Contagious Virus

RaiderTr

Well-Known Member
Complaining of complaining.. contagious indeed!

Let's not confuse.. Complaining with.. giving Feedback.. and making constructive criticism, though!

Yes.. people do tend to complain without offering solutions.
But then.. There has been too many suggestions to fixing piled up problems for years that now people got tired of doing that. (Well, who really visits forums nowadays anyway)

Still..
I guess I merged all 3 in one place: https://forum.beta.the-west.net/index.php?threads/situation-of-the-game.3477


Meanwhile.. A question..
Do you support Pay-to-win?
 

Nisa

Well-Known Member
. So, if you think a solution is to give everyone what they want, forget it. You can not please everyone and even if you do give to the sick one, the mutated virus will find something else to complain about.



If you like the west game or want to again then be aware and protect yourself from the deadly chronic complaining virus. You could be its next victim.
Too late now. Nothing works as it should because of the numerous changes thanks to players who were vocal and wanted it all easy way. And then add few wrong decisions made by wrong people and we are here. I cant complain. I am just sad.
 

RaiderTr

Well-Known Member
From what I heard though.. There were lots of other "vocal" people too that tried to fight against insane power-creep and immediate-buy Nugget sets..
Guess Inno just favored the "faster" (instead of more but slower) money way..

Ironically though, now most of the remaining small player base is the "die-hard" old-school people, yet we can't get any change at all.
 
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RaiderTr

Well-Known Member
There isn't much hope, but there is some, maybe..
conflict world
Before P2W/OP upgradable power-creeping sets hit the game it had much friendlier atmosphere. (Yes humans were always humans but without amplified "evil" side)

Now big spenders act like they must own everything just because they pay lots of real money.
And of course they surround themselves with the people who doesn't spend much but still loves to win for whatever cost.

That's Real life contagious capitalism virus for ya.
- - - - - - -
Well of course there are way too many "events" (click click ones, tombolas etc etc) and quests now..
Much less time for anything else.
 
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Pankreas PorFavor

Well-Known Member
I would be being untruthful even to myself if I pretended not to be influenced by what I have read in these forums regarding this western game. I am curious just how much real money it would take to buy out the "big spenders"? The reason for the question is not to stick my little nose into someone else's business but rather to have some information so as to offer a suggestion. My second question then would be how many people now playing this game would be willing to donate to a more "friendlier atmosphere". I suppose the only way to find out is put forth my suggestion and see what kind of response comes forth? It could be that a friendly atmosphere could attract more new players?

I would reply, but I don't even understand your question?! Does it have to be so cryptic?
Buy out big spenders? What's that supposed to mean, pay someone not to play? Or "donate to a friendlier atmosphere"? Pay someone to smile or..? :blink:
 

asdf124

Well-Known Member
I would be being untruthful even to myself if I pretended not to be influenced by what I have read in these forums regarding this western game. I am curious just how much real money it would take to buy out the "big spenders"? The reason for the question is not to stick my little nose into someone else's business but rather to have some information so as to offer a suggestion. My second question then would be how many people now playing this game would be willing to donate to a more "friendlier atmosphere". I suppose the only way to find out is put forth my suggestion and see what kind of response comes forth? It could be that a friendly atmosphere could attract more new players?

It is one heck of challenge to find out though because so few people read this forum and so few of the users actually wish to communicate whilst playing the game.

On a trivia note, I find it ironic that I started this topic before anyone knew a pandemic would become real world news. I agree personal and company (group of people) capitalism not a political definition can be contagious in these times but in times of change even these norms can change...
If you are asking about a server that would have "friendly" company only, it would be almost impossible since this is the internet, you will always find someone to ruin it all. By definition, I think you are asking about a private server availability of the west. I believe that has been an idea or a scrapped reward.

Or are you just asking about a private server availability?
 

Pankreas PorFavor

Well-Known Member
Poker Alice
Active Member
Joined Nov 2, 2019 - well, this probably explains it. it's been suggested too many times without an answer. give us classic The West (something you maybe never experienced? v1 of this game - no tombolas, no belts and pants, no crafting, no named items, just stuff you can buy in town stores etc.) and charge a (monthly? weekly? quarterly?) fee. players asked for this but Inno never answered to this request.
not sure how "friendly" plays a role here or what it would even mean because dueling and (later introduced) fort battles are/were the main theme of the game.
 

Pankreas PorFavor

Well-Known Member
By reading many of the posts in this forum, it isn't difficult to understand how complaints and attacks on how the game was being managed, were not really constructive suggestions or requests at all, so there is little wonder they would be interrupted by management as such and then not read seriously or read at all.

wow. I don't even know where to begin. maybe you need to read more of the old posts?
I really don't know what to say. this comment is like if someone would see slaves rioting and commenting "what a wild and violent bunch of people, no wonder they keep them in chains!"


