Guide to the Damage Formula.

  • Thread starter Abigaelle Spencer
  • Start date

DeletedUser

I have tell this formula to so many friend, that i think it will be soon totaly public. That's why i'am now posting the result of my testing, and then , the exact formula.

First at all, i have to tell that half the part have been discover on german board, and if i have rediscover it in my test, i'm not the one that first did it. I'am of course talking of what everybody now know : 50% reflex works against melee weapon, and 50% toughness againts firearms.

Here is the exact formula of damage :

For melee :
Vigor / (Toughness+Reflex/2)

For Firearms :
Shooting /(Toughness/2 + Reflex)

This give a multiplier between 0 to 2 (2 is the MAX)


ATM formula don't work when defensive > attack > 100. Needing more test.
Example 1 : You have a Sharp bowie knife (32-40) damage and 50 Vigor. Your adversary have 25 Reflex and 30 toughness. Multiplier is : 50 / (30+25/2) = 1.18

On Hand you will always do : 38-47 Damage
On Shoulder you will always do (+15%) : 43-54 Damage
On Head you will always do (+50%) : 56-71 Damage


Example 2 : You have a Sharp bowie knife (32-40) damage and 50 Vigor. Your adversary have 4 Reflex and 18 toughness. Multiplier is : 50 / (18+4/2) = 2.50 => But max is "2", so multiplier is : 2.00

On Hand you will always do : 64-80 Damage
On Shoulder you will always do (+15%) : 73-92 Damage
On Head you will always do (+50%) : 96-120 Damage


What can we learn by this ?

* First at all, there is no use to have more than twice the defense of the adversary. There is no use to have more in shooting/vigor that twice the (reflex+toughness/2) or (toughness+reflex/2)

* Another thing to know : If you are going to fight a high level Vigor/shooting and have low reflex/toughness there is NO USE to take cloth with +reflex or +toughness, except if it give you at least MORE than half is skill in defense. You'd better use dodge/aim/tactics or appearance.

* Most Melee Character don't put point on toughness/reflex and think with the "base toughness" given by Strengh they are going to resist lot better than firearm dueller without Reflex... Most of time it's false because melee put one extra point / level in Vigor ... then they have with item more than twice their own toughness. This mean they wont resist to their own weapon, or maybe juste a very little few, and they do no resist to a firearm dueller with same "shooting" than their vigor. And of course, they alos wont resist to higher level dueller than them.

* If you want to go to toughness/reflex, do it really : a few is worst than nothing : you loose point.

* I will put here good advice i will see in the next debate.

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(If the exact formula have been released somewhere else before, i'am sorry to told it was mine. When i discover it i have'nt saw it anywhere).
 
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DeletedUser

I have no need to proove it. Just proove me ONE TIME it doesn't exactly work as i said. I have tested it on about 70 duels where i was knowing both side data. I don't want to post all the data here because it will not be usefull.

Please, feel free to check and test it yourself with your own duel, you will see it exactly and always work. There is only one thing i don't know for sure how point are rounded.
 

DeletedUser

I have no need to proove it. Just proove me ONE TIME it doesn't exactly work as i said. I have tested it on about 70 duels where i was knowing both side data. I don't want to post all the data here because it will not be usefull.

Please, feel free to check and test it yourself with your own duel, you will see it exactly and always work. There is only one thing i don't know for sure how point are rounded.

And I have no reason to believe you and every reason to believe the developer.../shrug.
 

DeletedUser

You can beleive who you want. But just test the formula and you will know where is the truth.
 

DeletedUser

Sorry, you're going to have to prove it by more than just your say-so. Please read this thread: http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&tl=en&u=http://forum.the-west.de/showthread.php%3Ft%3D19201%26page%3D4

Note the post by eiswiesel, the MAYOR (aka, developer).

I do know that in her formula the fact that it's a multiplier is true, checked it myself a few days/week(s) ago, most max dmg I've seen were it's wep dm*2*1,5 (twice the wep dmg on head), the rest makes sense aswell, going to check in a second on some of my duels I know the other's stats.
 
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DeletedUser

I do know that in her formula the fact that it's a multiplier is true, checked it myself a few days/week(s) ago, most max dmg I've seen were it's wep dm*2*1,5 (twice the wep dmg on head), the rest makes sense aswell, going to check in a second on some of my duels I know the other's stats.

