Death of Bin Laden

[DeletedUser30591]

i am glad osama is dead but would like to see some pictures or video or something as proof its true ,i guess in time we will hopefully and i dont get the whole burial at sea thing either . i know its muslim tradition to be buried within 24 hours of death but come on , its flippin osama bin laden , they should of dragged him through the streets in nyc to ground zero . infiniti , was right about the team but i dident read anything about the shot . .http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20110502/NEWS02/705029853

 

[DeletedUser]

While I agree that the whole burying at sea deal sounds "fishy", I doubt that is true. For example, faking Bin Ladens death may be good for the short term (economic boost, sense of security, national pride, etc.), the long term consequences would be horrific for the Obama administration and the U.S. if it was indeed all a hoax.

Just think about it, imagine that this whole thing was a set up and Bin Laden is still alive in a cave somewhere. All he needs to do is make a new video of himself or show himself to the world somehow and turn the U.S. and the Obama administration into a laughing stock. The risk vs reward doesn't seem to add up imo.

 

[DeletedUser]

teh train robber is correct, it would be a truly foolish and shortsighted action to fake the death of someone who can and would create another video just to expose the lie and undermine the U.S. government's credibility. No, he's dead.

As to the burial at sea --- part of the thing this administration is attempting to do is not make it look like a Christian vs Muslim incident, and thus honoring Muslim traditions is the appropriate strategy.

As to killing vs capturing, it really is a toss-up, but I've come to the conclusion there will be less repercussions (in the long term) for having him dead than for having him captured. As others indicated, hostage situations and bombings could last for decades, as a means to coerce the U.S. into releasing Bin Ladin, whilst anger over his death would likely merely last a few years or even less. Plus, with him dead, his influential leadership would be lost, whilst if he were to remain alive, others could encourage Al Qaeida to remain active in anticipation of his release.

Al Qaeida was effective "because" of Bin Ladin. His death is a critical blow, possibly a killing blow, to that terrorist organization.

Last comment: It took Bush Jr's administration 10 years (including the 8 years derailed in Iraq) to fail in his "promise" of getting Bin Ladin. It took Obama's administration just 3 years (1 year since refocusing military efforts to once again go after Bin Ladin). And yes, it was Obama's refocusing of the troops that provided this closure. And no, I'm not happy with everything Obama's been doing, but he's getting significantly better results, on almost every front, than those incredibly harmful previous 8 years under a Republican administration.

 

[DeletedUser]

I hope you have some sunscreen and perhaps a bathing suit, bin Laden, because you're on your way to a very warm place.

 

[DeletedUser]

Last comment: It took Bush Jr's administration 10 years (including the 8 years derailed in Iraq) to fail in his "promise" of getting Bin Ladin. It took Obama's administration just 3 years (1 year since refocusing military efforts to once again go after Bin Ladin). And yes, it was Obama's refocusing of the troops that provided this closure. And no, I'm not happy with everything Obama's been doing, but he's getting significantly better results, on almost every front, than those incredibly harmful previous 8 years under a Republican administration.

The lack of facts in this one short paragraph is laughable. Since U.S. Presidents are limited to 2 four year terms, I doubt Bush 43's administration lasted 10 years. Next, since Obama's "refocusing" of troops, U.S. casualties are up to record levels in Afghanistan and increasing in Iraq. This past month in Iraq was the deadliest since 2009. Check your facts before barfing up democrat talking points please.

Of course, if by "getting better results" you mean getting more of our service people killed then you would be right. I certainly hope that is not what you meant though. Obama continues Bush's policies and those policies, including enhanced interrogation techniques panned out. Give credit where credit is due, Bush said we would get Bin Laden no matter how long it took and he was right. He had faith in our intelligence services and the military.

http://www.thenewstribune.com/2011/05/01/1647739/us-deaths-in-iraq-most-since-2009.html
http://www.armytimes.com/news/2011/01/ap-ied-casaulties-rise-afghanistan-012611/

 

[DeletedUser22685]

As to killing vs capturing, it really is a toss-up, but I've come to the conclusion there will be less repercussions (in the long term) for having him dead than for having him captured. As others indicated, hostage situations and bombings could last for decades, as a means to coerce the U.S. into releasing Bin Ladin, whilst anger over his death would likely merely last a few years or even less. Plus, with him dead, his influential leadership would be lost, whilst if he were to remain alive, others could encourage Al Qaeida to remain active in anticipation of his release.

Adding to this and my original short post that stated much the same as the above, if bin Laden was captured Al Qaeda's reprisals would not stop until their leader was released. Then we would've dealt with major terrorist attacks AND bin Laden would still be at large. However, with him dead, try as they might, he is gone for good and no amount of reprisals can get him back.

