Contagious Virus

Poker Alice

Active Member
There is a contagious virus and it is called chronic complaining.
Yes that is right it is something people do, can pass on and it can be deadly.

Everyone has likes and dislikes. If you are veteran to the west game perhaps you are someone that would like to see the game return to what it used to be? If you are completely new to the game perhaps you were expecting something else? I’ve witnessed complaining in chats. You can observe complaints occurring in all areas. Gamer's complain about the fort situation, dueling, tombola, lack of or too much of. I’ve read a belief that stated that the more complaining which occurs the better things will be because complaints evoke change.

The problem with complaining itself is it doesn’t change anything except add to the list of complaints. The complaining virus can mutate. So, if you think a solution is to give everyone what they want, forget it. You can not please everyone and even if you do give to the sick one, the mutated virus will find something else to complain about.

So how do you deal with a deadly virus?

Contain it and make an attempt to treat the victims.
We can try to help by reminding that every situation can be looked at in a different way.


Containing a virus requires avoiding it like a plaque. This is why players and organizations stop listening. Put yourself in the shoes of someone else. If you read nothing more but complaints and sarcastic comments which do very little but run down, what would you do? It is human nature to either engage in a dispute which most of the time only degrades the parties involved and causes hard feeling or you could simply ignore the complaints.

Is there a better way? We could if we wished to even apply proper treatment to the rest of our life?

If you like the west game or want to again then be aware and protect yourself from the deadly chronic complaining virus. You could be its next victim.
 

RaiderTr

Well-Known Member
Complaining of complaining.. contagious indeed!

Let's not confuse.. Complaining with.. giving Feedback.. and making constructive criticism, though!

Yes.. people do tend to complain without offering solutions.
But then.. There has been too many suggestions to fixing piled up problems for years that now people got tired of doing that. (Well, who really visits forums nowadays anyway)

Still..
I guess I merged all 3 in one place: https://forum.beta.the-west.net/index.php?threads/situation-of-the-game.3477


Meanwhile.. A question..
Do you support Pay-to-win?
 

Nisa

Well-Known Member
. So, if you think a solution is to give everyone what they want, forget it. You can not please everyone and even if you do give to the sick one, the mutated virus will find something else to complain about.



If you like the west game or want to again then be aware and protect yourself from the deadly chronic complaining virus. You could be its next victim.
Too late now. Nothing works as it should because of the numerous changes thanks to players who were vocal and wanted it all easy way. And then add few wrong decisions made by wrong people and we are here. I cant complain. I am just sad.
 

RaiderTr

Well-Known Member
From what I heard though.. There were lots of other "vocal" people too that tried to fight against insane power-creep and immediate-buy Nugget sets..
Guess Inno just favored the "faster" (instead of more but slower) money way..

Ironically though, now most of the remaining small player base is the "die-hard" old-school people, yet we can't get any change at all.
 
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Poker Alice

Active Member
Let's not confuse.. Complaining with.. giving Feedback.. and making constructive criticism, though!
Everyone at one time or another complains. I know I do. It seems to be the human condition. At this time of year for me its mostly about the weather. :)
Yes indeed I agree constructive criticism is good but don't you find everywhere the people who are in charge will listen after they say, "how can I help you" usually if the focus is on working together to find solutions. They tend to tune out or get defensive if it's not constructive such as playing the blame game. In the end the solutions come from the people in charge.

As for pay-to-win support if you mean will I stand against in protest?

I would rather remain neutral. I don't think it is my place to demand changes.

If you are asking about my game preferences though I wouldn't miss tombola's, if gold was only available by game play not real $ or if forts were so expensive they wouldn't appear in a game until a year transpired. I like the trading world over the conflict world but that's just me.

Too late now.
When did the fat lady sing? It's not over until it's over.
 

RaiderTr

Well-Known Member
There isn't much hope, but there is some, maybe..
conflict world
Before P2W/OP upgradable power-creeping sets hit the game it had much friendlier atmosphere. (Yes humans were always humans but without amplified "evil" side)

Now big spenders act like they must own everything just because they pay lots of real money.
And of course they surround themselves with the people who doesn't spend much but still loves to win for whatever cost.

