DeletedUser
Exactly. Duelers like me who are firearms spent weeks respecing to drill for oil for the colt. Now that we finally have it we shouldn't just get it taken away from us.
Exactly. Duelers like me who are firearms spent weeks respecing to drill for oil for the colt. Now that we finally have it we shouldn't just get it taken away from us.
Diggo11
Well-Known Member
Again don't get me wrong, but wasn't it you who mentioned that KOs were now becoming 'too' frequent? If you boost the lesser weapons rather than nerfing the greater ones, that will only make that problem worse. You could then give everyone more HP, but in turn that throws other things such as fort battles out of wack...
Yeah, I think you sort of caught the problem there in that respect. The beta was once for bug testing and game balance evaluation. I myself spent many hours aiding that cause, before I found myself devoting more time to manage our community instead. Now, it seems like alot of what goes on is merely just cracking secret quests before they are even released combined with other various language versions attempting to be so 1337 by pwning all others in fort battles...
DeletedUser9470
agreed, so one problem is the failure of the testers to point out how abusive these weapons can be.
i think damage done by weapons should be in direct relation to the difficulty of obtaining the weapons:
normal weapons>goldens>shinys
so imo goldens should be more powerfull than normal weapons but less powerfull than shinys.
following the levels by which you can equip them:
as an example:
hernando (level 50) damage 95-125
golden sabre (level 70) damage: 85-120
tashunkas(70) damage: 110-140
boones (75) damage: 65-205
grants (80) damage: 120-164
bold is what i have made up myself.
u need to keep the carrot phenomenon going, if theres nothing to achieve in getting something then no one is bothered in trying to get it. as simple as.
i think damage done by weapons should be in direct relation to the difficulty of obtaining the weapons:
normal weapons>goldens>shinys
so imo goldens should be more powerfull than normal weapons but less powerfull than shinys.
following the levels by which you can equip them:
as an example:
hernando (level 50) damage 95-125
golden sabre (level 70) damage: 85-120
tashunkas(70) damage: 110-140
boones (75) damage: 65-205
grants (80) damage: 120-164
bold is what i have made up myself.
u need to keep the carrot phenomenon going, if theres nothing to achieve in getting something then no one is bothered in trying to get it. as simple as.
Last edited by a moderator:
Diggo11
Well-Known Member
One could argue it is that 'phenomenon' that caused the golden set problem in the first place, in that to make the quests continuously desirable they have to add increasingly overpowered weapons. If you agree it's a problem, you sorta have to agree by default that such a roadmap is not sustainable.
DeletedUser16008
I do think KOs are too frequent but only due to the goldens ... lets face it if the other weapons were improved there wouldnt be much change seeing as most hard core duelers only use the goldens now... all that may happen is those same duelers might end up on the end of a ko more often seeing as they are the ones running around dueling mostly.... no bad thing
no need to give more hp the pants and belts sort that out...
Diggo11
Well-Known Member
The belts and pants also give more shooting, vigour and aim…
I guess if you 'fix' it, I'd just personally rather you go the whole lot rather than leave it half way. Also, boosting all weapons except the golden ones will probably just draw a similar anger to nerfing only the golden set, except it doesn't also fix the perceived KO issue. On the other hand, it would potentially make things like Belle Starrs' less over powered too, hmm...
I guess if you 'fix' it, I'd just personally rather you go the whole lot rather than leave it half way. Also, boosting all weapons except the golden ones will probably just draw a similar anger to nerfing only the golden set, except it doesn't also fix the perceived KO issue. On the other hand, it would potentially make things like Belle Starrs' less over powered too, hmm...
DeletedUser16008
Cant put the genie back in the bottle so nerfing the existing weapons etc isnt an option...
The simple truth is around a year or so ago they gave away belle stars .... way overpowered and started a trend and extended it to the goldens.. Pants and belts does go some way to addressing the lack of HP to avoid KOs in one duel. Having greater vigor or shooting does not increase the damage done after a while anyway its there to combat the resist builds and jobbing. But yes its better HP are made greater by giving all classes the soldier hp bonus and say doubling the hp bonus for soldiers they have atm ...increase the other regular damage weapons and the top named weapons above the goldens to give them what they had back, a reputation & something to be sought after.
