Feedback Community Project: Fort Limit Rebalancing

[Alduin]

I would say that there's a strong chance things could be improved, mostly because after the last IFBC, we had two formula changes to test that were both better than now. The main issue, i believe, was that someone wanted to increase the level cap so it would be pointless to implement these changes until that was decided and the damage assessed. Two years later we are here...

I read your post on "level cap update" and i am agree with what you said there. I highly doubt theres people who only does jobs, duels with bandits or makes quests. Saying for sake of clarity going 175-200 or whatever level they planned to advance before with current game will not change anything but make it worse. Most of active players here for fort fights, even dueling isnt fun these days. Imagine being 20-25 guns lesser than attacker also at least 15-20 levels below them as not everyone gathered enough experience for this instance. What going to happen ? More quits and unrest.

 

[DeletedUser15368]

Saying for sake of clarity going 175-200 or whatever level they planned to advance before with current game will not change anything but make it worse.

This is a really good point, we don't even know if they're going for level 155, or level 500.

More quits and unrest.

Big props to the 300 IQ players who spammed church building for the last 6 years though

 

[Alduin]

Big props to the 300 IQ players who spammed church building for the last 6 years though

I spammed a lot church to reach 150, approx 3000 hours to be exact. Middle country doesnt provide enough experience and quests like "go work on x for 500 hours, here is your reward 100$ 200exp". Order to be competitive you need to reach higher levels fast but having to be locked down in front of The West while farming 15s on middle country is not enough. As you said "clicking on few button and waiting some hours" is best way to get a level also making the game stale and boring. Need really big overhaul to game current system is bad and favoring only paying players best to see on new worlds.

 

[DeletedUser15368]

I used construction to level and farm event currency too, because it's the most efficient way. It's boring but it's the correct play in the current state of the game.
That was more a shot at those who kept building after level 150

 

[Alduin]

That was more a shot at those who kept building after level 150

Eh, gathering some exp just in case they raise level no matter what. This is their game, we are just players. If they wanna ruin it they are welcomed to do so, plenty games to replace but they aren't yet to aware. Maintaining core community of 100 people that spends average 10€ per month is way more profitable than 5-10 people spending 25-30€ per month. Unless they are willing to do whatever it takes, asking for feedback is pointless. We need way more general "feedback" post to give proper feedback as we slowly getting away from topic so i will stop here.

 

[kayakjeepgirl]

Whoa an old name from the past...you still play Crapventures?

Oh Aby how I miss our fun days! yes I do still play sometimes, hope to see you on the mill again one day my friend until then mooches smooches!

 

[Abydos1]

Oh Aby how I miss our fun days! yes I do still play sometimes, hope to see you on the mill again one day my friend until then mooches smooches!

Yeah, you should join us in Colorado we still have a few fort battles...

 

[Victor Kruger]

I used construction to level and farm event currency too, because it's the most efficient way. It's boring but it's the correct play in the current state of the game.
That was more a shot at those who kept building after level 150

All they have to do is start all 150 from 0 ie post 150 new xp tree when or if they raise lvl cap... yea i know the current xp table will become defunct but if they dont, the games done imo and we all know why .... I for one wont be grinding another 50 lvls out, not watching an uber class emerge thx nor subjecting myself to being raped by 1000 + duel damage by one or whatever huge headache itll bring to FF and balance. Its bad enough as it is with upgrades and what already been released.

All that will be left are a few hundred uber lvl whatever berry pickers who have been grinding church etc forever, just the most dumbest update they could do.. i cant see many sticking around who have got to 150 then repecced to do other things after like FF or duel or go finish quests etc ...... I Fully expect it to happen ofc so making the most of things until then and thats getting harder every month what with yet another stupidly OP set Jaguars.

And i hate to be negative but i see absolutely 0 benefit to any but a very very small number on already dead worlds, n you bet being migrated to another wont make them popular at all with the receiving world either.

