Sexuality is Not a Choice

[DeletedUser16008]

As for the choice part, if you think about it, I mean really think outside the box (not your own little bubble), there is living proof that some people will stay in a relationship, a hetrosexual relationship for years, even have kids, then eventually say "I'm gay, I want a divorce, knew I was gay..... no no I'm gay end of story".
This is what I would call, desire, sexual urges and then DECIDING to give into them by CHOICE and I'd be more likely to say that was a midlife crisis because some have even gone back to their wife/husband some time down the line.

Yup and there are many many more who eventually come out and decide to stop living the lie and a life of incompleteness or unhappiness or peer pressure ... this is what i would call being honest with themselves......the majority that do come out do not return to a heterosexual relationship. This idea people have with the sexual act re homosexuality is very misunderstood. Do you think just because your with your partner you have to be banging like rabbits all the time ? of course not. why then would you assume its purely a sexual thing ? actually it isnt. If you assume it is then you need to think further inside the box such as companionship, partnership, understanding, love and all the rest of teh things that make up a relationship.

I know they wouldn't choose to have these feelings and desires, I agree with that....... what I'm saying is I think some people use the sex part of it to fulfil a desire or fantasy and therefore choose to be gay or bisexual for a short period of time (hate that expression, your either gay or straight).
There is no harm in this, I am not a detractor of gays, I am simply saying if biologically a gay person is engineered to be gay, then they are not normal (biologically), again no harm in that.
Most would know that otherwise society would accept it and they themselves would come out of the closet straight away and some would probably even choose NOT to be gay because of this even though they get them desires.

There are sexual hedonists everywhere so what ? there always has been & it has nothing special to do with being homosexual, in fact its mainly the hetrosexual ( straight ) people who pop in and out of the bisexual world. Trying things out if you will, it is not frequent for a homosexual to go bi for the taste

Biologically has nothing to do with what is "normal" or not, humans are made up of a lot more than just DNA, normal is a horrible word. Humanity is diverse. Anal sex has been used as a form of contraception forever, male homosexuality has in some ages been prevalent and also widespread. What is exactly normal ? according to who ? biologically those that picked the wrong hole did not reproduce, natural selection if you will. You can also see it in nature.

Some ( the majority ) are born that way, circumstance may or may not steer them into a hetrosexual relationship. Others will force it on themselves, some are just confused and lonely.... however in the main the high majority i have known have "always known" who they are inside.

I can give you plenty of examples of heterosexual men happy to stick it wherever. There are far more in that camp than sex crazy homosexuals I assure you.

Finally there is the matter of parenthood. There is no evidence to support the theory that a gay couple bringing up a child affects that child re their sexual behaviour later in life, there is plenty of evidence that sexual abuse scars and confuses that child as to what is expected or accepted. Again this abuse usually takes place in a heterosexual environment and you have to wonder had the father or male that are mostly responsible had a life where they could just be themselves and openly able to express their sexual preference another life would not be ruined because of suppressing their own.

 

[DeletedUser]

A penis is supposed to be used for reproduction, a vagina is also used for reproduction, an anus is supposed to be used for ridding of waste from the body.

Your argument isn't against homosexuality, it's against sodomy.

I also THINK that pheromones and chemical changes in the body DO play a part in sexuality, for example you can often (not always) tell a gay man from a very young age because of the way they talk (accent in their voice) and their body language, we've all grown up and said to our old pals from school "I knew that that Hellstrom would grow up to be gay" (just using it as an example).

And you are incorrect. Behavior is for the most part learned. Someone behaving like a flame, behaving with cultural indicators of femininity is not due to pheromones or chemicals, it is due to wanting to be recognized as being feminine in that particular culture.

I'm sure you realize women and men behave differently in different cultures.

As for the choice part, if you think about it, I mean really think outside the box (not your own little bubble), there is living proof that some people will stay in a relationship, a hetrosexual relationship for years, even have kids, then eventually say "I'm gay, I want a divorce, knew I was gay..... no no I'm gay end of story".

You are confusing things again. In this and many other cultures, homosexuals are treated as pariahs. As an example, if someone were to want entry into politics, it is most unlikely they will be voted in without "posing" as heterosexual. If they wish to gain promotions, same issue. It is therefore not unreasonable for a homosexual to allow themselves to be sexually stimulated (different from aroused) in a hetero relationship in order to be considered, by outsiders, as straight.