Things were far batter before they started releasing super weapons & the only way to fix it is to increase the hp base to counter the error of that.
Finally cap the max HP anyone can have at 5000 to stop the tank problems in fort battles its also well overdue for sorting out
The simple truth is around a year or so ago they gave away belle stars .... way overpowered and started a trend and extended it to the goldens.. Pants and belts does go some way to addressing the lack of HP to avoid KOs in one duel. Having greater vigor or shooting does not increase the damage done after a while anyway its there to combat the resist builds and jobbing. But yes its better HP are made greater by giving all classes the soldier hp bonus and say doubling the hp bonus for soldiers they have atm ...increase the other regular damage weapons and the top named weapons above the goldens to give them what they had back, a reputation & something to be sought after.
Things were far batter before they started releasing super weapons & the only way to fix it is to increase the hp base to counter the error of that.
Finally cap the max HP anyone can have at 5000 to stop the tank problems in fort battles its also well overdue for sorting out
DeletedUser26856
Speaking of Belle Star's...and say, Hernando's....can anyone remember a time when the devs introduced a new, strong weapon that *didn't* cause a bunch of people to start whining about how that OP weapon was ruining the game? Anyone?
Hernando's sword: DIDN'T ruin the game, DIDN'T even ruin dueling, DIDN'T mean the end of ranged duelers.
Belle Star's Derringer: DIDN'T ruin the game, DIDN'T even ruin dueling, DIDN'T mean the end of melee duelers.
Yet I guarantee you that if you do a search on this forum you will find people insisting that those weapons would do both of those things.
All I'm saying is, I'd be able to take this thread more seriously if people didn't whine about how Inno has ruined the game every single time a new weapon is added to the game.
As to the OP's specific points:
1.) honestly I don't really even understand this point. You could arbitrarily decide to duel someone with a worse weapon than your "best" weapon before, but you can't now? This sounds like it's just a really bad, awkward way of trying to get at the same point you made in #2:
2.) More KOs? Sure - that's because the golden weapons have been around longer than the level cap raise and the new pants/belts. If the golden weapons hadn't been introduced, how easy do you think it would be to KO a level 120 resistance dueler with the weapons already in the game? My guess: completely impossible.
3.) You "remember the day of being weary of a sharp lumberjack axe" - why is that? Why you weary of Sharp lumberjack axes? Oh! Was it because they were the strongest weapon that was easy to get? Whoa, it's almost like....there's always been a "strongest" weapon and everyone who could get it all equipped the same thing. Your whining about how "blah blah blah everyone has the same thing equipped I wish I could still use Hernando's" basically completely ignores how back in the day when Hernando's was the strongest weapon, you could make all three of these exact same points about Hernando's.
I agree with anyone who thinks that the golden weapons should probably have the highest level requirement of any weapons in the game...but that's about all the nerf needed, IMO. There's always going to be a "best" weapon, everyone's always going to want to use it. At the very least, Inno seems to have learned from past lessons and made an identical melee and ranged "best" weapon so nobody can moan about that.
Hernando's sword: DIDN'T ruin the game, DIDN'T even ruin dueling, DIDN'T mean the end of ranged duelers.
Belle Star's Derringer: DIDN'T ruin the game, DIDN'T even ruin dueling, DIDN'T mean the end of melee duelers.
Yet I guarantee you that if you do a search on this forum you will find people insisting that those weapons would do both of those things.
All I'm saying is, I'd be able to take this thread more seriously if people didn't whine about how Inno has ruined the game every single time a new weapon is added to the game.
As to the OP's specific points:
1.) honestly I don't really even understand this point. You could arbitrarily decide to duel someone with a worse weapon than your "best" weapon before, but you can't now? This sounds like it's just a really bad, awkward way of trying to get at the same point you made in #2:
2.) More KOs? Sure - that's because the golden weapons have been around longer than the level cap raise and the new pants/belts. If the golden weapons hadn't been introduced, how easy do you think it would be to KO a level 120 resistance dueler with the weapons already in the game? My guess: completely impossible.
