Fort Battle Builds Guide 2.0!

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JoxerTM

I'm not getting any of this. What do you mean 3*10K=145? No math can support that. And what do you really want to say with "* would give 160"?
 

Slygoxx

The West Team
Marshal
The formula is not flawed. The formula uses and has always used the power of 0.4.

Further, the +25 base is added at the very end, the 25 is added to the bonus, not to the skills, which makes your entire math incorrect.
 

Jakkals

Banned
this was the formula I dont see anything about adding to the bonus. Show me your math then


The formulas are-
Chance to hit=25+aim^0.4+leadership^0.4+stamina^0.4
Chance to dodge=10+dodging^0.4+leadership^0.4+hiding^0.4
 

Slygoxx

The West Team
Marshal
Don't have time for a full calc, but I'll show you with 0's.

Let's say you have 0 aim, leadership and stam.

Chance to hit=25+0^0.4+0^0.4+0^0.4 = 25+0+0+0 = 25.
 

Jakkals

Banned
ok nevermind. The scale confused me. I was doing the calculations to get a value to the scale. How do the bonus scale work then? Let take a 100 skill so

100 ^ 0.4 + 100 ^ 0.4 + 100 ^ 0.4 = 6.3 + 6.3 + 6.3 + 25 = 44% right so on the scale therefore 300 skill points = +9
so chance to hit = 44% + 9 = 53%. Presume not per skill which would give 44 + 7 + 7 + 7 = 65% Get it somehow now. An example would have been great in the start and improve understanding a lot.
 
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Slygoxx

The West Team
Marshal
I don't understand what exactly you are doing in your calculations, but something seems wrong. In any case, the result is no chance or percentage, just a regular number.
 

Duduie

If you are using the old bonus system and add it to the new bonus system, then you are really confused and wrong. The "scale" or whatever you call it is not used anymore. The old system giving a +x bonus when you reached a certain number of skill points in battle skills is not valid anymore. It was replaced by this formula demonstrated above.
 

Jakkals

Banned
ok read sauceys post again. he refers first to the formula and then relates it to a scale. 1 calculation would have helped a lot but ok don't seem that pig will fly. I am however now certain of the calc and will test it tonight and then keep it to myself since there was perhaps 1 truly helpful posts by elmyr.
 

Elmyr

Now previously we thought stamina was only for attacking, and hiding was only for defending... but guess what? We were wrong there too. Stamina is for shooting, and Hiding is for dodging. You also get a base of 25 towards chance to hit (or 20, i just tested it and got 20 not 25) and a base of 10 to chance to dodge.

Therefore, the skills are -
Leadership+Aim+Stamina+25=Chance to Hit
Leadership=Dodge=Hiding+10=Chance to Dodge

The formulas are-
Chance to hit=25+aim^0.4+leadership^0.4+stamina^0.4
Chance to dodge=10+dodging^0.4+leadership^0.4+hiding^0.4
I just tested that and this is wrong. In fact it's exactly like we always thought it was. I don't know if it was changed at some point or if his math was off, or what, but it IS:

Attacking
shoot = 25 + stamina^0.4 + aim^0.4 + leadership ^0.4
dodge = 10 + stamina^0.4 + dodging^0.4 + leadership ^0.4

Defending
shoot = 25 + hiding^0.4 + aim^0.4 + leadership ^0.4
dodge = 10 + hiding^0.4 + dodging^0.4 + leadership ^0.4
 

John Colt

I think this thread should be either edited or deleted. Right now it only causes confusion about what equipment to use when attacking or defending a fort.

Generally people will only read the first post, or rather the beginning of the first post, and what they normally bring back to the town forums is this:
Now previously we thought stamina was only for attacking, and hiding was only for defending... but guess what? We were wrong there too. Stamina is for shooting, and Hiding is for dodging. You also get a base of 25 towards chance to hit (or 20, i just tested it and got 20 not 25) and a base of 10 to chance to dodge.
Although the thread-starter used alot of time creating it, and that it can be used as a basis for creating your own build(as long as you take the right formulas into consideration), it doesn't really change the fact that most of the information here is based on the wrong formulas.

As it is now, the whole thread will only confuse people, rather than actually help them.
 

JoxerTM

Actually if you read this whole thread you'll learn:
1. HP is the most important skill in a fort fight.
2. Having 0 in hiding while defending is not a bad thing because you have bonuses from towers/walls.
3. Putting points in other fortfight relevant skills above 88 (except leadership) instead of putting them in HP is generally a bad idea.
4. The best build on level 120 is pure HP build.
5. The best equipment combination for a nonsoldier is the one that gives the highest total of skill points (so you'll use black leather jacket with +11 leadership and +11 hiding for example as it's the best clothing for defense with +22 fortfight skillpoints).
6. The best equipment combination for a soldier is the one that gives the highest total of points in HP as soldier's bonus adds +50% on that skill or doubles with premium (for example brown coat for a soldier is not a bad idea as with premium it gives +240 health and practically that's 24 fortfight skillpoints).

Although the thread is about different builds, some more things must be said:
- A soldier class is an ultimate fortfighter (in fact it's an overpowered class in every aspect of the game) as it has not only the health bonus but also shares a percent of leadership with nearby players and gets +6 leadership weapon as a class reward, then comes a dueler class with it's chances to do crits, then worker class which is hard to kill on towers and walls because of it's sector bonus. The worst class in forts is an adventurer that practically has no bonus unless with activated premium and thousands of health.
- The most important fort fighting skill is not a skill from your build. It's movement during the fort fight. If you know how to move, how to swap, where to bail and how to keep having LOS while reaching the other side of the map, you're a great fort fighter.
- A bit of diplomacy is also worth of your attention because you can squeeze out a captain rank which grants you priority in movement.
- Get the best weapon available for your level as more damage you make, better chances for your side to win.
- The best anti flagrush strategy is to have duelers with proper guns as generals as it's possible they'll crit the high HP premium adventurer that's getting close to the flag. Proper guns are all of those that are not with damage 1-x.
- Overall, players that hold 1-x guns are the worst thing that can happen to your side, especially when in hands of generals and captains. If you shoot a premium adventurer with 1-x guns, it's highly possible he survives all 55 rounds because of your damage 5-10 and then his invisibility turns on which makes him barely scratched each round.
 