 

[DeletedUser22493]

At first though, it was kinda strange that after knowing hes location for 5 months, they couldn't capture him alive.

But at second thought, I can see the diplomatic nightmare, with the whole Muslim world threatening to blow themselves up, unless he is set free. With the world eyes on him, USA couldn't really use him for anything.

Unless they already had him for quite a while, and finally decided to execute him.

The only thing that is for sure, is that no one will ever for sure know the true story.
Perhaps when Julian Assange get outa jail..

 

[DeletedUser]

As to the burial at sea --- part of the thing this administration is attempting to do is not make it look like a Christian vs Muslim incident, and thus honoring Muslim traditions is the appropriate strategy.

I would just like to point out that the "burial" was not honoring Muslim tradition

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thelo...out/was-it-burying-bin-laden-at-sea-a-mistake
But several Muslim authorities said today that the sea burial in fact violated Muslim tradition--and warned that it could help trigger calls for revenge from militant Muslims.
The sea burial "runs contrary to the principles of Islamic laws, religious values and humanitarian customs," Sheik Ahmed al-Tayeb, the grand Imam of Cairo's al-Azhar mosque, told the AP.
And Mohammed al-Qubaisi, Dubai's grand mufti, echoed that view. "If the family does not want him, it's really simple in Islam: You dig up a grave anywhere, even on a remote island, you say the prayers and that's it."
He added: "Sea burials are permissible for Muslims in extraordinary circumstances," he added. "This is not one of them."
And Abdul-Sattar al-Janabi, who preaches at Baghdad's Abu Hanifa mosque declared: "It is not acceptable, and it is almost a crime to throw the body of a Muslim man into the sea," adding that the action "might provoke some Muslims."

now if we did give him an "appropriate" burial his grave site would have turned into a "holy" spot by Radical Muslims. (I did not say all Muslims just the radical jihad-est ones)

 

[DeletedUser]

He added: "Sea burials are permissible for Muslims in extraordinary circumstances," he added. "This is not one of them."

I can't see how this could any more extraordinary than what went down. Im sure they had that part of the operation covered long before it happened, Im sure they did not wish for "loose ends" like what to do with him if was dead. Taking the body back to States would have most probably caused some serious terrorist attacks.

 

[DeletedUser16008]

Oh I have no doubt at all that Bin Laden is dead. On the contrary this is about the 8th time or so that we have had claims the US have managed to bag him in some form or other since early 2002..

We have had suspect video tapes obviously not Osama rolled out by the whitehouse , we have had suspect audio tapes again very suspect and some so ridiculous they are obvious its not the same man they claim is Osama, CIA bluff and claims, servicemen, reporters, even members of various governments claim hes been killed before including an international leader and ending up the same way themselves.

Remember that it was a time when Benazir Bhuto got killed a while after saying that Osama Bin Laden was dead. After she told this to a BBC reporter, she was assassinated soon afterwards.This happened in 2007. So, is Osama pushing up daises since four years ago? Or for maybe even more time? Or he actually never died?

There has been claims hes been on "ice" for some time and to be wheeled out at some useful point in the future, I distinctly remember reading that during the Bush administration they may use him for flagging popularity in election time etc , I found it amusing at the time as the source was about 3rd hand and wrote it off as bunk, but hey guess what has just happened ???

Yup at exactly the time this Presidents popularity is at an all time low in his administration leading up to election time, the dollar still tanking and talk of yet another Quantitative Easing round, the support for Iraq/ Afghanistan / Lybia is dropping, the drone attacks in Pakistan and most personally the fake Birth certificate which would make Obama A LIAR to the world, this obvious bit of propaganda comes out. I tell you that sent a chill down my spine.

The most wanted man in history, No body, No conclusive evidence. ARE YOU KIDDING ME ?

And why did they need to speed up the process when burying the body? By throwing it in the sea? I mean, I know it is an islamic tradition the 24 hour thing but at sea ? We are speaking of the most wanted man ever! They search ten years for him, and then when they brutally kill him, they all of the sudden get keen on respecting Islam ? thats all bunk for starters. No Muslim i have ever heard of has burial at sea & it is actually an insult.Let’s bury him in the sea and call it respecting Islam …yeah, yeah, right there, just drop him off. We do not even have to make a DNA analysis as theyve got it sorted, yea that would be hard to do if they got him years ago right ?

How many hoaxes are done right in the face of people? Are there still people believing that Lee Harvey Oswald was the one that assassinated former president Kennedy?
Also, if Osama died now, where are the pictures as a proof of that? The one that you can find on the net are recently claimed as fake…another hoax, another manipulation.

Also, Al Qaeda has confirmed the death of their leader pretty fast & thats totally out of character too, which just makes me a bigger pessimist in this whole story- is this the nature of terrorists, to practically accept they are defeated, or is this just an intro to a new leader or some other conspiracy theory? They were on the US payroll before why not again ? Just what is happening here?