Maybe the mystery of the church will be finally revealed .. It is said going to church brings you closer to God .. in this case God mode maybe. ? Cant wait to see what lvl 2 or 3 Union, Cortinas or dueling Jaguars, Josephines or other OP sets n stats will do for any kind of balance ... wont that be fun ? not.................... 5 vs 8 battles coming to a world near you soon ?

 

[Liberty Valance]

We do not need to change the number of players allowed in a FF. We need more incentives for the players who are allowed to play to show up.

 

[roland jacobs]

Incentives has me thinking

• items not special enough - everybody mocks
• items that have more - everybody complains about power creep
• random item drops - I wasn't around in 2008-2010, so I don't know the frequency of the random chest drops. Too few = complaints, too many = 6 months of battles and done. The 3rd key drop idea is the basis though - it's an item to get a part of a set, not the entire set or even the entire item, but it was very critical to get at one point.
• buffs - chars may or may not have enough already (spinach for the losing side would be good**)
• pride/alliance - the way some want it, the char beside you today will be shooting at you tomorrow. This takes away some of the 'edge' and then leads to apathy (shout out to Victor's comment - colorado battles and @Victor Kruger - if I associated your comment out of context, I'll remove with apologies)
  
  
• rewarding the battle leader - if it's automatic, welcome to the multi dig frenzy. There is already a 1 person town digging battles in a couple worlds. There would definitely need to be "number of players attending" and "number of rounds completed" in order to achieve the reward.
  
  
• lowering numbers - at some point, the entire strategy of attack or defense is entirely removed and it's just blah, flag rush.
  which is why this will eventually happen:
  

  5 vs 8 battles coming to a world near you soon ?

** then my thought about this - if there are rewards for losing, then there is no push to get better. Participation trophies all around.

I would say that there's a strong chance things could be improved, mostly because after the last IFBC, we had two formula changes to test that were both better than now. The main issue, i believe, was that someone wanted to increase the level cap so it would be pointless to implement these changes until that was decided and the damage assessed. Two years later we are here...

Were the changes implemented and tested in IFBC, or just deployed to the game?

 

[Deleted User - 4139925]

there is no feedback to add about the main topic of this post imo as long as you don't fix the game. it's just like putting a patch on a broken leg

anyway, i have some stuff to comment about:

-the updated bond/xp rewards for fort fights is a necessity, not a suggestion...but a clever way should be found for all the classes to win the same rewards so there are no complaints there. I would boost the xp reward at least 4-6 times. as a dueler I make bonds more than easily doing nothing, so doubling the bonds rewards, idk....but sure, wouldn't be any bad, I guess.

-a fort shop that works exactly the same way as the adventure one with the veterans points is easy to implement and i'm sure it would boost attendance...and if not, it'll at least give people something to show up for instead of "fun" which is kind of inexistent at this point (and with this occasion update the veteran point shop too - or actually make it the same currency, maybe that would boost number of players playing adventures too. but do update it)

-i'm not sure about these fort chests...you already get a lot of free stuff, what's the point? you're soon gonna ask for free premium (which is already given pretty often). although, with a new fort shop added a chest could be added to buy with "fort points"

-rewarding the battle leader...yeah, sure. and that would work together with my suggestion of changing the ranking system...if whoever's suggestion to move offliners by the leader cannot be implemented

https://forum.the-west.net/index.php?threads/new-fort-fighting-ranking-system.59936/

-i'm surpsied nobody mentioned it but AWESOMIA BATTLES were something promised right after Nyborg was booted out, you dug one battle or something and after that you just pretended we never had this discussion at all. but ofc since you couldn't dig even the ones on schedule for the event...that's asking a bit much...isn't it?