So what needs to take place before any idea can be implemented?

1. Refresh the forum with a deletion of most of the dated posts?

2. A more upbeat forum with more players accessing it.

3. Create positive player to management communication?

0. Game owning company that wants to invest time/effort/money in this game.
 

Pankreas PorFavor

Well-Known Member
Well you do make a valid point I've got to give you that. You have demonstrated how even new posts like this one would follow the same old trend. So why delete any older posts then. sarcastic alert = Lets see how can we persuade a company to listen to our good ideas? Well we could suggest that they are acting like slave owners! Now that will certainly get the whole thing started off on a good foot. - end of sarcasm Oh my, that almost sounds like I am complaining. Is it possible I've caught the virus? :lol:

Zero, not so good. Members might need to invest and request change for the better good of all parties, so true.

well, thank you so much for joining the game and the forum and teaching us something new.
if only you were here in 2009 or 2010! oh, I so fondly remember the good old days when I was just starting... the first thing I did was join the forum and start attacking Innogames. I never tried proposing an idea, never complimented them on the good things they've done, never did anything constructive. it was all negativity and insults! I actually first created the forum account to throw mud at them, and only started playing 3 years later. wow, if only there was someone like you around to teach us the other way...

ffs who do you think you are to come here and tell us that we are negative and that the player base is guilty for Innogames not listening? go to the Ideas and brainfarts part of the forum, open the first posts from more than 10 years ago and start reading. your "holier than thou" attitude and unrealistic general ideas help nothing, you dropped out of nowhere with no experience or knowledge what this player base went through and start preaching that we are to blame?! seriously?!?
this is your conclusion? the player base is negative and toxic and that is the cause for management not to listen? do you have any idea how many good people, previous staff members, mods and volunteers you've actually insulted? it's not that Innogames decided (for whatever technology/business reasons) to put their resources elsewhere and let this game slowly die with minimum investment until they finally pull the plug? well then, get back to reading the old posts because there is A LOT that you missed.
until you do that and catch up on the facts, you dismissed yourself from any serious conversation about this game.
 

Pankreas PorFavor

Well-Known Member
No, I disagree with your conclusion. I don't in any way shape or form have a "holier than thou" attitude because I am willing to admit my mistakes and will adjust anything, I might write if it is justified. I didn't come on this forum to insult anyone. I'm also not as you claim blaming anyone! I do however know what negativity is when I read it.

Didn't you write:
"By reading many of the posts in this forum, it isn't difficult to understand how complaints and attacks on how the game was being managed, were not really constructive suggestions or requests at all, so there is little wonder they would be interrupted by management as such and then not read seriously or read at all." (I suppose "interrupted" is a spell-check error and it should be "interpreted".)
I understand the above as - "since you are complaining and attacking the management, they don't want to talk to you". Isn't that blaming the players? and isn't it also untrue? because we've been cooperative, we have suggested ideas, we voted on them, they got passed to the devs, they responded on some of them in the development blog etc. etc. etc.... and at one point it stopped. the communication between Innogames and the players did not start yesterday, and you're missing more than a decade of history, but you decided to completely ignore it! that's the worst part!
your words - "that will certainly get the whole thing started off on a good foot". it started in 2008! there is nothing to start here, the game existed before you joined, the relationship between the company and its customers (players) existed for a long time, and yes, you recognize negativity because all of that is lost, and we who like this game are disappointed, sad, and even angry that our voice is not heard! and then you waltz in, read a few recent posts and say - well, of course, you're so negative that they don't want to talk to you! I'm sorry, but you have a hard time differentiating between the cause and effect in this case.


You have absolutely nothing good to say about this game in this thread.

This is a thread about saying nice things about the game? I am a paying customer for 11 years. Can I be any nicer than that? I'm paying their salary and they ignore me. now I don't even have the right to be negative about it according to you!? get out of here...
Btw. did you ever hear this one: “Your most unhappy customers are your greatest source of learning.” (Bill Gates) Think about it for a moment.


I do disagree that someone needs to have played this game since 2009 to understand it.

good. but nobody said that and I don't know what you're on about?
but also, if you want to comment about the relationship between a company and its customers, you should learn a bit of that history, don't you think?


I didn't write that for 10 years all you did was complain and put down this game. It is however very obvious to me you are really good at doing that now.

what is not obvious to you is WHY. you read what the players have to say. did you read what the company has to say? no? think about why you didn't. try it. "positive communication"? you know, communication is a two way street. but not here.... unfortunately.
 