This is what I would call, desire, sexual urges and then DECIDING to give into them by CHOICE and I'd be more likely to say that was a midlife crisis because some have even gone back to their wife/husband some time down the line.

Yeah, well, your ignorance is not a reliable gauge of facts, now is it?

I know they wouldn't choose to have these feelings and desires, I agree with that....... what I'm saying is I think some people use the sex part of it to fulfil a desire or fantasy and therefore choose to be gay or bisexual for a short period of time (hate that expression, your either gay or straight).

As I stated in a original post, you are incorrect. Respectfully, I strongly recommend you read the first post in this thread instead of repeating fallacious causation.

 

[DeletedUser]

Yup and there are many many more who eventually come out and decide to stop living the lie and a life of incompleteness or unhappiness or peer pressure ... this is what i would call being honest with themselves......the majority that do come out do not return to a heterosexual relationship. This idea people have with the sexual act re homosexuality is very misunderstood. Do you think just because your with your partner you have to be banging like rabbits all the time ? of course not. why then would you assume its purely a sexual thing ? actually it isnt. If you assume it is then you need to think further inside the box such as companionship, partnership, understanding, love and all the rest of teh things that make up a relationship.

There are sexual hedonists everywhere so what ? there always has been & it has nothing special to do with being homosexual, in fact its mainly the hetrosexual ( straight ) people who pop in and out of the bisexual world. Trying things out if you will, it is not frequent for a homosexual to go bi for the taste

Biologically has nothing to do with what is "normal" or not, humans are made up of a lot more than just DNA, normal is a horrible word. Humanity is diverse. Anal sex has been used as a form of contraception forever, male homosexuality has in some ages been prevalent and also widespread. What is exactly normal ? according to who ? biologically those that picked the wrong hole did not reproduce, natural selection if you will. You can also see it in nature.

Some ( the majority ) are born that way, circumstance may or may not steer them into a hetrosexual relationship. Others will force it on themselves, some are just confused and lonely.... however in the main the high majority i have known have "always known" who they are inside.

I can give you plenty of examples of heterosexual men happy to stick it wherever. There are far more in that camp than sex crazy homosexuals I assure you.

Finally there is the matter of parenthood. There is no evidence to support the theory that a gay couple bringing up a child affects that child re their sexual behaviour later in life, there is plenty of evidence that sexual abuse scars and confuses that child as to what is expected or accepted. Again this abuse usually takes place in a heterosexual environment and you have to wonder had the father or male that are mostly responsible had a life where they could just be themselves and openly able to express their sexual preference another life would not be ruined because of suppressing their own.

Well I'll just say this, maybe your right, maybe I misunderstand the circle of life.
I don't like the word normal either, society determines what normal is not me, you wouldn't get any stick off me in the streets for being "abnormal" anyway.

Parenthood with a gay couple, this does not determine your sexuality but it will single the child out as being from an "abnormal" family, it's not my way of thinking honestly I wouldn't bat an eyelid but odds are that child would surly get stick and bullied about it growing up.

I have nothing more to add.

 

[DeletedUser]

Parenthood with a gay couple, this does not determine your sexuality but it will single the child out as being from an "abnormal" family, it's not my way of thinking honestly I wouldn't bat an eyelid but odds are that child would surly get stick and bullied about it growing up.

Interesting, so your argument is that because of homophobia we should disallow a gay couple from having or rearing children, for the child's safety from outsiders who would stick & bully? Again, where is the logic in penalizing the innocent for the actions of the guilty?

 

[DeletedUser17649]

That's pretty much the one argument me dad use.
And my grandmothers younger brother.

I was bullied pretty much for being the new kid in a small society.
Kids (and some adults I'd bet) are being bullied for wearing glasses, being to long, short, scrawny, fat etc.
Bullies need no reason, they'll come up with them as time goes on.

 

[DeletedUser]

@ Hellstromm, yea ok I go off topic a bit, reading your posts and vics, I already knew and understood most of this.
I am just pointing out that SOME have the ability to choose their sexuality, that may be the minority but it is true, if you are saying a bisexual isn't changing their sexuality from one sex to the other (sexual intercourse IS a massive part in sexuality) then I have no argument because to me sexuality is, feelings, urges, sexual desires and so on.

If a male had sexual thought of sleeping with another male but he never acted them out, would that make him gay? would that have been his choice not to perform them?

What I was saying was if a gay couple want a child they must think about the bullying aspect, at the end of the day it is NOT natural and people would bully them for it, I didn't say we should accept it, I said we should consider it.