That's Real life contagious capitalism virus for ya.
- - - - - - -
Well of course there are way too many "events" (click click ones, tombolas etc etc) and quests now..
Much less time for anything else.
 
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Poker Alice

Active Member
I would be being untruthful even to myself if I pretended not to be influenced by what I have read in these forums regarding this western game. I am curious just how much real money it would take to buy out the "big spenders"? The reason for the question is not to stick my little nose into someone else's business but rather to have some information so as to offer a suggestion. My second question then would be how many people now playing this game would be willing to donate to a more "friendlier atmosphere". I suppose the only way to find out is put forth my suggestion and see what kind of response comes forth? It could be that a friendly atmosphere could attract more new players?

It is one heck of challenge to find out though because so few people read this forum and so few of the users actually wish to communicate whilst playing the game.

On a trivia note, I find it ironic that I started this topic before anyone knew a pandemic would become real world news. I agree personal and company (group of people) capitalism not a political definition can be contagious in these times but in times of change even these norms can change...
 

Pankreas PorFavor

Well-Known Member
I would be being untruthful even to myself if I pretended not to be influenced by what I have read in these forums regarding this western game. I am curious just how much real money it would take to buy out the "big spenders"? The reason for the question is not to stick my little nose into someone else's business but rather to have some information so as to offer a suggestion. My second question then would be how many people now playing this game would be willing to donate to a more "friendlier atmosphere". I suppose the only way to find out is put forth my suggestion and see what kind of response comes forth? It could be that a friendly atmosphere could attract more new players?
I would reply, but I don't even understand your question?! Does it have to be so cryptic?
Buy out big spenders? What's that supposed to mean, pay someone not to play? Or "donate to a friendlier atmosphere"? Pay someone to smile or..? :blink:
 

asdf124

Well-Known Member
I would be being untruthful even to myself if I pretended not to be influenced by what I have read in these forums regarding this western game. I am curious just how much real money it would take to buy out the "big spenders"? The reason for the question is not to stick my little nose into someone else's business but rather to have some information so as to offer a suggestion. My second question then would be how many people now playing this game would be willing to donate to a more "friendlier atmosphere". I suppose the only way to find out is put forth my suggestion and see what kind of response comes forth? It could be that a friendly atmosphere could attract more new players?

It is one heck of challenge to find out though because so few people read this forum and so few of the users actually wish to communicate whilst playing the game.

On a trivia note, I find it ironic that I started this topic before anyone knew a pandemic would become real world news. I agree personal and company (group of people) capitalism not a political definition can be contagious in these times but in times of change even these norms can change...
If you are asking about a server that would have "friendly" company only, it would be almost impossible since this is the internet, you will always find someone to ruin it all. By definition, I think you are asking about a private server availability of the west. I believe that has been an idea or a scrapped reward.

Or are you just asking about a private server availability?
 

Poker Alice

Active Member
There isn't much hope, but there is some, maybe..

Before P2W/OP upgradable power-creeping sets hit the game it had much friendlier atmosphere. (Yes humans were always humans but without amplified "evil" side)

Now big spenders act like they must own everything just because they pay lots of real money.
And of course they surround themselves with the people who doesn't spend much but still loves to win for whatever cost.

That's Real life contagious capitalism virus for ya.
- - - - - - -
Well of course there are way too many "events" (click click ones, tombolas etc etc) and quests now..
Much less time for anything else.
I would reply, but...
Sorry about that, perhaps I should have included RaiderTr's comment. I've read about dissatisfaction many times before this in the forum as well as in game chats so assuming it is real.

.. have "friendly" ... would be almost impossible since this is the internet, you will always find someone to ruin it all.
I'm suggesting and looking for solutions that will satisfy all parties. By friendly, I mean an absence of "power hostilities" created by real money influence in the game. It would require a different way of getting users to pay out real cash . The question is are there enough players willing to contribute to a game without tombolas and the real money store?