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Pankreas PorFavor

Well-Known Member
Sure, changing how the game functions might be a possibility for the better but I think something else must change first.

What?

From what I have seen in this forum, management does not engage in debates with their customers but have set up a system for suggestions.

yes, I have seen you successfully dig out a 5 years old thread in the Development discussions part of the forum. did you also notice how this system is completely ignored by Innogames? did you see how the last post on the development blog is from March 2017? did you see that the last episode of Inno TV is from Dec 2017 and the last mention of The West in it from July 2017?
or are you seriously buying the illusion that this "system for suggestions" actually works and someone is taking notice of it? really? did you ever report a bug in beta world just to see it deployed 2-3 weeks later in regular worlds?

You might send off any complaint you have with the company to the company.

even after all that's written here, you still don't get it, do you? no, I can't! they do not read any of these things. several members of staff have quit because they just couldn't reach anyone and any player feedback they tried to send upstairs was dismissed.

You might stop using the word "we" when communicating as I only hear your voice in comments unless you tell me you have been elected to represent some group? It isn't fun listening to you imply that my experience is invalid because of my start date. Really!!!!:annoyed:

well, the truth isn't always fun. sorry, but if you try and fail, and tray and fail and try and fail and... then we can talk about experience. so far, your experience with Innogames is nonexistent.
as far as "we" goes - you started it. you called out the player community here for chronic complaining, so it's obviously not just me doing it if there is so much of it that it made you start a whole new thread about it.
also, my replies did get a few likes so I think I do have a bit of right to think that my comments represent the thinking of more players than just myself.

I'm not saying to only to say nice things as this is the discussion/debate part of the forum but to who are you discussing with?

you, obviously. it's impossible to reach anyone at Innogames this way, and I certainly don't plan flying to Hamburg to go to their office and talk to them.


My original argument still stands as I completely disagree with this whole way of thinking.

no, it does not. after years of being constructive most people just gave up and left, and we who stayed are bitter because we remember something that was good and had (still has!) a lot of potential.

I can see clearly from many posts in this forum and in the game forums just how angry people are. You demonstrate this well but that whole "we" are the elders with a grudge of the west know it all attitude is much too far over the top in my opinion.

but this is something that you are attributing to this whole conversation, it's not the fact. it's not about who are "the elders" or anything like this, but you started this whole thread by calling us out (yes, us - not just me) for being negative and chronically complaining. please understand already - someone or something drove us to this point with their actions. OK? this is the only thing I want you to understand. there is a reason why people have this attitude. you have the right to your opinion, but you must also respect the facts.

Yes, a new start! As I said before I didn't create this thread to insult anyone but I am calling it as I see it. Could now be time to forget the past and move forward? It is what it is. Any new ideas anyone has should be able to be discussed, hashed over and submitted without the need to bring up the old cranky past but before that happens perhaps there actually needs to be some new blood here?

yes, PLEASE!! new blood, more players, active community, company that cares about its product! the player base is still here, as small as it is today, and they want to give Innogames the support they need in fulfilling The West's potential.
but, dear lady... your husband said he's going out to buy a pack of cigarettes, but he actually moved three time zones away and all you see are his posts on social networks. he doesn't answer his phone, reply to IMs or emails. maybe you think you're still married and your marriage can now have a fresh start - but he does not...
what are you trying to achieve here? get support from players to move forward? what power do we have?! those who complain are those who care, don't you understand? if you have an idea how to involve Innogames - please, speak here. but don't go around pointing a finger at the players and that it's our fault the game is in the state it is today. that is very unfair, and extremely incorrect.

I'm sure there are still people in the world that have never played this game before and would be happy to join and take part in it.

duh. I, and a lot of other players said this many times in this forum. if you dig out my posts all the way from 2012, you will see me asking - why don't you advertise The West like you do with other games, the numbers have dropped so low (foolish me, complaining when we had 10k people per world, now we're down to 700-1k), please do something! browser game of the year two times - and you're killing it!
no reply.... dropping from worlds with 40 sectors and 20-30k players, to map with 15 sectors and 750 players :(
 

Pankreas PorFavor

Well-Known Member
I will however stand up for myself in debate like fashion and say I don't agree with what you have said about me.

I don't remember saying anything about you personally. I did comment what you wrote, but I don't think I said anything about you. If I did, please let me know what was it that offended you.


If I was in charge of a company/online game I wouldn't put up with it.