Look everyone, I am not getting on the I hate gays bandwagon here, I am just pointing out the realities of life, as Rannon said people will bully you for wearing glasses sometimes so imagine if you parents were gay, in my experience you wouldn't survive and the child would be a wreck (my school and neighbourhood), it went on in my childhood and it still goes on now.
This should be considered indefinitely.

 

[DeletedUser]

What I was saying was if a gay couple want a child they must think about the bullying aspect, at the end of the day it is NOT natural and people would bully them for it, I didn't say we should accept it, I said we should consider it.

It is not natural to wear clothes.

Look everyone, I am not getting on the I hate gays bandwagon here, I am just pointing out the realities of life, as Rannon said people will bully you for wearing glasses sometimes so imagine if you parents were gay, in my experience you wouldn't survive and the child would be a wreck (my school and neighbourhood), it went on in my childhood and it still goes on now.

So Jews should not have kids when there is anti-semitism? Black people should not have kids if they might be bullied? Absolute tosh. Why let bullies set the agenda?

This should be considered indefinitely.

Do you even understand the words you type?

 

[DeletedUser]

I know it's not natural but they were designed to keep us warm, I accept it has become a design and image issue these days.
If anyone wanted to wander around naked it's up to them, the law won't allow this.

Did I mention Jews or black people?
I don't condone bullying, I acknowledge that it exists. The example you mentioned are not a choice, these people don't choose to be a specific race.

By considered indefinitely, Considered for the foreseeable future, your being pedantic.

The matter at hand is that sexuality is not a choice, so what if it is who cares, so what if it is not, I don't give a damn to be honest.
There is no sure answer to this question, only conflict, just like religion and science, there will always be friction.
As for your information there are gay people who openly admit they have chosen that path, the mental side of feelings no one can control that and it is better understood these days, it's when someone performs the act that makes it a choice, a choice to follow their gut, let people do what they want to do in the privacy of their own homes, I am not suggesting otherwise.

 

[DeletedUser17143]

Did I mention Jews or black people?
I don't condone bullying, I acknowledge that it exists. The example you mentioned are not a choice, these people don't choose to be a specific race.

Well Jewish people can choose whether they want to be Jewish or not. They could decide to follow any religion. Or no religion at all.

 

[DeletedUser]

That is true yidboi, I should have said "The example you mentioned is not a choice" I was talking about being black.
I don't know a lot the history of the Jew so didn't comment about that, I will stand corrected though.
Bullying is not right weather you believe in something others don't understand or don't want to understand, bullying is about being different from others most of the time, no one should be forced into anything, including religion, being straight or gay, the fact is people will always judge other people.

 

[DeletedUser16008]

You don't choose your sexuality any more than you choose your race, you don't even get to choose your religion until you get older especially if your Jewish or Muslim.

As to bullying its an aspect of life and comes in all forms, from personal right up to government, what is important is not to cow down to the bullies and live the life you choose. Just be prepared to deal with a lot of crap but hey its better than living how others demand you do and being unhappy.

 

[DeletedUser17143]

That is true yidboi, I should have said "The example you mentioned is not a choice" I was talking about being black.
I don't know a lot the history of the Jew so didn't comment about that, I will stand corrected though.
Bullying is not right weather you believe in something others don't understand or don't want to understand, bullying is about being different from others most of the time, no one should be forced into anything, including religion, being straight or gay, the fact is people will always judge other people.

It's fine. I understand where you are coming from. I actually agree. I mean black people have had equal rights since before any of us were born, and yet racism still survives. Homosexuality will be the same. People are generally scared of things that are different. The only way to get over our differences is to accept them. But most people seem to think it is easier to try and forcibly change others into something more similar to themselves. Or just eradication those who are different entirely. It's a sad state of affairs. But it will never change.

 

[DeletedUser]

All points considered from every post I have read, everyone is entitled to their opinion and there will always be a debate on this.
I will happily let my comments die a decent death along with this thread.

 

[DeletedUser]

... the mental side of feelings no one can control that and it is better understood these days, it's when someone performs the act that makes it a choice, a choice to follow their gut, let people do what they want to do in the privacy of their own homes, I am not suggesting otherwise.

So, you think bigots would find it acceptable for 2 men or 2 women to live as a couple as long as they don't have sex? How do other people know whether they do or not? Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you mean.