3.) You "remember the day of being weary of a sharp lumberjack axe" - why is that? Why you weary of Sharp lumberjack axes? Oh! Was it because they were the strongest weapon that was easy to get? Whoa, it's almost like....there's always been a "strongest" weapon and everyone who could get it all equipped the same thing. Your whining about how "blah blah blah everyone has the same thing equipped I wish I could still use Hernando's" basically completely ignores how back in the day when Hernando's was the strongest weapon, you could make all three of these exact same points about Hernando's.
I agree with anyone who thinks that the golden weapons should probably have the highest level requirement of any weapons in the game...but that's about all the nerf needed, IMO. There's always going to be a "best" weapon, everyone's always going to want to use it. At the very least, Inno seems to have learned from past lessons and made an identical melee and ranged "best" weapon so nobody can moan about that.
Last edited by a moderator:
DeletedUser9470
I agree with what you say on hernandos, it isnt that widespread a weapon and the chances of being hit by one were nowhere near the chances of being hit, say, by a golden. after nearly 2 years of playing this game i finally managed to get hold of hernando, shame it was only 2 weeks before i got a golden.
what you say about belles though is wrong, its a very easy weapon to get, if you are a ranged dueller and didnt manage to get belles then i would advise that you find a game with "2-4yrs" written down the side of it to play.
as for whining about inno ruining the game every time a new weapon is added, well i cant remember them adding any before the goldens, shinys have always been there to be discovered. so wtf are you talking about?
wtf are you saying about my points? quite clearly you havent fully understood them.
1 - Before goldens, indeed, I could choose to equip a razor to hit a builder, i would do this quite often. i would have a few incomings whilst i did this but it was very rare i get caught out, and in fact it only happened once.
now, should i try to do so i would get a lot more incomings, all of them golden equipped.
i hope you now understand that unequipping the golden to hit a builder is now a no-go zone.
"Sorry matey builder for i just kod you again! its nothing personal im just going for stats."
" what? ur quitting??!" <---the sad truth of golden duelling...
2 - Hitting a resist with a golden or anything else has little effect, to be able to do any kind of damage to a full resist you are going to need at least 200 vigor. as u might know i am a pure duelist and against a resist, hitting 30 damage a pop with my golden gets me nowhere. so saying that goldens counter resist is completely wrong and is a statement that you havent verified at all. resist was impossible to beat, and still is. in fact now that they have a golden and pants with Huge aim it is even more impossible!!!
what a noob comment you made there!
3 - before goldens, hernando was the easiest "best" weapon to get. but it was still a pretty complex series of quests for which you have to be lucky. as such not everyone has it. BUT, getting a golden is very easy, to get the golden sabre i had to respec 6 points so i could do charlatan job. it took me 2 days from start to finish to get the golden.
if you had been around for a bit, you would remember that sharp axes could inflict HUGE damage. goldens now make that weapon a joke. anyone with anything else but golden tends to be an easy target.
I put this post up in the interest of the game, in the interest of you builders and adventurers and others who arent interested in duelling. for your own sakes.
there is a huge issu with this golden, and i shouldnt be the one pointing it out, you should.
I am more than happy getting 20 kos a day.
Im waiting to see how long it takes all of these builders/workers/noob duellers to go find another game to play.
what you say about belles though is wrong, its a very easy weapon to get, if you are a ranged dueller and didnt manage to get belles then i would advise that you find a game with "2-4yrs" written down the side of it to play.
as for whining about inno ruining the game every time a new weapon is added, well i cant remember them adding any before the goldens, shinys have always been there to be discovered. so wtf are you talking about?
wtf are you saying about my points? quite clearly you havent fully understood them.
1 - Before goldens, indeed, I could choose to equip a razor to hit a builder, i would do this quite often. i would have a few incomings whilst i did this but it was very rare i get caught out, and in fact it only happened once.
now, should i try to do so i would get a lot more incomings, all of them golden equipped.
i hope you now understand that unequipping the golden to hit a builder is now a no-go zone.
"Sorry matey builder for i just kod you again! its nothing personal im just going for stats."