Ignoring the unhappy customer is the worst thing an owner of any business can do. It's one thing when it's just rambling of an occasional freak, but when so many of your customers are saying the same thing... you should think about it.
I'll quote Bill Gates again - “Your most unhappy customers are your greatest source of learning.”
 

asdf124

Well-Known Member
It is very arrogant to think for anyone with a desire to play computer games (by the way some people have experience besides one particular game on the internet) cannot understand the basics of this particular video game unless they have played the game for many years. I didn't write that for 10 years all you did was complain and put down this game. It is however very obvious to me you are really good at doing that now.
One thing for certain that you are wrong about is how innogames have operated over the years. I don't know what gaming experiences you had, however I have been on this game for about 10 years except 2 years. One thing is for certain, once a game is not popular, the company decides not to listen to its community. Why? It is rather simple, they have to actually treat it like cattle. Its just too old so milking it is just harder. Two options, milk it harder or simply butcher it for the meat. Right now, they are still milking it and in consideration to simply butcher it.

So, your gaming experience would be for a company to actually hear my plea for better changes would mean: If I make my idea as best as I could without any hostility. I would be getting my plea heard. This is pretty naive and depends on the gaming company, who you are, and the community of said game. Gaming companies usually have their focus on making money obviously but some do the extra mile to satisfy their end users, and that is certainly not most of their investors.

At its peak for the west I remember they had a thing that said 10 million players so far or something like that with the best browser game of 2008 and another was 2010 awards. My point is, what do you think happened to those people? Why did they decide to suddenly leave? "Oh cause people were complaining all the time in forums?"

It has been years since the last idea was implemented, the last idea to ever be implemented to improve the system was foscock's round shuffling in adventures. It would be interesting if they did it in fort fights too, but no they won't do that cause who says they ever read the forums here? :D
 

Pankreas PorFavor

Well-Known Member
At its peak for the west I remember they had a thing that said 10 million players so far or something like that with the best browser game of 2008 and another was 2010 awards.

Sorry, I have to correct you ;) The awards are still on the login page, it's 2008 and 2011. And the line about the players that was also there said "17 million worldwide". Seeing "highly populated" Colorado with 1400 players (how many really active?) or "average population" of Dakota at 740 (as an example) makes the whole story even more tragically funny.
 

asdf124

Well-Known Member
Sorry, I have to correct you ;) The awards are still on the login page, it's 2008 and 2011. And the line about the players that was also there said "17 million
worldwide". Seeing "highly populated" Colorado with 1400 players (how many really active?) or "average population" of Dakota at 740 (as an example) makes the whole story even more tragically funny.
I know it was in the front page but the 17m I couldn't find anymore.
I could easily complain about being tired of listening to complaining but then I would be complaining too right?:-( We are all human and can catch a virus. The OP was not designed to be about company business but rather was directed at the individual player. If it has been determined that a plea for a change is not going to occur, I just can't see how constant complaining about the same ole things will make any difference. The only question left to ask is can the game still be enjoyed exactly the way it is by the present player base?

Most of the playerbase is getting bored with the similar tactics, keep shuffling same tactics. Make mini events to try to distract the playerbase, then release a nugget set 4 times a year, 4 more events(Valentine, easter, independence day, octoberfest, day of the dead, and christmas event) Each time they sometimes release better gear, sometimes they don't. So eventually a large chunk will leave. The only reason we have an uptick right now is due to the fact we have quarantines in most of the world.

Just give it until next year or 2022 world cup and people will be leaving soon.
 

Pankreas PorFavor

Well-Known Member
I could easily complain about being tired of listening to complaining but then I would be complaining too right?:-(

that's like complaining about the program on "the golf channel". not interested in golf? use the remote and switch the channel. same with this forum. don't like the topic? don't read it, there are other threads about other stuff.


I just can't see how constant complaining about the same ole things will make any difference.

what do you care? we are discussing stuff, complaining about what we don't like, remembering what we used to like, proposing what we would like to have in the future, even if we know it's not realistic. but we're allowed to dream, aren't we? maybe one of us will win the jackpot and buy Innogames, then implement the changes we suggested? :p


The only question left to ask is can the game still be enjoyed exactly the way it is by the present player base?

we're still here, aren't we? there are still things that we like. and as one of the forum members often says - players are the content of this game. even if the environment is not as good as it was, there's still a lot of players around that we like to interact with.
 

asdf124

Well-Known Member
I created this topic and can maintain an interest in it as well as look at other topics, yeah true. Perhaps you misunderstood what I wrote in that I was simply stating what I still believe to be true.
And where will the go? Forge of Empires? The real stats will indeed show that players come and go and yes there will also be a steady membership base. Isn't that pretty standard for online video games ? I'm not sure and not an expert in the game industry.

Who knows, in any game forum there could be some players able to put their heads together and come up with some very cool ideas to make any game better or even create something entirely new but in the end it is the developers that present the package as they see fit. In the meantime back at the ranch in the west...
Currently, its not even the developers that actually have any say in it. Just the product manager of the-west.
 
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