Fort Battle Class Adjustment

[DeletedUser9470]

It's already quite balanced.
Soldiers have leadership and sector bonuses, not to mention juggernaut tanks.
Builders and Adventurers can do what other classes cannot.
Duelers, deal in lead.
Nuff said.

I must be playing a completely different the-west from you!
soldiers don't have sector bonuses in the one I play.

Also in my game above level 80
(10hp/sp + 25% lead bonus) ≠ (+10% speed + 10% overpowered crit hits +15 minute duel range + perception)
and by miles...
as you can see, in my game dueler is way overpowered.

that said, i now feel it should stay this way, i pointed this "fantastically overpowered for duelers" issu out months ago and no one cba to back me up.
So tough!
now everyone will be a duelist in all new worlds.
seems to me all here prefer to cry after, rather than work on prevention.
*claps* *points* and *laughs* @ all of you.

 

[DeletedUser23629]

Another player who comes in that can't take 5 minutes to read before they post. This was not started because of "crying of our decision not to pick dueler." Learn to read THEN post.

Anyhow, thanks a lot for all the other players that came in and gave their opinions!

 

[DeletedUser30224]

Duelers do the sticking, and soldiers the stucking, and that's that.

Thank you for pointing that out Genius ... really?
It's good to know that we will soon (sooner maybe than later) be able to select our own bonuses...and there goes it again, maybe the bonuses should change a bit? maybe stay the same, I can live with my 7k HP advent, or 7k HP anything as it is, it is my choice to do that, and I like it, I ghost, last much longer than a soldier, the boxes ... well we leave them all for duelers but life is good, nobody is going out of their way to prize duelers ... at least not in my part of the world ... the true fort fighters are soldiers and adventurers ... workers have the same option, but they are the third class in HP and the last ones...the hiders, the non-team players, all mighty Duelers. But guess what, all classes can be 7k HP if they want to do it like that.

Sorry this is not constructive to this thread in any way...I will try to come back with some kind of an idea ... the best ones so far that I read is to eliminate all fort bonuses and everybody will be happy ... except allmighty duelers of course...no more boxes hiders he he

 

[DeletedUser]

everybody will be happy ... except allmighty duelers of course...no more boxes hiders he he

what world are you exactly referring to?
yes there is a certain player on w12, dueler, who does that. however on w13 duelers don't play like that. they participate in blocking, moving, sniping and tanking whenever possible. which means, it's not about the class itself. it's about the certain player. or a few of them.
which brings your solution, of turning off all fort bonuses, not desirable.

 

[DeletedUser23629]

Duelers have top damages across the board. If you want to argue this simple fact, please vist www.westforts.com. I think we are all passed this fact.

Now here are the issues with duelers getting this advantage. (In order of importance)
1) The highest damage typically gets the most/better boxes.
2) The highest damage typically gets the most experience.
3) The rest of the players that play this game, compare themselves on westforts based on damage. Don't you think the best players should be represented on this website? Or should it just be whoever picked duelers class?

Now here's the other issue we are fighting; the over-powering effect of health points in a battle. How fun is it really to have to focus everything you have on health points? There's nobody that plays the game that says its fun to neglect every skill point, all strategy, and to simply stack on one skill to be the best.

There's no way people can say they thoroughly enjoy battles because they have more health points than everyone else. Strategy is over-rated and teamwork sucks.

That's why we play the game, because we don't believe this. Fort battles are designed for strategy and teamwork and that's why so many of us keep coming back for more.

I wish people could step back and stop being selfish for 10 minutes to re-evaluate what they are doing. Couldn't it be more fun if the outcome of a battle was more heavily depended on the strategy, on how your player is skilled, how the leader commands the battle, and how players work together for a common goal?

I feel like too many are walking away with the issue saying "Who cares? I got my experience and my box."

 

[DeletedUser]

The deal with westforts is that it only has one metric, which is based on damage. That one metric isn't the sole determining factor of your fort fighting prowess. Would be better if there were different metrics available in addition to just damage. But this still doesn't solve the issue of duelers getting 'all' of the boxes.

This is a really nice thread with lots of ideas bouncing around and I wish the devs would read this. Diggo11, I really have to call you out on this: are you doing your job to bring things like this to them? You probably are, but we, the players, aren't really cognizant of that since you don't even bother to say, "yea, they'll take a look at it." I for one, don't mind if this is shot down since the devs have the final say. I do mind if it feels like I'm just talking to a wall, as it seems to be the case, lately. Please say something, anything, to let us players know your heart is still beating!