 

[DeletedUser]

Did I mention Jews or black people?
I don't condone bullying, I acknowledge that it exists. The example you mentioned are not a choice, these people don't choose to be a specific race.

As already made amply clear, homosexuality is not a choice. If you wish to continue to argue it is a choice, then you're arguing the available and presented facts of the first post in this thread.

The matter at hand is that sexuality is not a choice, so what if it is who cares, so what if it is not, I don't give a damn to be honest.

Indeed, and yet you sit there and state it is a choice and then argue that homosexuals shouldn't be allowed to rear children because of the hardships bullies may impose on their children.

Your first argument is ignoring the facts, that homosexuality is "not" a choice. Even if they are not to perform a sexual act, they are still homosexual, just as you are heterosexual despite you never having had a girlfriend (your dog doesn't count).

Your second argument is imposing limits on victims because of actions committed by criminals, which is ridiculous and you have since acknowledge just how ridiculous that is.

There is no sure answer to this question, only conflict, just like religion and science, there will always be friction.

Bullcrap. Danzeman, I have been arguing that we shouldn't allow people (criminals) to infringe on the rights and privileges of others, that same-sex marriage is a right/privilege held by heterosexual couples and denied to homosexual couples because of bible-toting bigots (bullies). Are you advocating that laws should be in place to deny rights to victims because having equal rights offends bullies?

As for your information there are gay people who openly admit they have chosen that path, the mental side of feelings no one can control that and it is better understood these days, it's when someone performs the act that makes it a choice, a choice to follow their gut, let people do what they want to do in the privacy of their own homes, I am not suggesting otherwise.

Seriously? Is your heterosexuality a path? Are you honestly going to argue that your attraction to women is a choice?

All points considered from every post I have read, everyone is entitled to their opinion and there will always be a debate on this.

Opinions that ignore facts and evidence are not opinions, they're bigoted posturing.

 

[DeletedUser16008]

I don't think Danz is really claiming anything just chatting tbh

 

[DeletedUser17143]

So, you think bigots would find it acceptable for 2 men or 2 women to live as a couple as long as they don't have sex? How do other people know whether they do or not? Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you mean.

Apparently this is what the Health service believes. Me and my friend went to give blood and he wasn't allowed to give blood because he was gay and had had intercourse with someone of the same sex. But if he had not had sex then it would have been fine for him to give blood.

 

[DeletedUser16008]

Apparently this is what the Health service believes. Me and my friend went to give blood and he wasn't allowed to give blood because he was gay and had had intercourse with someone of the same sex. But if he had not had sex then it would have been fine for him to give blood.

Thats kinda not the same, thats down to the fact that you can't tell if theres a blood infection within a certain time period. Had your friend not had sex for about 6 mths or more probably no problem if he'd been screened and clear in the last few weeks.

 

[DeletedUser]

I don't think Danz is really claiming anything just chatting tbh

Thanks Victor, that is exactly what I'm doing.

@Hellstromm......Eh? you really do not understand my views at all.
If you are gay weather it is a choice or not, there are people who will judge that child they rear and poke fun because they are part of a minority and different, is that right so far?
Most of my views are questionings not actual facts but you wade in saying WRONG this is a fact that is a fact and end up twisting things up, are you actually curious about your sexuality and justifying it haha.
Only joking but you do seem forceful about your beliefs..... oh sorry facts.

I am not a dictator or detractor and Iv'e never had sex with my dog, unless your stating my wife is a dog?

As for giving blood they asked me if I'd had anal sex with my wife, so I assume they would have turned me away if I said yes.

I got it in my head that if a person, ah I'll give an example:

John is married to Lynda, he has been married for 2 years, they have 2 children together.
John starts getting sexual feelings for his mate Big Dave but is not sure whether they are sexual or not, Big Dave actually comes out and says he is gay a few months later.

John see's his opportunity but decides not to pursue his feelings for Big Dave.
Does that make it a choice?

Mental thoughts no one can control what pops in and out of someone's head, they have a choice to act them out, sexuality also involves involvement in sexual activity, not just the mental side, if he chose not to pursue his feelings for Big Dave and in tern have no sexual contact, does that make it his choice?

I think I might be misunderstanding something here as everyone seems to disagree with me haha...... it's all fun and games though.

 

[DeletedUser16008]

And this is where things start to get murky. The instant a thought is made other thoughts appear. Immediately choice becomes available.

This is probably best done on another topic as this one has pretty much run its course,