I have a few ideas that might work but they will stay only ideas unless the desire and willingness to make a change is present. Thanks for the feedback.
 

Pankreas PorFavor

Well-Known Member
Poker Alice
Active Member
Joined Nov 2, 2019 - well, this probably explains it. it's been suggested too many times without an answer. give us classic The West (something you maybe never experienced? v1 of this game - no tombolas, no belts and pants, no crafting, no named items, just stuff you can buy in town stores etc.) and charge a (monthly? weekly? quarterly?) fee. players asked for this but Inno never answered to this request.
not sure how "friendly" plays a role here or what it would even mean because dueling and (later introduced) fort battles are/were the main theme of the game.
 

Poker Alice

Active Member
Poker Alice
Active Member
Joined Nov 2, 2019 - well, this probably explains it. it's been suggested too many times without an answer. give us classic The West..
Yes!
After looking over this forum, historically I can see how changes were "suggested". I've read generally hostility posts aimed towards the owners of the game. Over time perhaps from lack of good communication, there was a growing frustration or general negative attitude created? There could have been numerous things which created more and more ignorance. By reading many of the posts in this forum, it isn't difficult to understand how complaints and attacks on how the game was being managed, were not really constructive suggestions or requests at all, so there is little wonder they would be interrupted by management as such and then not read seriously or read at all.

I am willing to change my outlook and wording. Perhaps friendly is not a good word choice? I'm not sure about that. But what I am sure about certain things need to be put in place before anyone can expect to see some kind of change. Going backwards in time might not be a change we could expect to see happen. When I was referring to friendly, it wasn't meant to be relating to game dueling or in game fort battles specifically but to actually player to player and to player to management relationships.

So what needs to take place before any idea can be implemented?

1. Refresh the forum with a deletion of most of the dated posts?

2. A more upbeat forum with more players accessing it.

3. Create positive player to management communication?
 

Pankreas PorFavor

Well-Known Member
By reading many of the posts in this forum, it isn't difficult to understand how complaints and attacks on how the game was being managed, were not really constructive suggestions or requests at all, so there is little wonder they would be interrupted by management as such and then not read seriously or read at all.
wow. I don't even know where to begin. maybe you need to read more of the old posts?
I really don't know what to say. this comment is like if someone would see slaves rioting and commenting "what a wild and violent bunch of people, no wonder they keep them in chains!"


So what needs to take place before any idea can be implemented?

1. Refresh the forum with a deletion of most of the dated posts?

2. A more upbeat forum with more players accessing it.

3. Create positive player to management communication?
0. Game owning company that wants to invest time/effort/money in this game.
 

Poker Alice

Active Member
wow. I don't even know where to begin. maybe you need to read more of the old posts?
I really don't know what to say. this comment is like if someone would see slaves rioting and commenting "what a wild and violent bunch of people, no wonder they keep them in chains!" 0 Game owning company that wants to invest time/effort/money in this game.
Well you do make a valid point I've got to give you that. You have demonstrated how even new posts like this one would follow the same old trend. So why delete any older posts then. sarcastic alert = Lets see how can we persuade a company to listen to our good ideas? Well we could suggest that they are acting like slave owners! Now that will certainly get the whole thing started off on a good foot. - end of sarcasm Oh my, that almost sounds like I am complaining. Is it possible I've caught the virus? :lol:

Zero, not so good. Members might need to invest and request change for the better good of all parties, so true.
 