Yeah, the other formula has the same max. That part, I'd agree is true, as well.
 

DeletedUser

Just to clarify --- this part has been confirmed by eiswisel the lead Developer of the game:

For melee opponent your net resistance is counted as your (Toughness+Reflex/2) = your Total Resistance (this is a hidden number and does not show on the duel page.)

For Firearms opponent your net resistance is counted as your (Reflex + Toughness/2) = your Total Resistance (this is a hidden number and does not show on the duel page.)

--------------

The problem with the rest of your formula as we have discussed before:

If I have 90 Toughness and my adversary has 90 Vigor or less they will do a maximum of 10-15 damage to me regardless of whether they have a Conquistador Sword or Hernandos Sword.

I have dozens of reports that can prove this ...

In general though I do agree with your advice.
 

DeletedUser

It's not my job to test your claims...but yours...

I don't proove my job because there is no way to proove it.
I can show you all the data, and you can tell me i show you what i want.
I can tell it is the exact formula, and you can tell me that i don't read it in the code so it is not sure.

The only way for YOU to believe it, is to use it.
 

DeletedUser

alright, checked the rest and it doesn't work.
tried 2 duels, 1 with romelis on known stats (his vigor is in top scores and I knew what weapon he was using)
so,
130 (his vigor) / (75+119/2) = 0,96
0,97*64 = 61
Altho, all his hits were inbetween 43 and 54 wich is 75% or so of his weapon dmg, not 96%
 

DeletedUser

You can beleive who you want. But just test the formula and you will know where is the truth.

Oh, and just for fun, and I did try the formula against a recent duel where I know the dueler's Toughness and Reflex -- they are on the leader board with each.

I obviously know my shooting and the damage of the weapon.

By your formula, I would be hitting in the 60s-70s.

I hit in the 10s-20s.

So either they changed out their gear so completely that they lost over 100 Toughness and Reflex...or, your formula is wrong.
 

DeletedUser

Adelei - thats exactly what I told Abigaelle in the other thread on this ... her formula does not fit every duel situation.

I suspect this is due to damage not being on a straight line graph.
 

DeletedUser

alright, checked the rest and it doesn't work.
tried 2 duels, 1 with romelis on known stats (his vigor is in top scores and I knew what weapon he was using)
so,
130 (his vigor) / (75+119/2) = 0,96
0,97*64 = 61
Altho, all his hits were inbetween 43 and 54 wich is 75% or so of his weapon dmg, not 96%

What is the ? 0.97*64 ?? what is your weapon base damage ? Where did you hit ? How can you show example without giving all date to test it ?
 

DeletedUser

Why damn do you take average ?

0.96*54 => 51
0.96*74 => 71
If your stats were good you should have done always between 51 to 71
I can just tell you your stats are a little wrong.
 

DeletedUser

You think I don't know my stats? I remember quite clearly looking at his vigor in highscore at that moment since I saw his hits were above average I was getting hitted.
I just think you haven't done enough experiments with different builds.
I know my stats, his vigor and his weapon and it doesn't work with your formula.
I also tried with someone else wich I knew only his vigor by writing (so not 100% sure) and it failed aswell.
 

DeletedUser

Oh no the formula is totaly exact. Anyway does'nt matter what you "think" you can remmember or so. People who need the formula will really test it with not only " reminding" but with the exact number and see it always work.
 

DeletedUser

All 3 of these players used Hernandos Sword against me - anyone on W-1 can verify that they have the sword. I can't say I know their Vigor but I can say their damage doesn't fit your formula.

forbillfargobear.jpg


forbillholysatan.jpg



lowdamage3.jpg


I have dozens of reports like this against players with the Sharp Tomahawk and Hernandos.
 

DeletedUser

I can't say I know their Vigor but I can say their damage doesn't fit your formula.

You don't know the vigor... that's the point. The damage feet the formula for low level vigor. In fact you can use the formula, your reflex and toughness to almost know their vigor.

You know that hernando is 95-125 : So min is 0.76 time max.
I haven't seen in your duel any damage that is under this max range : 39-47 fit & 9-10 fit.

Anyway, don't attempt to "proove" it works or not, with only partial data, or supposed data. Make some duels against friend that gives you his "duel sheet", and if this don't match, feel free to post the 2 duel sheet and the fight repports.
 
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