Contagious Virus

Pankreas PorFavor

Well-Known Member
@ Pankreas you can't seem to accept a different point of view from another player without becoming angry, disrespectful and insulting.

saying that what other players write in this forum is "nothing more but complaints and sarcastic comments" is not a point of view, it is disrespectful and insulting. saying that players are to blame that Innogames is ignoring their feedback is not a point of view, it is disrespectful and insulting. saying that pvp is the less cooperative part of the game is incorrect. saying that I wrote something that I didn't is disrespectful and insulting. being proven wrong, and not accepting it is disrespectful and insulting.
does that make me angry? no, not really, but it irritates me. and of course, what you gave is what you received back.

I never opposed your point of view (you like different parts of the game than me? who cares, you play how you want to play, thousands of other players do it), I only conflicted about facts that can be easily checked. it can be done by anyone who wants to scroll up in this thread.
 

lulumcnoob

Well-Known Member
so, about the original point of this thread, I think... I suppose the ends have eventually justified the means with regards to complaining about fort fighting. Inno changed their stance from "the game is feature complete and we have other priorities" to actually legitimately letting the Devs work on fort battles again. I think a lot of it had to do with a hard push from the fort fighting community in the last few years, and the un-ignorable issues with the IFBC. I also finally have a quote for @Poker Alice about the game maker's intentions.

MJuFhtO.png


Even though experience told me Fort battles weren't working as intended, you only needed to look at and analyse the facts to see it, or I suppose you could learn that through reading the forums and seeing players complain about it, or from the hundreds of friends who have quit because of it, and now they know that at a minimum, they can fill an event world with more fort fighters than Colorado has total players, maybe someone in charge now believes, like me, that this is a vital part of the game to actually have in working order.

So if some part of the game you love is ever literally broken, you have a voice on the forums too. Long live complaining. MakeTheWestGreatAgain :lovetw:
 
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Harsha..

Well-Known Member
@Poker Alice I must disagree with the original point of this thread, that if we have a few people unhappy with the game and they start to complain, it somehow "infects" other people and they start complaining, until the whole community starts to do it too. That is not how it works at all - complaining generally happens on a vast scale only if something is seriously wrong. We have seen it with all sorts of products - if a formerly good product takes a negative direction, people complain and that makes the company effect changes. Most of the people who I have seen post criticism about the game, I know are generally sensible people who only post it for good reasons and not just for the sake of complaining.

I must also point you to how many people used to play the game through the years and how many people are left playing it now. If you had a point and that the complaining was unjustified, then this game would not have lost all those players through the years. Games in general lose players if they do not satisfy them.

I've played with most of the features of the west game in various degree's and so far continue to have wide range of interests. I don't think the owners intention was to create only two of ways for players to use the game, person to person conflict or person to person non conflict. I do want to write something around the subject of berry picking specifically as I think it really deserves it's own thread.

Mostly, the only way I can see to constructively move forward with this debate is for you to further expand on those points you have mentioned. What kinds of improvement do you think is more essential for the game? - and, of course on how you see the other non PvP aspects of the game like berry picking in a separate post. I genuinely would be interested in reading that.
 
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Pankreas PorFavor

Well-Known Member
Not true. You have been in opposition with my point of view since you started posting.

first the above, and immediately in the next sentence you write something that disproves it:

Your first comment said the post was too cryptic for you.

so, being in opposition is the same as "I don't understand what you're saying"? OK...

and I wasn't the only one who asked it in this thread - what are you actually trying to say or propose here? except that we complain too much...
I still don't see what exactly is your point?

It was obvious you didn't like the post and continued to express being irritable throughout.

oh, I'm supposed to like reading that everything I and other players ever wrote here are nothing more than complaints and sarcastic comments?
btw. the one who introduced sarcastic comments in our communication was you (see your post on May 24)

What I wrote before and what I am writing now is that I have read sarcastic comments from one player to another and complaints in this forum and in the game chats. That isn't attempting to be insulting and is it a fact as these things do exist?

apples exist.
nothing more but apples exists.
I don't know if it's more sad that you don't understand the difference between these two sentences, or that you don't admit the difference. in any case, as is obvious from the 4 pages of this thread it is pointless to talk about it with you.