Pankreas PorFavor

Well-Known Member
Well you do make a valid point I've got to give you that. You have demonstrated how even new posts like this one would follow the same old trend. So why delete any older posts then. sarcastic alert = Lets see how can we persuade a company to listen to our good ideas? Well we could suggest that they are acting like slave owners! Now that will certainly get the whole thing started off on a good foot. - end of sarcasm Oh my, that almost sounds like I am complaining. Is it possible I've caught the virus? :lol:

Zero, not so good. Members might need to invest and request change for the better good of all parties, so true.
well, thank you so much for joining the game and the forum and teaching us something new.
if only you were here in 2009 or 2010! oh, I so fondly remember the good old days when I was just starting... the first thing I did was join the forum and start attacking Innogames. I never tried proposing an idea, never complimented them on the good things they've done, never did anything constructive. it was all negativity and insults! I actually first created the forum account to throw mud at them, and only started playing 3 years later. wow, if only there was someone like you around to teach us the other way...

ffs who do you think you are to come here and tell us that we are negative and that the player base is guilty for Innogames not listening? go to the Ideas and brainfarts part of the forum, open the first posts from more than 10 years ago and start reading. your "holier than thou" attitude and unrealistic general ideas help nothing, you dropped out of nowhere with no experience or knowledge what this player base went through and start preaching that we are to blame?! seriously?!?
this is your conclusion? the player base is negative and toxic and that is the cause for management not to listen? do you have any idea how many good people, previous staff members, mods and volunteers you've actually insulted? it's not that Innogames decided (for whatever technology/business reasons) to put their resources elsewhere and let this game slowly die with minimum investment until they finally pull the plug? well then, get back to reading the old posts because there is A LOT that you missed.
until you do that and catch up on the facts, you dismissed yourself from any serious conversation about this game.
 

Poker Alice

Active Member
well, thank you so much for joining the game and the forum and teaching us something new.
if only you were here in 2009 or 2010! oh, I so fondly remember the good old days when I was just starting... the first thing I did was join the forum and start attacking Innogames. I never tried proposing an idea, never complimented them on the good things they've done, never did anything constructive. it was all negativity and insults! I actually first created the forum account to throw mud at them, and only started playing 3 years later. wow, if only there was someone like you around to teach us the other way...

ffs who do you think you are to come here and tell us that we are negative and that the player base is guilty for Innogames not listening? go to the Ideas and brainfarts part of the forum, open the first posts from more than 10 years ago and start reading. your "holier than thou" attitude and unrealistic general ideas help nothing, you dropped out of nowhere with no experience or knowledge what this player base went through and start preaching that we are to blame?! seriously?!?
this is your conclusion? the player base is negative and toxic and that is the cause for management not to listen? do you have any idea how many good people, previous staff members, mods and volunteers you've actually insulted? it's not that Innogames decided (for whatever technology/business reasons) to put their resources elsewhere and let this game slowly die with minimum investment until they finally pull the plug? well then, get back to reading the old posts because there is A LOT that you missed.
until you do that and catch up on the facts, you dismissed yourself from any serious conversation about this game.
No, I disagree with your conclusion. I don't in any way shape or form have a "holier than thou" attitude because I am willing to admit my mistakes and will adjust anything, I might write if it is justified. I didn't come on this forum to insult anyone. I'm also not as you claim blaming anyone! I do however know what negativity is when I read it. You have absolutely nothing good to say about this game in this thread.

I do disagree that someone needs to have played this game since 2009 to understand it. Yes, the game play is complex enough which by the way is an excellent attribute for a free online game but that doesn't mean only vet's can play it. Anyone who has never played the game can start playing and be entertained as they learn new features they perhaps didn't expect existed :lovetw: and still understand the basics of game play.

It is very arrogant to think for anyone with a desire to play computer games (by the way some people have experience besides one particular game on the internet) cannot understand the basics of this particular video game unless they have played the game for many years. I didn't write that for 10 years all you did was complain and put down this game. It is however very obvious to me you are really good at doing that now.
 