-i'm gonna repeat myself until someone understands that until you don't change the defense bonus on towers with at least -5% we're gonna keep being stuck in this limbo forever until you release some op set for attack

-i would like to see a new battle map or whatever but that seems pretty much impossible so won't bother commenting on that

-despite my personal opinion that advent is just fine as it is because it is super good if it manages to ghost 5-7 times a battle (which happens pretty often if you're not a complete idiot)....the other bonuses have to be reworked. that's another discussion though, it's not fort related. (that's for all the classes, not only advent)
advent is pretty lame to play indeed but don't play advent if you don't like it. I personally like my advent that has 16k hp at lvl137 and it manages to do pretty well with only lv1 cortina (not full hp full str).

-ATTENTION TO THIS - I would add a limit to how many times someone can be critted in a round (not necessary but it would make people stop crying a bit)

-and basically if no other fix is found and you simply don't want to remove tower bonuses...find a way to make tanks hit in attack...and preferably make them deal damage too...since you messed up everything with cortina (and union)


that's it for now...if you really need advice for balancing numbers and all that, i can put in some suggestions about the worlds i play.

good luck

 

[DeletedUser15368]

Were the changes implemented and tested in IFBC

Once the IFBC ended, there was a period of testing a new battle formula; you can read the feedback thread here

 

[Victor Kruger]

Incentives has me thinking

• items not special enough - everybody mocks
• items that have more - everybody complains about power creep
• random item drops - I wasn't around in 2008-2010, so I don't know the frequency of the random chest drops. Too few = complaints, too many = 6 months of battles and done. The 3rd key drop idea is the basis though - it's an item to get a part of a set, not the entire set or even the entire item, but it was very critical to get at one point.
• buffs - chars may or may not have enough already (spinach for the losing side would be good**)
• pride/alliance - the way some want it, the char beside you today will be shooting at you tomorrow. This takes away some of the 'edge' and then leads to apathy (shout out to Victor's comment - colorado battles and @Victor Kruger - if I associated your comment out of context, I'll remove with apologies)
  
  
• rewarding the battle leader - if it's automatic, welcome to the multi dig frenzy. There is already a 1 person town digging battles in a couple worlds. There would definitely need to be "number of players attending" and "number of rounds completed" in order to achieve the reward.
  
  
• lowering numbers - at some point, the entire strategy of attack or defense is entirely removed and it's just blah, flag rush.
  which is why this will eventually happen:

** then my thought about this - if there are rewards for losing, then there is no push to get better. Participation trophies all around.




Were the changes implemented and tested in IFBC, or just deployed to the game?

Some great points n observations Roland and just my two penny worth on your bullet points

1 Items not special enough - let people mock, cant please everyone so dont try. Chest item's can be sold or traded and we dont want it OP but rather jusrt a token gesture that at least makes going worthwhile. Or perhaps HP recharge OR Energy for those who die in attack only, since thats the side who near always loses n numbers hard to get to come. Its SOMETHING

2 Items that have more - Inno has made a rod for its own back, been saying it for years its a one way trip to disaster, just take time.. no solution but rejig the sets, compensate those who bought OP with a few thousand nuggets take the criticism and find other ways to keep players happy such as expanding forts, terrain, flexible styles of forts, buildings such adding in a fort bank etc etc.. ofc that will never happen.

3 Random Item drops. Steel chests seemed previously to satisfy most (maybe not now ) as random drops dead or alive, amount dependent on numbers attending each side. Eg every 10 attending 1 random chest drops, attackers get x2 more to encourage numbers once again to attend. can sell for $ Its SOMETHING

4 Buffs - See point 1, give too much and we know what happens so id rule out spinach but maybe random buffs including that sure.. its SOMETHING

5 Pride/Alliance - Your context was correct .. Players are the ones who have self imposed rules and sanitised things here regarding this point not inno. Cant force people to have wars and bring back the realism n buzz of organic battles compared to real ones unless people embrace everything bad too such as multis etc, sadly I have no answer other than new blood MUST enter the game .. period !.. we all know too many and sure im not the only one who has respect and familiarity for most long termers regardless of what side they be on.. hard to fake real battles, id say impossible tbh.. .. The truth is only lots of players and i do mean triple at least the number on Vegas would do that. 1.5k max active is pathetic and 20% attendance would/does barley fill a large with no shows etc.

