Fort Battle Class Adjustment

[DeletedUser]

I like this idea

How about a twist: make hp the only limiting factor... (except squares to start in ofc)

Something like small max 120K/150K, medium 200K/250K and large 360K/450K and then you can put as many or as few fighters as you want.

/Edlit

 

[DeletedUser563]

ok firefly that sounds more reasonable. edlit if you do that then later it will became how many players (guns ) you can squeeze in vs your enemy. Good fort fighters will disappear as 40 FF at 500 hp can do more damage than their 2000 hp equivalent which would be 10 FF at 2000 HP. I think what is needed is a big brainstorming session over fort fighting specs etc.

 

[DeletedUser]

I tend not to get involved in these discussions too much, however, I have read over what has been posted and there are several good ideas coming from it so far.

However, as much as HP is the current scourge of fort battles at the moment and the relevant combatant to this being the Duelers Critical Hits, we also cannot overlook the part played by Adventurers.

In W11 yesterday I was a part of a successful attack on a Medium Fort whereby an advent with steroid abuse successfully avoided 40+ defenders while they wandered to the flag and held it for 4 rounds before getting help from the rest of the bemused attackers. As far as I can see, this cannot be right and we may be looking at this problem all wrong.

Granted, I am all for any changes that make the fort fighting better, however, IMO most of the problems started when the boxes were introduced and far too many got greedy and started looking at ways they can top the charts to get there hands on them. Peter has highlighted already who gets what and I dont see that being any different. Boxes should be a surprise, not an expected reward.

I would be in favour of a reduction in the "special attributes" for ALL parties at fort fights and an increase in the values of the genuine fort fighting stats - Leadership, Stamina, Hiding, Aim and Dodging. HP will certainly still be a benefit to have but if the other stats were improved then they would be more likely to take more damage from people shooting at them without the need for critical hits for everyone (although it is an interesting concept).

From what I have seen recently tho, battles are getting won not from Duelers and their Critical Damage that many have pointed out, but from HP tanks (original post) and Advent bonuses, so an overhaul of Fort Battles might be in order. Mix the 2 together as a Premium advent tank and you have a one man army at hand.
I will leave a few suggestions of my own to be ponderred:

1/ Duelers - Critical hits to be determined by level of player 0-10 = 1% of total, 11-20 = 2% of total and so on with 90 - 120 being the current 10% it is at the moment.
2/ Advent - Bonus to be 10%/20% rather than the current level of 25%/50%
3/ Soldiers - Leadership bonus is removed - they already have a bonus from health, why have 2 bonuses.
4/ Workers - Not heard or seen anything to date that would lead me to change them at the moment.
5/ Fort Fighting stats to be improved to help level the HP playing field (I will leave people with a higher understanding of maths to work out the levels)
6/ HP - I see this as being a factor at all battles and we can tweak other things to counter this. In terms of the whole game, High HP players are already hampered for quests/jobs and we have to look at the whole game when you are talking about basic stats as Fort fighting is only a part of the overall game (I know this topic is specific to fort fighting)
7/ Boxes are distributed randomly and in relation to your level (silly that a level 30 person can get clothing/weapons that they cannot use for 60+ levels) rather than the top dogs, who are the same at every battle. This might also stop the far too many people who "hide" and go along way to make fort fighting better and a team participation again.

I have many many more, but there is a time and place for them and I have taken up too much time already.

 

[DeletedUser22493]

First off, it was pretty much the defending sides fault that they let a offliner wander on to your flag, while the fort was still full of defenders. The attacking side was going "omg" just as much as you guys did.

Ill agree that the chest drop formula is somewhat unbalanced. Because the only way to get a box is to either dodge allot, or do allot of damage.
That pretty much leaves Soldiers and Duelers with most of the reward.
Advents only feature is "ghosting", which still is a pretty useless feature to most of us, because "Ghosting" is not rewarded. (Other then perhaps winning the fort, but who cares..?)

 

[DeletedUser]

However, as much as HP is the current scourge of fort battles at the moment and the relevant combatant to this being the Duelers Critical Hits, we also cannot overlook the part played by Adventurers.

In W11 yesterday I was a part of a successful attack on a Medium Fort whereby an advent with steroid abuse successfully avoided 40+ defenders while they wandered to the flag and held it for 4 rounds before getting help from the rest of the bemused attackers. As far as I can see, this cannot be right and we may be looking at this problem all wrong.