 

[DeletedUser22685]

This is a really nice thread with lots of ideas bouncing around and I wish the devs would read this. Diggo11, I really have to call you out on this: are you doing your job to bring things like this to them? You probably are, but we, the players, aren't really cognizant of that since you don't even bother to say, "yea, they'll take a look at it." I for one, don't mind if this is shot down since the devs have the final say. I do mind if it feels like I'm just talking to a wall, as it seems to be the case, lately. Please say something, anything, to let us players know your heart is still beating!

It's not up to Diggo, ideas first have to go through a voting process in the I&B section. Diggo doesn't just pick ideas he likes and sends them through to the devs. In fact, he isn't even in charge of creating the Development Discussion polls.

 

[DeletedUser]

Chill Rice, once the original poster (doesn't have to be the OP, but it's curteous to allow the OP to determine when) is satisfied with the dialog and development of an idea, they post in this thread --> http://forum.the-west.net/showthread.php?t=31017 , at which point the proposal is reviewed and a poll is initiated (as indicated on that thread).

Until such time, a proposal continues to undergo discussion and development.

 

[DeletedUser]

Ok, I'm chill now
Who is in charge of the minor ideas?

 

[DeletedUser23629]

I have made changes to the original post. Please go back and read them, and if you want something changed please post in here.

Otherwise, we need to get this onto the next step in the process. Let's get cracking people

 

[DeletedUser9470]

Man, I think you are trying to make too many "adjustments" in 1 go.
plus some "adjustments" you make go against balancing out fort battles.

1) Remove the dueler class fort advantage of landing a critical hit.
supposedly?... i dont really know why? but go on...

2) Add a possible critical hit for ALL classes (excluding green horns). Why exclude greenhorns? isnt there enough incentive to not stay greenhorn?
This cannot be raised with premium, it will be a set value depending on some testing. If a 5% chance to land a critical hit is too low, maybe try 10%. The critical hit will deduct 10% of the players CURRENT health points and not their total health points.
ok so basically everyone in a battle gets crit hits from time to time? Im not sure what for?

3) Add a new advantage for duelers class. They have the option of not only sector targeting, but they can aim a particular player. They can target a player 1 sector away without premium, and 2 sectors with premium.
Duelers get crit hits and they see opponents builds already - clearly overpowered
4) Improve the impact of other skills in fort battles. Instead of a ^0.4 on the skills such as leadership, stamina, hiding, dodging, and aiming it could be raised to ^0.5 or ^0.6 depending on how the testing goes.
this has been asked for over and over again, I hope you manage to get this one through to them as i dont understand why they cant implement it.

5) Remove the Soldier leadership bonus. Soldier's already have increased health.
nerfing soldiers is the last thing you want to do, soldiers are at least 1 bonus down from other characters.period.

so basically your saying change the dueler bonus from crit hits to targeting?
i dont understand what for?

 

[DeletedUser23629]

2) Exclude greenhorns because there's no reason you should be allowed to have bonus's without choosing a class.

3) You will be amazed by how many crits a single player will land with a 5%-10% chance at landing. These will be very spread out and an equal chance for anyone to land 2-3 a battle.

4) We've all agreed to this time and time again, why not throw it in and hope with fingers crossed?

5) Nerf soldiers because there's no reason they should have two advantages. It's pointless and it will stop complainers such as joxer.

The last point is simple, to spread damage and to frown upon huge health points as the only important thing to focus on in battles.

 

[DeletedUser]

I always considered duelers should get a boost to appearance, just as soldiers get a boost to tactics (just an additional consideration).

 

[DeletedUser]

I'm ok with all the suggestions except nerfing soldiers because it's unnecessary. How many soldiers have pure leadership and fort fight, sitting in the middle of a tower to give their friends a +3 bonus? They can keep that useless bonus.....what needs to be nerfed is their hp bonus......

 

[DeletedUser]

Duelers get crit hits and they see opponents builds already

Duelers see total bonuses from opponents' gear, a fairly useless bonus.

 

[DeletedUser]

I always considered duelers should get a boost to appearance, just as soldiers get a boost to tactics (just an additional consideration).

sure, why not....though it has nothing to do with fort battle bonuses....

 

[DeletedUser30224]

You said that all players will get crits ? what for, I mean if we take Soldiers hp bonus (not a chance of happening I assure you), there is no need to give crit bonus to nobody .... battles would not last 55 rounds no matter how much hp all or some of ff-ters might have.

The way I see it, if we make the fort bonuses higher ^6 or so, players would slowly "sink" their hp down a bit, to land hits and to dodge more...in which case I would not add single-target for duelers, nor would I change anything...maybe extend the worker's bonus for all towers and walls.