Oh and before someone asks what motivation or reason the US would have for keeping his body on Ice and not revealing it before the answer is simple, economics, trade and political agenda.

Gulf of Tonkin
Bay of Pigs
Iraq war ( WMD )

3 examples of the US government either actually falsifying a reason to go to war or intending to.

Watergate
Clinton/Lewinsky affair
Iran/Contra incident

3 examples of a president LYING to the world. Bottom line is Obama has his credibility in question re his Birth Certificate which will make no 4 and if so hes history...seriously what credibility if his own Birth Cert is found to be a lie ?

You should not be concerned about the Bin Laden killing but rather WHY NOW and for what reason and is it really likely this is factual or just a load of bunk made up for political convenience at exactly the time its required ?

Come on wake up and smell the coffee theres been lies and BS before and if theres anything that smells this one stinks something awful.
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[DeletedUser]

When I heard they'd already dumped the body at sea, I thought "Uh oh, the conspiracy wackoes will have a field day on this".
But actually, who really cares about them? They make up hardly even 1% of the population, even if they do advertise themselves disproportionately. As a constituency they are negligible in a democratic system. They will ask for evidence only so they can condemn it as fake when it's presented. They are pointless time-wasters and fantasists.
Obama has had a slice of luck in that the success came on his watch and that the helicopter pilots and SEALs did not screw up. So what? He's a nice guy and I don't begrudge him. For those who wanted to portray him as a weak president who was not even eligible by birth for the office he holds this has been a bad week.

 

[DeletedUser]

Why on earth would we care about honoring "muslim tradition" when this man didn't care about his victims dying with dignity?

Yeah, why should we even care about moral standards at all....

Al Qaeida was effective "because" of Bin Ladin. His death is a critical blow, possibly a killing blow, to that terrorist organization.

I disagree with you (which doesn't really happen often ). Al Qaeda consists pretty much of independent cells and is not a hierachical organization. While 10+ years ago Bin Laden was in fact a major active figure he was mostly a "face" nowadays. Al Qaedas attacks will continue whether Bin Laden was alive, dead or captured.

I can see the diplomatic nightmare, with the whole Muslim world threatening to blow themselves up

Do you need some more soap for your brainwash?

But actually, who really cares about them? They make up hardly even 1% of the population, even if they do advertise themselves disproportionately. As a constituency they are negligible in a democratic system. They will ask for evidence only so they can condemn it as fake when it's presented. They are pointless time-wasters and fantasists.

This actually reminded me of creationists

 

[DeletedUser14006]

Great news on the death of Bin Laden, taking terrorism to a new level and targetting innocent civilians to make a point as suppose to military targets was just plain cowardly!

Also great news for the box office, wonder when the film comes out

 

[DeletedUser16008]

When I heard they'd already dumped the body at sea, I thought "Uh oh, the conspiracy wackoes will have a field day on this".
But actually, who really cares about them? They make up hardly even 1% of the population, even if they do advertise themselves disproportionately. As a constituency they are negligible in a democratic system. They will ask for evidence only so they can condemn it as fake when it's presented. They are pointless time-wasters and fantasists.
Obama has had a slice of luck in that the success came on his watch and that the helicopter pilots and SEALs did not screw up. So what? He's a nice guy and I don't begrudge him. For those who wanted to portray him as a weak president who was not even eligible by birth for the office he holds this has been a bad week.

Im surprised at you Eli, you have to be joking the biggest criminal in US history and you dont want proof ? carry on believing in fox news and whatever the popular press tell you to then ... of course Id expect most people to ignore past examples of lies saying " ahh they wouldnt lie to us now they are nice people and Obama ? well hes different" oh please hes as bent or as capable being so just as others have proved in the past... as long as the masses ... the 99% blindly believe what they read or hear as the truth without questioning there will be no chance for the world.. being told something does not make it true wake up & if your ignorant enough to just switch on the news and believe its true because everyone is saying it is then your exactly the kind of result in the masses of sheep they wish.

someone once said,

"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”

He also said:
“The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly - it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over”

That man was Joseph Goebbels:

Don't sell him short. he was an extremely intelligent man, a brilliant manipulator, and was Hitler's Master of Propaganda Adolph Hitler wrote in Mein Kamph that the Nazis learned the value of propaganda from the British during World War I and also learned their propaganda from the progressive movement in the United States. There are no sources, except the man who was the main guy for propaganda for Nazi Germany. They learned it in part from the progressives in America, a one Woodrow Wilson.

Wilson I believe created the first official propaganda department in the US. in fact A week after Congress declared war on Germany, Wilson created a government apparatus whose sole purpose was to lie to the American people, the first modern ministry for propaganda in the West. It was called the committee on public information.