Fat (high health) advent would be as affected by the "everyone has a crit" as much as fat soldiers'. I can assure you that if everyone had the ability to inflict crits, then that advent wouldn't have lasted as long as he did. The original proposed solution also hits advents hard too - even though no-one much discussed that.

-- Pete. (a fat advent)

 

[DeletedUser23629]

Thanks a lot for coming in here and giving your thoughts on the matter Hull.

I like a lot of what you suggested and your reasons behind it. Here is my only two questions that go along with what you suggested.

1) If you lower advents bonus's anymore, then they are basically without any advantage whatsoever. I don't think them ghosting to take flags is really that huge of a problem if everyone had a chance at landing a critical on them. If it stays the same but their % is lowered, then what advantage does an advent really have?

2) I like how the boxes are distributed right now, as it makes the most sense. If you land the most hits, have the most dodges, it kinda makes sense you get the box. If they were to become random, then I fear people will be getting them so often that they lose their rarity. For example, if a battle was lop-sided from the beginning with 20 attackers and 100 defenders, then someone could still get a box that battle out of randomness. The current system doesn't allow this to happen.

Thanks again for everyone's input. The more people we get posting their ideas, the higher the chances of us coming up with a good solution and getting it passed on.

 

[DeletedUser]

How about a twist: make hp the only limiting factor... (except squares to start in ofc)

Something like small max 120K/150K, medium 200K/250K and large 360K/450K and then you can put as many or as few fighters as you want.

Different...interesting...kind of interesting. Completely unrelated to this idea though. If you want to develop it, it should be in a different thread.

 

[DeletedUser]

Fort Battle Class Adjustment

Proposal
The purpose of this idea is to help create balance within fort battles. There is obviously a big advantage currently for the dueler class and there is a huge importance on health points. This idea would hopefully balance the damage done among the classes and bring down the number of pure health point tanks.

Details
(the wording could be more clear and obviously tweeked)

1) Remove the dueler class fort advantage of landing a critical hit.

2) Add a 5%-10% possible critical hit for ALL classes (excluding green horns). This cannot be raised with premium, it will be a set value depending on some testing. If 5% is too low, maybe try 10%.

3) Add a new advantage for duelers class. They have the option of not only sector targeting, but they can aim a particular player. They can target a player 1 sector away without premium, and 2 sectors with premium.

Summary
I believe there needs to be a change with fort fighting to better balance out the classes and the importance of health points. I also understand some players maybe upset if they picked a dueler just because of the current advantage, but I think they too will agree that the new advantage is also a powerful one.

Administration
Does this idea meet the Ideas Guidelines & Criteria? Yes/No
Does this idea appear on any of the Previously Suggested Ideas List? Yes/No

Love this idea, just hope the developers would read this.

 

[DeletedUser]

I'd forgotten about this:

Roadmap 2011

Higher Character Class Bonuses
Character class bonuses will be improved. We are considering creating 'so many' bonuses per class and allowing them to select one upon reaching every tenth level. More diversity and balance will be created.

Maybe we'll all have a chance to choose crits as a bonus.

 

[DeletedUser]

I haven't been on this forum for years so forgive me for using my old game name, some of you will know me more as K E N T Y.
I'd like to say first off that it's great that anyone is trying to think of ways to improve this game for everyone so fair play. As usual, some of us (Joxer) are being negative but, the only ridiculous thing around here is someone's (Joxer) spelling
I love the idea of being able to change classes every 10 or 20 levels though not sure about what would happen as regards to evening the battles out. Also the cap on HP as to which size fort the battle is at would be great. I think that would end up making both sides almost exactly the same where HP is concerned so it would be back to tactics and players skill and in turn back to us killing W11 again
I imagine the men upstairs will be working changing some bonuses for classes now anyway due to the change of dueling skills. I mean, I usually pick a soldier for the +100% tactics in a duel bonus, don't ask me why, I guess it just makes me feel safe haha.
I'm thinking maybe we could have a cap on the amount of a players HP that could be taken by crits, maybe 50% or whatever so once you've lost half of your HP, there's no more chance of getting a crit hit on you? I dunno, I had to think of something....

 

[DeletedUser28620]

.
I'm thinking maybe we could have a cap on the amount of a players HP that could be taken by crits, maybe 50% or whatever so once you've lost half of your HP, there's no more chance of getting a crit hit on you? I dunno, I had to think of something....