Pankreas PorFavor

Well-Known Member
No, I disagree with your conclusion. I don't in any way shape or form have a "holier than thou" attitude because I am willing to admit my mistakes and will adjust anything, I might write if it is justified. I didn't come on this forum to insult anyone. I'm also not as you claim blaming anyone! I do however know what negativity is when I read it.
Didn't you write:
"By reading many of the posts in this forum, it isn't difficult to understand how complaints and attacks on how the game was being managed, were not really constructive suggestions or requests at all, so there is little wonder they would be interrupted by management as such and then not read seriously or read at all." (I suppose "interrupted" is a spell-check error and it should be "interpreted".)
I understand the above as - "since you are complaining and attacking the management, they don't want to talk to you". Isn't that blaming the players? and isn't it also untrue? because we've been cooperative, we have suggested ideas, we voted on them, they got passed to the devs, they responded on some of them in the development blog etc. etc. etc.... and at one point it stopped. the communication between Innogames and the players did not start yesterday, and you're missing more than a decade of history, but you decided to completely ignore it! that's the worst part!
your words - "that will certainly get the whole thing started off on a good foot". it started in 2008! there is nothing to start here, the game existed before you joined, the relationship between the company and its customers (players) existed for a long time, and yes, you recognize negativity because all of that is lost, and we who like this game are disappointed, sad, and even angry that our voice is not heard! and then you waltz in, read a few recent posts and say - well, of course, you're so negative that they don't want to talk to you! I'm sorry, but you have a hard time differentiating between the cause and effect in this case.


You have absolutely nothing good to say about this game in this thread.
This is a thread about saying nice things about the game? I am a paying customer for 11 years. Can I be any nicer than that? I'm paying their salary and they ignore me. now I don't even have the right to be negative about it according to you!? get out of here...
Btw. did you ever hear this one: “Your most unhappy customers are your greatest source of learning.” (Bill Gates) Think about it for a moment.


I do disagree that someone needs to have played this game since 2009 to understand it.
good. but nobody said that and I don't know what you're on about?
but also, if you want to comment about the relationship between a company and its customers, you should learn a bit of that history, don't you think?


I didn't write that for 10 years all you did was complain and put down this game. It is however very obvious to me you are really good at doing that now.
what is not obvious to you is WHY. you read what the players have to say. did you read what the company has to say? no? think about why you didn't. try it. "positive communication"? you know, communication is a two way street. but not here.... unfortunately.
 
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Poker Alice

Active Member
Pankreas, thank you for bringing my typo to my attention. Really. I actually appreciate those.

I do agree with you, communication can take an exit when it becomes undesirable. I have a couple of ideas that might fly or they might not. I'm not writing them in this thread. I wanted instead to discuss what I've read so many times on this forum (as stated in the op). I had hoped that something good might come out of it. No, not world changing but who knows sometimes discussion can get a person thinking and/or lead to other things. At least that is what happens to me when I've had reasonable discussions. I've read enough history about this game to understand your particular viewpoint. Sure, changing how the game functions might be a possibility for the better but I think something else must change first.

From what I have seen in this forum, management does not engage in debates with their customers but have set up a system for suggestions. You might send off any complaint you have with the company to the company. Since I am not the company, I'm sorry. but I can't help you with that.

It would be fun to run with an idea or two but I want to discuss any ideas I have with people willing to discuss them with me reasonably and without a chip on their shoulder. You might stop using the word "we" when communicating as I only hear your voice in comments unless you tell me you have been elected to represent some group? It isn't fun listening to you imply that my experience is invalid because of my start date. Really!!!!:annoyed:

I'm not saying to only to say nice things as this is the discussion/debate part of the forum but to who are you discussing with? My original argument still stands as I completely disagree with this whole way of thinking. I can see clearly from many posts in this forum and in the game forums just how angry people are. You demonstrate this well but that whole "we" are the elders with a grudge of the west know it all attitude is much too far over the top in my opinion.

Yes, a new start! As I said before I didn't create this thread to insult anyone but I am calling it as I see it. Could now be time to forget the past and move forward? It is what it is. Any new ideas anyone has should be able to be discussed, hashed over and submitted without the need to bring up the old cranky past but before that happens perhaps there actually needs to be some new blood here?

I'm sure there are still people in the world that have never played this game before and would be happy to join and take part in it.
 

Pankreas PorFavor

Well-Known Member
Sure, changing how the game functions might be a possibility for the better but I think something else must change first.
What?