Anyone can make this observation and for that matter in other games online. I have not changed my viewpoint on how gamer's sometimes interact with each other. When there is constant complaining people and organizations do sometimes ignore.

and still you insist on constant complaining... have you checked the posts from the last month or so? just how many are complaints?
btw. I also haven't changed my opinion on all players having the right to say what they want in the forum, or play the game the way they want. I am not sure why that was ever mentioned in this thread at all, but lets repeat it, just in case, ok?

This business of suggesting that only your "facts" in this discussion are the correct ones is complete and utter horse manure.

Finally we agree. I have never suggested anything like that, what you just wrote is - horse manure, as you said (angry? aggressive? insulting? finally direct! :-)))
on the other hand, I was the one stating facts. you feel and have opinions. still didn't say what they're based on, but ok, nevermind, I don't expect anything like this from you. don't bother.

I'm hoping someone, anyone can add something to this discussion which is new because all I am getting from you @Pankreas PorFavor is the same repetitive things.

that was my hope from the start. is there any chance that we get something concrete from you? you promised ideas right from the start...
"I have a few ideas that might work but they will stay only ideas unless the desire and willingness to make a change is present." written on May 23
"communication can take an exit when it becomes undesirable. I have a couple of ideas that might fly or they might not. I'm not writing them in this thread." May 25. Still looking forward to the thread where these ideas will be posted.
"I do want to write something around the subject of berry picking specifically as I think it really deserves it's own thread." June 4. I hope the thread will start soon?
(if you don't recognize the text above, that's what direct quotes look like.)

My complaint now is your comments are getting boring!!!!!

oh, I wasn't aware that my purpose here is to entertain you?

anyway... I am also looking forward to this new discussion, but can you describe in a few simple short sentences what exactly the topic is?
from what I understood so far, players are complaining too much, in your opinion. was there anything else?
 

Pankreas PorFavor

Well-Known Member
Yes it is true, we do complain too much -> sometimes.

with one huge difference.
while most others constructively complain about things they would like to see changed and improved about this game, you complain about their effort and recommend "shut up and be happy" attitude, enjoy the game as it is.
you finally did give some credit to those people in your reply to lulu which is nice. it would be even better if you would say that you're sorry for blaming them for not doing anything else but being negative. it would be nice to admit that you started with open negativity towards other players. but the nicest thing would be if you finally wrote something constructive and proposed some of the ideas you mentioned.
 

Pankreas PorFavor

Well-Known Member
Where did I write shut up and be happy?

you didn't, and I didn't say that you did.
I just described the attitude of someone who says "you don't do anything but complain" and "can't the game be enjoyed as it is" as such. maybe that will help you understand my reaction?

and yes, my attitude is not friendly, and it won't be friendly as long as the best you can do is "that's not what I meant". road to hell is paved with good intentions, as they say. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and say that maybe it wasn't your intention. but you did insult, you did blame players for the state of the game. you did describe game components in a wrong way showing lack of understanding of the game mechanics, and never admitted to making this mistake, again showing disrespect. I mean, the basic idea of this thread is telling the players that the only thing they do here is complain! I'm sorry, but how is this an invite to a constructive debate?
did you give any alternative? even when asked directly, all you gave are vague hints (players should invest? still don't know what this means), you mentioned that you have ideas - but it never went further from this. the whole thread is so long, but I still didn't see anything concrete and constructive from you? my first reply was that I don't understand your questions, my second was that I noticed you are new and that you don't know the history of the game, the third was a metaphor about slaves (how all you see is the consequence - complaints, but not how we got there) as a response to repeated "you complain too much", and there was nothing impolite, aggressive, insulting or confrontational in those replies. your response was sarcasm and continued accusations that we, the players who give negative feedback about certain game features, are to blame that Inno is not listening. how is that contributing to a friendly atmosphere and constructive debate?
and - I still don't understand what are we supposed to be debating about and where that should take us!? amount of complaining? really? you say it's too much, I say it's not enough, someone else says it's just the right measure. and nothing can be objectively concluded. what would be the result of this debate?

btw. the result of our complains - fort fighting is now undergoing a change, based on player's feedback. one could argue that we should have complained more and maybe the change would come earlier?
 