" what? ur quitting??!" <---the sad truth of golden duelling...
2 - Hitting a resist with a golden or anything else has little effect, to be able to do any kind of damage to a full resist you are going to need at least 200 vigor. as u might know i am a pure duelist and against a resist, hitting 30 damage a pop with my golden gets me nowhere. so saying that goldens counter resist is completely wrong and is a statement that you havent verified at all. resist was impossible to beat, and still is. in fact now that they have a golden and pants with Huge aim it is even more impossible!!!
what a noob comment you made there!
3 - before goldens, hernando was the easiest "best" weapon to get. but it was still a pretty complex series of quests for which you have to be lucky. as such not everyone has it. BUT, getting a golden is very easy, to get the golden sabre i had to respec 6 points so i could do charlatan job. it took me 2 days from start to finish to get the golden.
if you had been around for a bit, you would remember that sharp axes could inflict HUGE damage. goldens now make that weapon a joke. anyone with anything else but golden tends to be an easy target.
I put this post up in the interest of the game, in the interest of you builders and adventurers and others who arent interested in duelling. for your own sakes.
there is a huge issu with this golden, and i shouldnt be the one pointing it out, you should.
I am more than happy getting 20 kos a day.
Im waiting to see how long it takes all of these builders/workers/noob duellers to go find another game to play.
Last edited by a moderator:
DeletedUser16008
I suspect nooblet above has missed the point of the thread entirely... as you just pointed out. You as am I and a good number of the posters here are DUELERS and in all honesty shouldn't really care about it as its all to our advantage.
Working for a year or so to get a note for Hernandoes is not even on the same page as opening belles quest on a specific day of the week ...( terribly hard ) :laugh: or buying a lump of dirt or metal and getting a golden in 2 days or so start to finish ... ( very very hard )
Its funny but if Tobenoid bothered to read the posts properly hed maybe come to the conclusion there is no whining here only an observation made by the very class it least affects... or could that be because hes finally gotten a golden and now sees himself as a would be hero ?
As for the resist at lvl 120 etc argument I assure you a shooting of over 300 or so with a Precise buntine will KO a resist in a couple of duels no problem
Working for a year or so to get a note for Hernandoes is not even on the same page as opening belles quest on a specific day of the week ...( terribly hard ) :laugh: or buying a lump of dirt or metal and getting a golden in 2 days or so start to finish ... ( very very hard )
Its funny but if Tobenoid bothered to read the posts properly hed maybe come to the conclusion there is no whining here only an observation made by the very class it least affects... or could that be because hes finally gotten a golden and now sees himself as a would be hero ?
As for the resist at lvl 120 etc argument I assure you a shooting of over 300 or so with a Precise buntine will KO a resist in a couple of duels no problem
Diggo11
Well-Known Member
Hehe, you're telling me...
DeletedUser
The way I see it is that criticisms have been raised for discussion in a reasonable and justifiable manner. To call that a "whine" is a bit of a stretch and not far from trolling. If every objection is labelled a "whine" then we may as well all stop reading & writing in the forums - remember, every community-suggested improvement began as a "whine" somewhere if you give the word such a wide remit.
I think it's poor manners to address fellow-gamers in this fashion and, ultimately, reflects badly on the poster rather than their intended target. If you can't phrase something in a non-offensive way then I think it is better to keep it to yourself.
(Please + or - rep me for this post and I'll know how other contributors feel.)
DeletedUser
easy version,,just stay outta forums/community and just keep it in your town/alliance,theres a reason why 99% of players have nothing to do with this forum
DeletedUser16008
Hmm lets see about golden colt and how hard it is to get one...
W8 adventurer got fed up with being dueled by goldens & me with only a precise buntline so... time for a golden colt
Day 1 bought lump for 3k
soft yellow leg guards 16K
washed in river sorted
worked for hammer all night got it.
FMS 100 have it already
put on best kit for oil and respec remaining 8 sp points needed, total cost because id been holding 3 AP and 15 SP as i hadnt needed them before was $810
currently drilling oil and about to go onto day 2
all thats left is transport ammo until below 30% got the gold nuggets already and there you go...
Max estimated time will be around 4 days as im not prem either...
