Do you think a 50% cap on damage reduction is acceptable for dueling?

[DeletedUser]

One last thing! The part about dueling that actually should be changed is the dang dueling levels in my opinion.

I wouldn't mind it if they would add a maximum dueling range, otherwise the higher the level, the greater the range of people you can duel. [On the other hand, that might be necessary, since really high level duelers still only have limited number of potential targets.]

 

[DeletedUser14280]

Change the dueling set up so toughness ONLY counters vigor and reflex ONLY counters shooting.

But that would create duelers that can only fight melee duelers, duelers that can only fight ranged duelers, you get the idea.
And the resistance duelers would still be really tough, because they'd put all their points into reflex AND toughness.
They just need pure strength and to put 2/3 of their points in reflex.

 

[DeletedUser]

But that would create duelers that can only fight melee duelers, duelers that can only fight ranged duelers, you get the idea.
And the resistance duelers would still be really tough, because they'd put all their points into reflex AND toughness.
They just need pure strength and to put 2/3 of their points in reflex.

I could be wrong, but I don't think the resistance duelers would STILL be really tough. Here is why.

Under the current system a most players will hit the resistant dueler very often say 5-8 times, but will only do say 10 points per hit / 15 headshot.

Now lets say the "average" dueler is using a 60-66 damage weapon. Under my proposal the resistance dueler would completely eliminate the bonus damage from shooting or vigor, HOWEVER since it would NO LONGER affect ACTUAL WEAPON DAMAGE, the dueler would get hits of 60-66 [90-99 headshot].

Obviously getting multiple hits of that size would overcome the resistance duelers couple of larger hits. As a result, the "average" dueler can win, unless the resistant dueler puts skill points into dodge and more into aim [which makes them not so resistant].

 

[DeletedUser14280]

Ow. My head hurts.

Wait, I get it.
You're saying that Vigor and Shooting should give bonus damage that Toughness and Reflex should be able to overcome, right?
And the base damage could only be avoided by having good dodging?

 

[DeletedUser]

Klondike's idea is even worse than the 50% cap. With the 50% cap, a resistance player will get hit 8 times by half the weapon damage (so a 60-66) will result in 30-33 hit x 8 or if headshot 45-49 x 8. But with klondike's idea, it is going to be 60-66 or 90-99 x 8.

With klondike's idea, it is not a good idea to invest in toughness or reflex.

Let's say we have two players, one invest in toughness/reflex and one don't invest in those (Since we don't have detail of the actual calculation, I'll just guess the numbers as best as I can)

Both have 150 skill pts and using same weapon of 50-50 damage.

Player A invests in 50 pts in shooting, 50 pts in aim, and 50 pts in dodge.
Player B invests in 30 pts in toughness, 30 pts in reflex, 30 shooting, 30 aim, and 30 dodge.

When they fight each other, the following happens:

1. Player A get hit 3 times. Player B get hit 5 times. 50 aim vs 30 dodge and 30 aim vs 50 dodge.
2. Player A do 50 damage per hit. Player B do 70 damage per hit. 50 shooting vs 30 reflex and 30 shooting vs 0 reflex.

Result:
A damage B for 250 damage.
B damage A for 210 damage.

 

[DeletedUser14280]

You know what? My head hurts again.
I think we should just veto this change, and forget about all these ideas.
If something's broken in dueling, we'll come up with a little tweak to fix things, not some big obvious modification.

 

[DeletedUser17123]

I am 100% disagree with that change, and as a protest I will stop buying Gold nuggets. This would be a good way to protest until the update is coming. And if the cange is applying, i will delete all my characters and look for another game of this type. There are plenty more ...

 

[DeletedUser]

The change it's needed, but 50% cap is excessive.

I think it's better to use a lower procent, or find another solution, because there are many players who invest a lot in this startegy and the change it would hit them "hard".

 

[DeletedUser]

Klondike's idea is even worse than the 50% cap. With the 50% cap, a resistance player will get hit 8 times by half the weapon damage (so a 60-66) will result in 30-33 hit x 8 or if headshot 45-49 x 8. But with klondike's idea, it is going to be 60-66 or 90-99 x 8.

With klondike's idea, it is not a good idea to invest in toughness or reflex.

Let's say we have two players, one invest in toughness/reflex and one don't invest in those (Since we don't have detail of the actual calculation, I'll just guess the numbers as best as I can)

Both have 150 skill pts and using same weapon of 50-50 damage.

Player A invests in 50 pts in shooting, 50 pts in aim, and 50 pts in dodge.
Player B invests in 30 pts in toughness, 30 pts in reflex, 30 shooting, 30 aim, and 30 dodge.

When they fight each other, the following happens:

1. Player A get hit 3 times. Player B get hit 5 times. 50 aim vs 30 dodge and 30 aim vs 50 dodge.
2. Player A do 50 damage per hit. Player B do 70 damage per hit. 50 shooting vs 30 reflex and 30 shooting vs 0 reflex.

Result:
A damage B for 250 damage.
B damage A for 210 damage.

Klondike's idea is even worse than the 50% cap. With the 50% cap, a resistance player will get hit 8 times by half the weapon damage (so a 60-66) will result in 30-33 hit x 8 or if headshot 45-49 x 8. But with klondike's idea, it is going to be 60-66 or 90-99 x 8.

With klondike's idea, it is not a good idea to invest in toughness or reflex.