Pankreas PorFavor

Well-Known Member
The basic idea of the thread was not to "tell players the only thing they do here is complain." We all, including me, can fall victim to chronic complaining.

then why did you say that what the players are writing in this forum is "nothing more but complaints and sarcastic comments"? direct quote of your words, not mine.
why did you say that when this is what players are doing, it is perfectly understandable that Innogames will ignore them?
and if that is not what you meant, will you ever apologize for saying this and using the wrong words when expressing your thoughts? will you ever say, I am sorry for insulting you, dismissing your efforts, your constructive feedback? because, even if you didn't mean it - it is what you wrote.
 

Pankreas PorFavor

Well-Known Member
I would need to go back and look at the context

context? it's in the first post, you opened the topic with it, and proudly quoted it a couple of times on the last 5 pages as proof of your good intentions. :no::roll:
"If you read nothing more but complaints and sarcastic comments which do very little but run down, what would you do?"
this is your introduction to the debate, after only 3 months or so of being in this game? dear players, all you do in this forum is complaints and sarcasm, of course the makers of the game won't listen to you.
sure, there is a pink ribbon around it, a sticker with a unicorn and rainbows on the wrapping paper, but I've dealt with enough passive aggressive stuff in my life to see beyond it. I read it in February, shook my head and decided to ignore. but when you dug it up again 3 months later, I couldn't resist. and you still didn't explain what exactly you are proposing.

but if I recall from memory I was referring to some things I've read in this forum and in game which only really serve to slur players and games owners . Some things are not written for humor or to be constructive. This isn't implying that everyone and everything which is written in the forum doesn't have any value.

agreed, it's not implying, it's explicitly said so.

Some things I've read are constructive. I was generalizing around the topic.

long live generalization. :hmf: I suppose that's the part that is going to contribute to a friendlier atmosphere and whatnot?
but at least you admit now that these are only "some things", even after you quoted this same statement 3 times. if only you could take one more step in that direction...
 

Pankreas PorFavor

Well-Known Member
:no:The part which is going to contribute to a friendly atmosphere, I'm convinced will not be coming from you. You have clearly stated you are not friendly and your comments clearly demonstrate this.

what you choose to ignore is why I am not friendly towards you, and only you.
since you're so stubborn that you don't want to admit that your generalizations are wrong, that you insulted other players with them, and refuse to apologize for this insult, give me one rational reason why I would ever want to be friendly to you?

Bringing the original post to view has nothing to do with pride. It was done rather to clearly show how much your statements are not on topic but instead about you being agitated with the topic. What you scribble down in comments I certainly don't accept as being constructive at all.

the first thing that's on my mind after being insulted, receiving sarcastic comments after pointing it out is to show constructive initiative and make friends with you, is that what you expect?
btw. what am I supposed to be constructive about if there are no ideas or proposals in your post? "all you do is complain" - where does it go from here, what can be built on top of this?


According to you all posts must be a proposal. Posts must not generalize. What gives you the right to determine this in the discussion section of this forum?

as soon as I request that all posts must be proposals or that generalizations are not allowed, I will explain it.
until then, I will ask you again not to put words in my mouth and to refrain from generalizations that are insulting to other members of this community. I am aware that there is little point in asking this from someone who is so small that they can't apologize when they insulted someone (unintentionally? I doubt it more and more). but at least it serves as a warning to anyone else that may engage in conversation with you.

this is going nowhere. you're doing worse things than the people you described in your original post. at least they were complaining about the game, you're complaining about players and insulting them based on a few posts that you read in this forum. I already wasted too much time on it, and it is sickening the way you behave. I am looking forward to see how this thread will develop further, and wonder if we will ever see those ideas you mentioned earlier. I don't have any high hopes for any contribution to this community from someone who painted such an ugly picture about it, but I will let myself be surprised.
 

lulumcnoob

Well-Known Member
I was attempting previously to suggest possibly that mostly gamer's keenly interested in player versus player use the forum while other players do not so much. The question is I wonder why? Is it because the other features are not worthy discussion or not as interesting or could it be for other reasons? I would like to explore that a little.
I dunno, most players who don't engage in the PvP aspects of the game seem to rarely even type a word in the ingame chat, never mind read telegrams or participate in ingame forums. External forums have even less exposure to players, so it's naturally the most active or the players who are experiencing the most grievance at something at a particular time who are writing on the forums, while others visit to read threads and announcements. Every rule has exceptions though, and some forum users are just old players from back when the forums were active, they don't even play anymore.
 
