
DeletedUser34315
That is absolute garbage. Completely screws those of use who have been working on our DL, to have them jump up like this, and to be able to get such an absurd amount of experience. If the dueling level change comes to world 1, it will completely ruin it, permanently.
DeletedUser16008
+1 GG total garbage
WHAT THE HECK ? they trying to stop all questers, forters and workers being dueled overnight or something ?
Protect all forters from being dueled meanwhile they tank and steal your towns forts.. great what a good idea :whistle:
WHAT THE HECK ? they trying to stop all questers, forters and workers being dueled overnight or something ?
Protect all forters from being dueled meanwhile they tank and steal your towns forts.. great what a good idea :whistle:
DeletedUser
Version 2.0 looks great graphically and I love the job clusters, however the job times, item drop rates and job motivation are all over the shop. eg. why does laying railroad tracks default to 1.5 hrs while setting up telegraph poles only takes 5 mins???
I assume these shorter job times were merely to speed up leveling in the beta phase, so I hope they do not carry over to the non-beta worlds.
If I could change anything, I would change:
-Job times, motivation, etc etc
-More green grass and forest, less desert (it plain old looks better)
Overall, I believe the update will be a success
I assume these shorter job times were merely to speed up leveling in the beta phase, so I hope they do not carry over to the non-beta worlds.
If I could change anything, I would change:
-Job times, motivation, etc etc
-More green grass and forest, less desert (it plain old looks better)
Overall, I believe the update will be a success
DeletedUser16008
Apparently the most gains were made by those with the most duels .. that means 0 motive will all get stuffed and also probably quit, nice if your lvl 50 with duel lvl of 300 when youve done 3000 or so duels also not sure but could be linked to NPC past duels too plus the xp duelers would drop in ranking i guess thatll please them no end .. nice one :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:
DeletedUser15641
LOL wow i see two 10K+ duels from two players in world one so what does this mean if it comes to w1?1K dueling level??
DeletedUser16008
Apparently all experience was tripled, which includes the dueling ex. As the formula to determine the dueling level was not altered, duelers now have crazy high dueling levels.
DeletedUser
It seems to be more than tripled. Before v2 the max you could get from a duel was about 1k xp (ish) and people can get way over 3k xp now.
DeletedUser
For me this is the biggest change in the game. I can only log in a few mins twice a day. With premium on automation, higher income and energy, it was fine, and I could still progress fairly well. With the new job system, you'll get nowhere playing in this way. Regardless if I like it or not - that will be the end of me. I enjoyed the game while it lasted, but when we change to V2, that will unfortunately be bye-bye from me. Amount of nuggest I have purchased so far to enjoy the-west:
26,000 (new premium system)
650 (old premium system, equivalent to 6500 in new premium system).
Somebody can do the math to get an approximate cost - I am too lazy for this right now.
DeletedUser
The xp gains increasing by more than 3x is because of the unchanged reward formula itself:
http://wiki.the-west.net/wiki/Duels#Dueling_reward
Code:
Experience = (7 * dueling level of loser) - (5 * dueling level of winner) + 5So if dueling levels are tripled, then the xp gains are (I'm just going to go ahead and do this all math-like here), assuming the same dueling level:
Code:
Old: 7x-5x +5 = 2x+5
New: 7(3x)-5(3x) +5 = 7x+5So, 3,5 times more xp in this special case. +5. Of course, the higher the DL diff in favor of the winner, the more xp reward.
DeletedUser34315
Inno...... you do realize that man has spent 877 $ on your game? And you've likely made him quit spending money, since he no longer enjoys it?
DeletedUser
Heh. Oops, that's what I get for doing the phases in my head. 21 - 15 = haaaard.
Anyway, I'm not 100% sure the dueling level gets tripled when xp gains are tripled either, so there might even be a logic flaw there.
Slygoxx
Well-Known Member
Heh. Oops, that's what I get for doing the phases in my head. 21 - 15 = haaaard.
Anyway, I'm not 100% sure the dueling level gets tripled when xp gains are tripled either, so there might even be a logic flaw there.
They're not, as far as I know, so there is indeed a logic flaw. The duel exp to dueling level is no linear function, but a quadratic one.
DeletedUser30417
You're not the only one who is considering quitting the game when 2.0 hits the regular servers. Been playing 2.0 on Almogordo yesterday and I'm very unhappy about the new version. Mainly due to the new jobsystem I really hate.
To be honest I have a hard time finding stuff I like about the new version. Sure the graphics are better, but that's only eyecandy and will do little to make the game more enjoyable. The only thing I really like thus far is that you can see your market items (items you bought/sold, but haven't picked up yet) on the mini map
Thus far I have spent 56k nuggets on my main account on Arizona. I hate to look for another game to spent my hard earned money on, but the current state of 2.0 brings me no enjoyment (only the contrary)
DeletedUser
I think HOTKEYS are best new feature for a quite some time. And they are even CUSTOMIZABLE!
Awesomeness in this is too great to describe.
Which leads to another question: what the heck were they waiting with this? Online game in 2012. which did not have hotkeys?
Awesomeness in this is too great to describe.
Which leads to another question: what the heck were they waiting with this? Online game in 2012. which did not have hotkeys?