Wouldnìt it be more simple to just make the crits take 10% of the Current HP instead of Max HP? This way if you have 12k max hp but u are left with 1500 hp you wont be killed by 1 crit.

 

[DeletedUser22493]

Im all for that.

 

[DeletedUser]

me too, if it was paired with the battle cap on hp, otherwise joxer would go on a rampage

 

[DeletedUser]

Having participated in fort battles for the past month and comparing those to the battles of 8 months ago when I was last active, it is obvious that there is a serious imbalance in the relative value of fort fighting skills. High health is clearly valued over any other skill and fort battles are decided by which force has the greater number of tanks. I am all for a reworking of the fort fighting skill calculations and bonuses. I personally feel that a tweaking of the bonus calculation (increasing the exponential to .5 or higher) is the most likely to change the current perceived benefit of high health over other skills.
As an aside, perhaps being a tank should make it harder for you to hide behind hitching posts and water barrels. (a graduated penalty to defense calculation with health exceeding say 6000) It seems the bigger you are, the easier a target you would make.

 

[DeletedUser]

me too, if it was paired with the battle cap on hp, otherwise joxer would go on a rampage

Huh?
I'm not sure what are you exactly talking about, but HP cap idea already exists in this section, it was added by HelenBack, and of course, I've said yes on it (both the base idea and later suggestions made by other players on soft cap formulae).

The rampage is needed only in extreme cases like skillbuying premium was, in this case of trying to overpower soldiers it's not needed. Devs are not stupid, y'know.

 

[DeletedUser]

idk something along the lines of soldiers will still last longer or w/e.
hp cap proposed by helenback was for the individual player, battle hp cap is for a whole side, which allows for tanks but makes having 12k hp less useful.

 

[DeletedUser]

Wouldnìt it be more simple to just make the crits take 10% of the Current HP instead of Max HP? This way if you have 12k max hp but u are left with 1500 hp you wont be killed by 1 crit.

Yes mate, that would probably be better... Like I said, I had to think of something to say other than just agreeing with you guys haha.

I love the words that Elmyr added from Diggo11. That sounds amazing. Being able to pick whatever fort/character bonus you'd like from a list would be very interesting indeed and although it wouldn't sort out the HP issue, it would certainly balance things out somewhat.

 

[DeletedUser]

I love the words that Elmyr added from Diggo11. That sounds amazing. Being able to pick whatever fort/character bonus you'd like from a list would be very interesting indeed and although it wouldn't sort out the HP issue, it would certainly balance things out somewhat.

Although I guess if it's implemented any time soon depends on if zet was working on it before he was transferred.

 

[DeletedUser20579]

I vote NO for this idea.

This idea will be worse then the golden gun sector bonus and nerf the dueler class back to it's old self. This idea will decrease activity and increase hiders.

Health points win battles, not duelers. No matter what you change, health will always determine the winner.

It sounds to me like two separate issues.

Issue 1: A health cap limit. Soft, hard, or one of the other ideas posted here.
A health cap limit conveniently lowers a duelers damage also.

Issue 2: Duelers dominating the boxes. Resolution, make the boxes a bit more random.

Although I don't agree with this idea, it's nice to see an idea creative enough to stir this much emotion.

 

[DeletedUser]

Considering the virtual libraries of magnum opus here, I'll keep this short and sweet.

It's already quite balanced.
Soldiers have leadership and sector bonuses, not to mention juggernaut tanks.
Builders and Adventurers can do what other classes cannot.
Duelers, deal in lead.
Nuff said.

The "mark" ability is a valuable suggestion.
Whether or not it is a skill for all or for whom is worth evaluating. If ANYONE deserves a called-shot ability in FF it is most definitely those who will ride 8 drudging hours one way to shoot a mark, ignoring distractions to make that killing shot, and back. And to spell it out s-l-o-w-l-y for those victims of coolaid, I was referring to DUELERS.


Soldiers already have their hurrah in health points.
Duelers like myself are not whining about it, for after all, it has been said eloquently, it's better to give than to receive.

I am Jack's smirking revenge.

This entire post disgusts me and smacks of communism-green-eyed-envy.
The whole you want your cake and you want to eat it as well.


You're either a dueler and give better damage, or a soldier and take better damage.
Don't choose soldier for OBVIOUS mine-is-bigger-than-yours reasons and then bloody whine about it with this asinine post.

Duelers do the sticking, and soldiers the stucking, and that's that.