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asdf124

Well-Known Member
The west game is for children? :cool: That's not an insult. When I look at video games in general I think of the board game checkers. It's a family game simple enough for a child to play, yet enjoyed by all members of the family. Unless its going to be played on a table with squares made with a black marker and coins for pieces someone needs to manufacture and market the game. That requires an adult or a youth with some intention and some very cool skills. The same certainly applies to video games. And some games continue to be developed over time and often a game can be a hit then evolves into a real business. Making them more complicated like moving from checkers to chess might raise the age level slightly but it is still just a game. My point, the product of all the effort is still a game.

If I personally had an agenda which I don't other than to have a reasonable discussion on the forum would be to try to involve all players a little more in telegrams and forums. To involve more players however seems not to be easy. There are a number of problems to over come. One problem for example is...
new members are not always welcomed with open arms (noobs). Some players I have communicated with I know feel intimidated or afraid since they need to be very careful with what they might write as not to overstep or offend the warlord(s) of the game? :mad:
All hail the warlords, wait am I a warlord? :O

I think the point you are making is that there is more to discuss in connection with player versus player than there is with the other things players can do? Is that what you meant, did I get that right? I'm not sure if the question was making a point or was wanting to discuss something?

I was attempting previously to suggest possibly that mostly gamer's keenly interested in player versus player use the forum while other players do not so much. The question is I wonder why? Is it because the other features are not worthy discussion or not as interesting or could it be for other reasons? I would like to explore that a little.

I was asking if that kind of marketplace(solo player who doesn't communicate) actually exist since a lot of quests tend to have things that would need them to communicate. And they usually don't really want to communicate, hence the question why would they want to attract more of that kind of players. Is that marketplace a huge one or is it a small one?
 

Tucker Blue

Well-Known Member
Complaints are a normal thing. They should be expected. However complaining about something while offering no solution is absolutely, 100% useless.
 

lulumcnoob

Well-Known Member
at least one player thought that by maintaining constant complaints it would eventually be heard and acted on
I'd like to add that no one actually thought they would act on our complaints after years of neglect, those were just passionate players who knew something needed to be done to make the game good again. I think it had more to do with the timing of the IFBC than anything else.

Constructive feedback is the entire point of some of these forums existing. Some might not know how to fix an issue, but can still serve the community by highlighting it.
 

Nisa

Well-Known Member
new members are not always welcomed with open arms (noobs). Some players I have communicated with I know feel intimidated or afraid since they need to be very careful with what they might write as not to overstep or offend the warlord(s) of the game? :mad:


New players are very welcome and there are many players willing to help new players to make the game easier for them with advices , items , money etc. However some 'gamers' think they know everything about the game because they played other games, similar and instead of taking advices and exploring the game first they feel competent to 'teach others'
I started this game in October 2008. am I a warlord in your opinion ? Could you at least give some credits to the old players about being experienced about all changes in game and witnessing good and bad things.
Why does one think other players that are longer on game didnt already suggest something and got refused or ignored by owners ,but instead, something else got added to the game that was 'good addition 'in their mind without knowing the game.
Warlords as you say are tired and annoyed of 'them' ruining the game so please try to understand why they react as they do.

From what I've read in this thread at least one player thought that by maintaining constant complaints it would eventually be heard and acted on. I agree that if a solution, a good solution for both parties is presented then it would be much easier to satisfy. Satisfy until the next complaint.

That is your optimism talking and it is totally normal reasoning of how it should work , but once you realise that complaint and constructive criticism is ignored you will be sad and frustrated as the rest of inactive players on forum. Huge damage is done , can it be fixed or is too late ?
 
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