6 Rewarding the battle leader - I never expected nor would expect a reward simply for doing what I enjoy anyway and always found self rewarding if the team did well, but i do admit the efforts involved especially what id call the serial battle leaders could or should from time to time get something. Simple solution.. a battle leader rank to allow us to move offies etc , rewarded either every x5 battles they lead OR when the team they lead decides it was worthy .. say 20 in large have to vote yes in the team before it triggered any reward 15 med 10 small. Again Its SOMETHING

7 Lowering numbers. - Personally im not a glory hunter so I like 5 v 8 as much as full large but then ive learned there are many ways to have fun in battles. If theres less then i see no reason if theres 10% of a full attending say 14 then everyones HP could be capped to suit when battle kicks off and number of rounds also reduced say to 20 rds if everyones hp are halved etc or 30 secs a rd not 1 min .. ( just very rough ideas dont slaughter me for it )

Perhaps attending rewards over time every 50 battles a SP is gained or an AP for 100 .. or winning x5 attacks ... winning x 20 defences etc that sort of thing.

Point is there is so much could be done and so little has been, and its not for lack of community input but rather lack of listening to and or implementing anything of note since forever.

 

[Caerdwyn]

-i would like to see a new battle map or whatever but that seems pretty much impossible so won't bother commenting on that

Awesomia should have a unique layout. Even something as simple as squeezing it so that it's long N/S and skinny E/W. Changing LOS through Gate and from building roofs will force people to think again.

 

[Goober Pyle]

Awesomia should have a unique layout. Even something as simple as squeezing it so that it's long N/S and skinny E/W. Changing LOS through Gate and from building roofs will force people to think again.

One thing I am considering is making Awesomia's tower levels pseudo-random (like one each will be level 1,2,3 or 4 and which one will be which will change after each fight)

 

[Caerdwyn]

One thing I am considering is making Awesomia's tower levels pseudo-random (like one each will be level 1,2,3 or 4 and which one will be which will change after each fight)

If you do that, can you also randomize the heights of the buildings and towers, at the same time? Finding the right LOS or getting out of the wrong LOS on a round by round basis is part of what makes FFing interesting. Standing still and shooting at the same person who is also standing still and shooting back at you for rounds on end is boring (even when you're hitting!).

 

[Goober Pyle]

Were the changes implemented and tested in IFBC, or just deployed to the game?

After the IFBC players who stuck around did some fights (mostly in the IFBC battle gear, but there was a little bit of adding in some ... other... gear but not cortina) with some proposed new tower stats (and the distance tweak as well I think).

It was not a very thorough test but it definitely established that it helped make defenses stronger against a ton of duelers in decent gear

 

[Goober Pyle]

After the IFBC players who stuck around did some fights (mostly in the IFBC battle gear, but there was a little bit of adding in some ... other... gear but not cortina) with some proposed new tower stats (and the distance tweak as well I think).

It was not a very thorough test but it definitely established that it helped make defenses stronger against a ton of duelers in decent gear

keep in mind this was at a time when union was king and almost every full fight was an attacker wiping out defense that had no choice but to cower inside and hope some advent got lucky at just the right times, while the IFBC was dominated by duelers on attack

 

[Goober Pyle]

If you do that, can you also randomize the heights of the buildings and towers, at the same time? Finding the right LOS or getting out of the wrong LOS on a round by round basis is part of what makes FFing interesting. Standing still and shooting at the same person who is also standing still and shooting back at you for rounds on end is boring (even when you're hitting!).

To the best of my knowledge building height is a function of level and not something the CM can change independently. That said, making the wall and gate level random as well would definitely mix up the LOS a bit

 

[Goober Pyle]

The other thing I _think_ we can add to Awesomia battles (though it'll be nontrivial for the CMs and fraught with potential frustrations over who gets the rank) is to log in as henrynpc and as some new NPC assigned to "New York" , have those NPCs join the battle and give a captain rank to some player already signed in.