What am I hoping this will fix: lower the total HP of ALL players in fort battles + extend worker's bonus to all structures...workers built the fort, they should be rewarded for that. Advents would have ghost bonus (totaly unrewarding and useless for personal gain, but mighty important for sector blocking), soldiers will keep their lead and hp bonuses, but they would have a lower HP if they want to hit something while they are fighting, and no more 40+ dodges for a tank at point in a tower (welcome to adventurer's world fellas), duelers would keep their crits and I already mentioned Workers.

In my hones opinion, it would balance a bit more the fort fighting community. Fort fights would not change in dificulty or tactics needed, but players would have to put more importance to other skills other than HP.

I might be wrong, but I might not, it can be easily tested in beta, just change the formulas, let players know and adjust as needed or throw it in the "unsuccessful" trash.

 

[DeletedUser9470]

2) Exclude greenhorns because there's no reason you should be allowed to have bonus's without choosing a class.

3) You will be amazed by how many crits a single player will land with a 5%-10% chance at landing. These will be very spread out and an equal chance for anyone to land 2-3 a battle.

4) We've all agreed to this time and time again, why not throw it in and hope with fingers crossed?

5) Nerf soldiers because there's no reason they should have two advantages. It's pointless and it will stop complainers such as joxer.

The last point is simple, to spread damage and to frown upon huge health points as the only important thing to focus on in battles.

1 greenhorns are already crap, maybe making greenhorn worthwhile by adding bonuses and thus more to the game would be more fun?
2 what's the point in having everyone crit? might as well NOT have everyone crit. battles are short enough as they are. dont make them shorter!
3 soldiers have 2 bonuses to chose from. if you have to pick one from 2, you still only have 1. taking 1 away makes the game even more boring. plus its not as if soldiers are mightily overpowered, christ theyre the ones with the least bonuses!
maybe its because the players who play soldier class are better than you that you think they are overpowered?
well im playing greenhorn on w1 just to prove how much of an assumption that is.
joxer cries all the time!? as if anyone cared about that!
4 giving crits to everyone will not affect by any means peoples tank builds.
if you believe it will then you have misunderstood how fort battles work.

You said that all players will get crits ? what for, I mean if we take Soldiers hp bonus (not a chance of happening I assure you), there is no need to give crit bonus to nobody .... battles would not last 55 rounds no matter how much hp all or some of ff-ters might have.

The way I see it, if we make the fort bonuses higher ^6 or so, players would slowly "sink" their hp down a bit, to land hits and to dodge more...in which case I would not add single-target for duelers, nor would I change anything...maybe extend the worker's bonus for all towers and walls.

What am I hoping this will fix: lower the total HP of ALL players in fort battles + extend worker's bonus to all structures...workers built the fort, they should be rewarded for that. Advents would have ghost bonus (totaly unrewarding and useless for personal gain, but mighty important for sector blocking), soldiers will keep their lead and hp bonuses, but they would have a lower HP if they want to hit something while they are fighting, and no more 40+ dodges for a tank at point in a tower (welcome to adventurer's world fellas), duelers would keep their crits and I already mentioned Workers.

In my hones opinion, it would balance a bit more the fort fighting community. Fort fights would not change in dificulty or tactics needed, but players would have to put more importance to other skills other than HP.

I might be wrong, but I might not, it can be easily tested in beta, just change the formulas, let players know and adjust as needed or throw it in the "unsuccessful" trash.

Problem with what you say zdeno is that the fb formula for skills counts for hardly anything.
the server gets its basic information from the amount of total hp one side has. whichever side has more HP will be the side that lands more hits/round.

so the result doesnt have much to do with bonuses in the first place.

 

[DeletedUser20647]

I think trying to get them to change 5 things is a bit too much. The only thing you want here is less HP, which will would also reduce the damage that duelers inflict. That leaves you with just 1 thing: improving other skills, number 4.

Rather than going with 5 options, I think you should go with just that.

Something else you might want to consider is diminishing returns for HP. Kayak suggested this some time ago, but for some reason nothing came out of it.

 

[DeletedUser]

I've been pretty vocal in this thread, but Elmyr or Hell or someone pointed out quite a few posts back that in the Roadmap2011 there is already in place a plan to alter the Character Bonus system, possibly so it's a manual choice of 1 of whatever you want after X amount of levels, so I'm thinking we wait for that, and then come back to this thread with a clear idea of what still needs changing, if anything, after that update - Fingers crossed it comes soon.

Alternatively maybe create a new thread to go in conjunction with the RoadMap2011 plan where people suggest "Ideas for Bonuses" and one of the ideas could be the "Fort Battle Player Aim" function?

It's good this one got lots of interest though, it shows Inno that we want the Classes sorted out better