From what I have seen in this forum, management does not engage in debates with their customers but have set up a system for suggestions.
yes, I have seen you successfully dig out a 5 years old thread in the Development discussions part of the forum. did you also notice how this system is completely ignored by Innogames? did you see how the last post on the development blog is from March 2017? did you see that the last episode of Inno TV is from Dec 2017 and the last mention of The West in it from July 2017?
or are you seriously buying the illusion that this "system for suggestions" actually works and someone is taking notice of it? really? did you ever report a bug in beta world just to see it deployed 2-3 weeks later in regular worlds?

You might send off any complaint you have with the company to the company.
even after all that's written here, you still don't get it, do you? no, I can't! they do not read any of these things. several members of staff have quit because they just couldn't reach anyone and any player feedback they tried to send upstairs was dismissed.

You might stop using the word "we" when communicating as I only hear your voice in comments unless you tell me you have been elected to represent some group? It isn't fun listening to you imply that my experience is invalid because of my start date. Really!!!!:annoyed:
well, the truth isn't always fun. sorry, but if you try and fail, and tray and fail and try and fail and... then we can talk about experience. so far, your experience with Innogames is nonexistent.
as far as "we" goes - you started it. you called out the player community here for chronic complaining, so it's obviously not just me doing it if there is so much of it that it made you start a whole new thread about it.
also, my replies did get a few likes so I think I do have a bit of right to think that my comments represent the thinking of more players than just myself.

I'm not saying to only to say nice things as this is the discussion/debate part of the forum but to who are you discussing with?
you, obviously. it's impossible to reach anyone at Innogames this way, and I certainly don't plan flying to Hamburg to go to their office and talk to them.


My original argument still stands as I completely disagree with this whole way of thinking.
no, it does not. after years of being constructive most people just gave up and left, and we who stayed are bitter because we remember something that was good and had (still has!) a lot of potential.

I can see clearly from many posts in this forum and in the game forums just how angry people are. You demonstrate this well but that whole "we" are the elders with a grudge of the west know it all attitude is much too far over the top in my opinion.
but this is something that you are attributing to this whole conversation, it's not the fact. it's not about who are "the elders" or anything like this, but you started this whole thread by calling us out (yes, us - not just me) for being negative and chronically complaining. please understand already - someone or something drove us to this point with their actions. OK? this is the only thing I want you to understand. there is a reason why people have this attitude. you have the right to your opinion, but you must also respect the facts.

Yes, a new start! As I said before I didn't create this thread to insult anyone but I am calling it as I see it. Could now be time to forget the past and move forward? It is what it is. Any new ideas anyone has should be able to be discussed, hashed over and submitted without the need to bring up the old cranky past but before that happens perhaps there actually needs to be some new blood here?
yes, PLEASE!! new blood, more players, active community, company that cares about its product! the player base is still here, as small as it is today, and they want to give Innogames the support they need in fulfilling The West's potential.
but, dear lady... your husband said he's going out to buy a pack of cigarettes, but he actually moved three time zones away and all you see are his posts on social networks. he doesn't answer his phone, reply to IMs or emails. maybe you think you're still married and your marriage can now have a fresh start - but he does not...
what are you trying to achieve here? get support from players to move forward? what power do we have?! those who complain are those who care, don't you understand? if you have an idea how to involve Innogames - please, speak here. but don't go around pointing a finger at the players and that it's our fault the game is in the state it is today. that is very unfair, and extremely incorrect.

I'm sure there are still people in the world that have never played this game before and would be happy to join and take part in it.
duh. I, and a lot of other players said this many times in this forum. if you dig out my posts all the way from 2012, you will see me asking - why don't you advertise The West like you do with other games, the numbers have dropped so low (foolish me, complaining when we had 10k people per world, now we're down to 700-1k), please do something! browser game of the year two times - and you're killing it!
no reply.... dropping from worlds with 40 sectors and 20-30k players, to map with 15 sectors and 750 players :(