I believe you are mistaken by the 50% cap currently planned. It would be a 50% cap of weapon AND vigor or shooting.

Currently if a dueler's vigor or shooting is greater than their weapons damage, there would potentially be MORE damage done with a 50% reduction than with my method. Also, since my method would have limits on how much damage could be avoided, duelers would put more skill points into dodge, so they would NOT get hit 8 times.

I guess the calculation could be adjusted somewhat. Whatever percentage of reflex/toughness LEFT OVER after eliminating vigor/shooting could be used toward reducing weapon damage up to a maximum of 50% of weapon damage.

 

[DeletedUser]

oh whatever! 50% cap sucks, end of story.

Why cant the devs just reconfigure the dueling formula a little to better correlate vigor/shooting to resistance? I mean a player with 100 vigor/shooting against a player with 200 resistance should hit 0's. come on, look at the difference, that's a 100 point difference that the resistance dueler has invested in resistance. If the player had 200 vigor/shooting against 200 resistance, then you'll probably win. And don't give me crap about having to specialize in high vigor/shooting to beat resistance. First of all, remember duel gear, so that 200 vigor/shooting includes bonuses, so your base vigor/shooting isn't 200. Second of all, 180 vigor/shooting with bonus could overcome that. Third of all, a proper dueler with high dodge/tactics for defending would beat resistance. I could go on and on, but I don't want to.

 

[DeletedUser]

First of all, remember duel gear, so that 200 vigor/shooting includes bonuses, so your base vigor/shooting isn't 200.

So what? You think you don't get bonuses from gear for resistances?

Second of all, 180 vigor/shooting with bonus could overcome that.

I don't see how this is a "second" point.

Third of all, a proper dueler with high dodge/tactics for defending would beat resistance.

Wrong.

Fights end up with the resistance dueler hitting once for good damage, the dodge/tactics dueler hitting 8 times for crap damage, and the resistance dueler winning.

 

[DeletedUser]

I just had a "new" thought on this subject.

Change the dueling set up so toughness ONLY counters vigor and reflex ONLY counters shooting.

Basically make it so weapon specific damage can only be dodged, while weapon "bonus" damage CAN be reduced/eliminated or something similar to that effect.

Um I think it does that already

 

[DeletedUser]

Wrong.

Fights end up with the resistance dueler hitting once for good damage, the dodge/tactics dueler hitting 8 times for crap damage, and the resistance dueler winning.

I don't know what kind of players you duel, but for real duelers who actually know how to duel, resistance can be defeated easily.

 

[DeletedUser]

Um I think it does that already

Nope. The devs (on the German servers) confirmed that 1/2 of one type of resistance goes to helping the other type of resistance.

100 Reflex = 100 Reflex and 50 Toughness

I don't know what kind of players you duel, but for real duelers who actually know how to duel, resistance can be defeated easily.

Obviously...why else would it be such a popular build...

Yes, actually, it can be defeated easily. But only if you have a ridiculously high Shooting or Vigor.

 

[DeletedUser]

no, you don't need ridiculously high shooting/vigor. For example(lvl 75's, assume all other skills are what they should be), A range dueler with 180 shooting against a resistance dueler with 200 resistance would be able to inflict high enough damage to win. 180 shooting at lvl 75 isn't high at all. It's what every range dueler at lvl 75 should have for their shooting. If you think 180 shooting is high, then that's where your mistaken.

 

[DeletedUser]

Er...at level 75, 180 shooting is 80% of the skill points one has to distribute (not counting attribute points, gear or points gained through quests).

I would call that very high. Especially considering that the 3 main dueling skills are supposed to be Dodge, Aim and Hit Points.

But, even here to hedge your bet because you say that they "can win". We're not talking about a huge percentage of the time, are we?

Even so, you are now ducking and dodging away from the point. What I said was that Dodge and Tactics / Appearance aren't going to give you a win. You have to have a high Shooting / Vigor. Since you are throwing around numbers like 180 at level 75, I'm gald you agree with me.

 

[DeletedUser]

180 with gear...not base, I should have said assume duel gear included.

I beg to differ that dodge and tactics / appearance won't give you the win. I've lost to those builds, and never stood a chance.

 

[DeletedUser]

oh whatever! 50% cap sucks, end of story.

Why cant the devs just reconfigure the dueling formula a little to better correlate vigor/shooting to resistance?

I couldn't agree more.

Only thing I would add is also bring some more emphasis to aim/dodge in duels.

 

[DeletedUser]

This change also will put all melee duelers not just melee/resistance at a big disadvantage a far as gear goes. Most of the best dueling gear boosts shooting not vigor. Except for the resistance gear which most melee duelers use, which will be basically useless if they make this change. After the change ranged duelers will have a huge advantage. What will the dev's do to "even" that out?

I know as a melee/resistance dueler on w-8 I don't want to spend $2000-$5000 on a coat or boots to boost my tactics/app or aim/dodging, that also boosts my shooting by 12 or 15 but does nothing for vigor.

Especially since I will now have to spend alot of money to respec skill points. I don't want to have to buy all new dueling gear to.

It also just so happens my premium expired about the time this update came up. Therefore I will not be buying anymore nuggets, until this update is decided. If it happens then I definately won't purchase more premium and probably won't continue to play at all.

 

[DeletedUser]

I beg to differ that dodge and tactics / appearance won't give you the win. I've lost to those builds, and never stood a chance.

Considering that you think 180 shooting is not high...I simply don't believe you.