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John Colt

I did actually read the whole thread, and by doing so I also read that the inital statement that hiding applies both to defenses and attacks were wrong.

But like I said, people usually just read the first part of any thread. And very rarely the 11 pages of comments. And thus make the conclusion that hiding applies both in attacks and defenses, which isn't correct.

There is no doubt alot of useful information in the thread, but this guide won't be very helpful as long as the first paragraph contains a false assumption.
 
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JoxerTM

Reading just the first post of any thread is plain amateurish and generally useless.
Unless it's a thread that's closed where the first post was edited after the last post was posted.

Since this thread is still alive and editable, assuming everything you need to know is written in the first post is not a serious attitude.

When will the updating in this thread be final? Probably never as each new update brings some new things related to fort fights. We're expecting item bonuses change in the next update, but we don't know how it'll look like and what impact will it have on fort fights and builds used for fort fights. But instead of editing this thread another fresh guide perhaps emerges, you never know.

Oh and one thing more - there is a certain phrase noone explained to me what does it mean. Oddly, not even this thread. The question is "what is a so called pure fort fighter". Lemme help those who'll try to answer me... Those who claim they're pure fort fighters are not in top10 damagedealing fort fighters on www.westforts.com site. Well, if they're so called pure fort fighters... One would expect them to be in that top 10, wouldn't you agree? And I can give you at least 3 names that are in top10 on that site but will say they're not pure fort fighters. Not only that, but all 3 will ask you what purity are you talking about.
 
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John Colt

Reading just the first post of any thread is plain amateurish and generally useless.
Unless it's a thread that's closed where the first post was edited after the last post was posted.

Since this thread is still alive and editable, assuming everything you need to know is written in the first post is not a serious attitude.
Still doesn't change the fact that across my 6 worlds, there is usually 1 post a week, that refers to this thread and claims that the battleskill-formula has been changed.

Or when someone asks what skills they should increase to make them a better fortfighter, there is always someone that says hiding increases dodging, while stamina increase aim. And everytime it will be this thread they are reffering to, which makes sense since this is the only places where that is stated.

So regardless of what one might consider amateurish, I still think this thread is misguiding.

Oh and one thing more - there is a certain phrase noone explained to me what does it mean. Oddly, not even this thread. The question is "what is a so called pure fort fighter".
I guess that's just a question on how you interpret it, just like who is the best dueller etc. Most will probably say that if you have moved all your skills towards the 6 attributes that are used in a fort fight, you are a pure fortfighter. But I reckon to be completly "pure" you would need to stop doing jobs inbetween battles aswell, which is fairly unrealistic on most worlds.
 

JoxerTM

I guess that's just a question on how you interpret it, just like who is the best dueller etc. Most will probably say that if you have moved all your skills towards the 6 attributes that are used in a fort fight, you are a pure fortfighter. But I reckon to be completly "pure" you would need to stop doing jobs inbetween battles aswell, which is fairly unrealistic on most worlds.
So if one is pure leadership, that makes him pure fortfighter automatically?
Awsome. :D
 

John Colt

So if one is pure leadership, that makes him pure fortfighter automatically?
Awsome. :D
lol, you've been waiting a long time to say that haven't you ;)

Lots of people claim to be pure duellers, so I guess you could say the same to someone who put all their skills into aiming. Would that make him a pure dueller?

The question is, what do you actually want to discuss. Is it what someone would define as pure, or is it whether a pure fortfighting build is equal to being a good fortfighter?
 

JoxerTM

Pure dueler would probably be someone who took the class dueler, right?

And no, I actually didn't think you'll say what you've said so I could pop in with the pure leadership... I honestly thought you'll say pure fort fighter = pure HP. But as with pure leadership, it's again illogical thing to say as a skill or class is not the same thing as your playstyle. ;)
If we're talking about a good fortfighter, it's again something unrelatzed to your build as with any build you can give a good performance by sniping, by sticking to high leadership soldier or by moving behind nonadventurer tanks.
 

John Colt

Pure dueler would probably be someone who took the class dueler, right?
No, I think that would be categorized as a purely frustrated dueller :p

Not sure why you brought that up, since you probably know just as well as me that it's far easier to compete in duelling when you are a soldier.
And no, I actually didn't think you'll say what you've said so I could pop in with the pure leadership... I honestly thought you'll say pure fort fighter = pure HP. But as with pure leadership, it's again illogical thing to say as a skill or class is not the same thing as your playstyle.
If we're talking about a good fortfighter, it's again something unrelatzed to your build as with any build you can give a good performance by sniping, by sticking to high leadership soldier or by moving behind nonadventurer tanks.
It was more of a referral to all those other post where you have mentioned that there is no such thing as a pure fortfighter ;) So I figured you had built yourself a good stack of arguments as to why there is no such thing as a pure fortfighter, and was waiting to use them.

Tbh, I find it hard to keep up this discussion as I tend to agree with the fact that there is no definitive answer to what a pure fortfighter is. I believe that when someone says that they are a pure fortfighter, it's only another way of saying that they have put all their skills into the 6 attributes.