After that i expect ill be able to respec all points used for the golden colt for $ 6420
Total cost about 25k and no more than a week start to finish if beginning with no products needed...
Arizona currently have Wyatt Earpes Buntline but it is sad to say outpointed by the golden colt especially on attack so i have to go and get one there too so
Day 1 bought lump 2k
soft yellow leg guards 16K
Green bullet belt 13k
washed in river sorted
got hammer + 100 FMS
waiting to level in 2 days allowing use of Green Bullet Belt for best kit before respec for oil approx cost 2K
In the meantime transport ammo to reduce motive on it and prospecting ..
Again from start to finish with nothing it will cost me a weeks time no more and approx 35k in kit and respec.
& thats whats wrong with the golden colt quest... no effort for the biggest damage weapon in the game and less than a week in time.... you want it go get it & hey presto off you go any time any day of the week.
Even easier now the shaman can be reset on all worlds bar w1.
Update 3/2/11
Got goldens on both worlds and respecced back to where I was before i started... no big deal
W8 adventurer got fed up with being dueled by goldens & me with only a precise buntline so... time for a golden colt
Day 1 bought lump for 3k
soft yellow leg guards 16K
washed in river sorted
worked for hammer all night got it.
FMS 100 have it already
put on best kit for oil and respec remaining 8 sp points needed, total cost because id been holding 3 AP and 15 SP as i hadnt needed them before was $810
currently drilling oil and about to go onto day 2
all thats left is transport ammo until below 30% got the gold nuggets already and there you go...
Max estimated time will be around 4 days as im not prem either...
After that i expect ill be able to respec all points used for the golden colt for $ 6420
Total cost about 25k and no more than a week start to finish if beginning with no products needed...
Arizona currently have Wyatt Earpes Buntline but it is sad to say outpointed by the golden colt especially on attack so i have to go and get one there too so
Day 1 bought lump 2k
soft yellow leg guards 16K
Green bullet belt 13k
washed in river sorted
got hammer + 100 FMS
waiting to level in 2 days allowing use of Green Bullet Belt for best kit before respec for oil approx cost 2K
In the meantime transport ammo to reduce motive on it and prospecting ..
Again from start to finish with nothing it will cost me a weeks time no more and approx 35k in kit and respec.
& thats whats wrong with the golden colt quest... no effort for the biggest damage weapon in the game and less than a week in time.... you want it go get it & hey presto off you go any time any day of the week.
Even easier now the shaman can be reset on all worlds bar w1.
Update 3/2/11
Got goldens on both worlds and respecced back to where I was before i started... no big deal
Last edited by a moderator:
DeletedUser
I am just going to say I miss the days where the best weapons were Hernando's and Precise Buntline. The golden weapons get acquired much too simply and I don't like it too much.
DeletedUser
Lol, when the quest was released it waas the hardest quest to figure out how to do it. But when we figured it out it´s almost piece of cake..
DeletedUser
Definitely, the trouble with the golden colt and saber is that instead of being rare and unique items they are now more like a must have for a successful high-level dueler. This also leaves worthless all the other good weapons out there.
I feel like it's time for some new and better weapons to arrive, that would be much harder to get.
I feel like it's time for some new and better weapons to arrive, that would be much harder to get.
DeletedUser
But when we crack those EVEN harder ones.. by time those will become easy too...
DeletedUser22685
I think he means not only hard to crack, but hard to achieve once cracked. Such as the golden gun, it's very much based on luck and dedication to working a seemingly thankless job for hours on end.
DeletedUser9470
i think we could have quests like hernandos sword quest, it depends on a luck drop and a series of events that if you get wrong...
i quite like that, if the quests for the others (billys, grants etc...) were known and as hard or even harder than the hernando quest then it would be a lot fairer, all down to hard work and dedication, not a simple 2 day quest...
goldens, i reckon either get rid of them, or lower their damage.
i quite like that, if the quests for the others (billys, grants etc...) were known and as hard or even harder than the hernando quest then it would be a lot fairer, all down to hard work and dedication, not a simple 2 day quest...
goldens, i reckon either get rid of them, or lower their damage.