Now you may say what you will but there is a heck of a history not to trust what you are being fed just because its on the news and the muppets that do are the reason the world is in the state its in to a large extent and to hear the usual rhetoric of conspiracy idiots cried every time someone questions things makes me smile. It only takes one cover up to be exposed such as watergate and everything from there on should make people pause and ask questions like "are we being lied to ?" Instead you get the usual fox news watching , flag waving, gung ho Neanderthals calling those that do at least ask questions the fantasist's

Didnt see you contesting the previous examples ive given yet of course Obama is a good ol boy so thats ok lol cant see the wood for the trees some people & its how the atrocities happened in Germany and many other countries by just sucking up the propaganda whatever they feed you and questioning NOTHING

Personally id rather ask questions that people dont wish to answer or hear than take what im told verbatim without question. It is that which separates us from total enslavement and Orwellian state oppression and if that means im the 1% well cool at least ill be able to look my children in the eye and say yes I asked questions and didnt follow blindly because someone just told me so. Im happy to be proved wrong but in the event im proved right at any point youll bet the sheep will fall silent without a murmur of apology.

Im also not a conspiracy nut but i do like to look at all angles rather than be hoodwinked & yup conspiracy's do exist have done and always will nor are they are always a figment of peoples imaginations. Don't get sucked in to not asking questions just because someone like Eli here tries to call you a whako when it challenges his personal belief of the way things are and would rock his world if he ever realised the truth of things.

The truth ?

You can't handle the truth!

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[DeletedUser]

Im surprised at you Eli, you have to be joking the biggest criminal in US history and you dont want proof ?

No I don't want proof - a photograph that could be faked? a reported DNA sample that I have no way of verifying? There can never be proof, only practical certainty and until bin Laden pops up on a freshly minted video that's what we have.
If everyone thinks he's dead then for every practical purpose he IS dead.
I live a real life, not a metaphysical one and I don't care if bin Laden is at the bottom of the Arabian Sea or partying in Las Vegas after plastic surgery under the witness protection programme. If he's never heard from or seen again that's good enough for me - I don't need to have his pickled ear in a jar on the mantlepiece.

 

[DeletedUser9470]

Obama has had a slice of luck in [...] that the helicopter pilots and SEALs did not screw up.

Agreed
Usually they take their allies out and blow up civilian planes!

None the less, I also think there is something fishy.
why bother respecting the religion, theyve just shot him to pieces!

Why not just take a swab and a pic to prove it to the world, and then burn the house down?
Is this a bit too demanding for a navy seal?
Most probably...

whats the SOP for taking care of a terrorist killed by another terrorist?
there isnt any!
Do what the hell they like, and talk BS to the camera.

 

[DeletedUser12669]

why the navy SEAL's its not the kind of gig they would do at most it would of been delta force with the sas baby sittling at the very least

 

[DeletedUser16008]

No I don't want proof - a photograph that could be faked? a reported DNA sample that I have no way of verifying? There can never be proof, only practical certainty and until bin Laden pops up on a freshly minted video that's what we have.
If everyone thinks he's dead then for every practical purpose he IS dead.
I live a real life, not a metaphysical one and I don't care if bin Laden is at the bottom of the Arabian Sea or partying in Las Vegas after plastic surgery under the witness protection programme. If he's never heard from or seen again that's good enough for me - I don't need to have his pickled ear in a jar on the mantlepiece.

I feel sorry for you Eli because you should care, your part of the world, to dismiss such things as metaphysical without question or investigation smacks of apathy which about says it all.

The death of democracy is not likely to be an assassination or war. It will be a slow extinction from apathy, indifference, and moral undernourishment.

"The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men."
Plato

 

[DeletedUser]

Yeah, why should we even care about moral standards at all....

Considering that Bin Laden didn't care about muslim tradition when the muslims who were in the World Trade Center were killed why should the muslims care about his dignity either? Seriously the man had just been shot in the head in a fierce firefight, he was the most wanted man in America and rather than show some kind of incontrovertible proof that he is dead they toss his body into the ocean?

I'm not saying that it's a conspiracy but damn how careless is that? And I don't see how moral standards come into play when we are talking about something as simple as taking the body into any of the neighboring countries and having independent confirmation that yes, it's him. Do you seriously contend that with our jets and other methods of transportation that this couldn't have been accomplished within 24 hours?

A couple of hours was all that they waited before dumping the body into the sea, why do so in such haste?

 

[DeletedUser]

What I think they should have done is capture Bin Laden, then chain him up in Washington D.C. and allow every American to get one punch on him. Or one move, in case you want to kick him instead.

So, yeah, screw all this burial-at-sea crap. That doesn't even make any sense.