Passed Changes to Dueler Advantages

Would you like to see this idea implemented into the game?

  • Yes

    Votes: 97 62.2%
  • No

    Votes: 59 37.8%

  • Total voters
    156
  • Poll closed .
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DeletedUser

It absolutely is a dueling skill. Any skill that directly affects the outcome of a duel is a dueling skill. I've won duels despite doing less damage and lost duels despite doing more. If the loser in either case had more hp, they would have won.

I really don't think this idea was ready for Development Discussions. There is way too much disagreement on what needs to be done.

No, Elmyr it is not. We are talking about actual dueling skills. Those that the game considers dueling skills. I also explained why Health Points can't be affected by this advantage. There is no way you can get a temporary increase of HP for the duel and lose them afterward.

And yes I don't think this idea should be voted on. The whole thread started because the class is useless and I expected the rest of the players to try and make a change. It's happening actually.
 

DeletedUser

No, Elmyr it is not. We are talking about actual dueling skills. Those that the game considers dueling skills. I also explained why Health Points can't be affected by this advantage. There is no way you can get a temporary increase of HP for the duel and lose them afterward.

I really don't care what the game considers a dueling skill. If it directly affects the outcome of a duel, it's a dueling skill. If you want to say the bonus doesn't apply, fine, but that doesn't change the fact that it's a dueling skill.
 

DeletedUser

Well you got my idea. We both know HP is crucial for duels, but I am talking about the advantage and that was all I wanted to explain. And the easiest way to explain it was to tell people to click on their "Duel" screen and see the skills in there which benefit from the bonus.
 

DeletedUser

I like the idea of dueler's appearances being boosted like soldier's tactics rather than the boost to equipment. Duelers are supposed to be attacking characters so make it accordingly. If it negates the soldier bonus, then that will be a reason for people to pick duelers. It will also give a balance to town demographics. Duelers would go out and hunt down other towns while soldiers can go out, but they're now more useful at defending forts and the like, which is what they would have done.

As it is now, soldiers can get a massive boost to their tactics in duels, which can throw the balance of a duel before it's even begun. A dueler, even with a 10% boost to equipment bonuses even withapremium account, as was said earlier, will give barely nothing as a boost and so soldier will still be the class of choice Purely because the tactics boost is massive. Mine at the moment would be a 15 boost to tactics in defence, and that's without a premium account. The best a dueler can hope for with equipment boosting is a 1-2 boost in one or two skills that may or may not be essential to dueling.

Make a clear choice for the offensive and defensive players,and give the option to cancel each other out so duels would be based more on skill at building up your character and setting your stances right. Put back the bonus to appearance ;)


Also as a sidenote, has it been discussed anywhere about character bonuses to fort battles being introduced?
 
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DeletedUser

If duelers get anything it should be a dodge bonus.

Also, I agree health isn't a duel skill. Unless you don't have enough, which is the only time it becomes an issue and you can get enough health from gear if you need it. Having been at Fort Battles with Roland Deschain & Phonebook on World 1 - they're the two top ranked duelists on that world - I'm pretty sure they have no skill points in that department.
 

DeletedUser

I like the idea of dueler's appearances being boosted like soldier's tactics rather than the boost to equipment. Duelers are supposed to be attacking characters so make it accordingly. If it negates the soldier bonus, then that will be a reason for people to pick duelers. It will also give a balance to town demographics. Duelers would go out and hunt down other towns while soldiers can go out, but they're now more useful at defending forts and the like, which is what they would have done.

Appearance is the worst suggestion. It negates the soldier's bonus and make duelers more likely to attack adventurer and workers to utilize their boost.
 

DeletedUser

Oi, just knock it off everyone.

Elmyr's got the point and others have got the point too. I personally think that the problem comes from the word "skill".

Elmyr mentioned it as a dueling skill because it's more about game's skills, where HP is considered one of 20 skills and it has some sort of effect on an outcome of a duel. When b00k and others claimed it is not because they see dueling skill as some sort of "ability".

Back to topic, I personally think 10% is not worth it either. But, really, I can't come up with any tweak either, seriously.
 

DeletedUser

Well you summed it up. I think when the Vote period starts I will vote Yes, just so it shows the developers that dueler class needs some tweaking. If they pick it up as a future change I am sure they will be able to think of some reasonable bonuses.
 

DeletedUser20372

The games fine,I have one of every class and they all are good in dueling.If you know where to assign your skills you will be a good fighter regardless.
 

DeletedUser

The games fine,I have one of every class and they all are good in dueling.If you know where to assign your skills you will be a good fighter regardless.

That does not mean that duelers should have worthless bonuses. Even a worker can get skilled for dueling and own those around him. However, every class has bonuses and duelers deserve theirs.

P.S. I am not even a dueler and still suggested the changes. Do you think my soldier will benefit in any way if duelers become more powerful due to advantages? No. But they should have equal bonuses.
 

DeletedUser

The dueller does not really need that much tweaking. A little bonus to a dueling stat would be nice but the problem is that soldiers are overpowered in duels. Those are the ones that should be tweaked, not the duellers.
 

DeletedUser

Again the soldier. This thread is not for it, so do not discuss it. If you have a suggestion the Ideas and Brainfarts are waiting. I have a Soldier and I fight mostly against Soldier, since almost all of the people in W11 know that if they want to duel they have to pick the Soldier class instead of Dueler.

Anyway I have never thought that a soldier will be any different than a dueler. It's just another person I am going to fight against.
 

DeletedUser

I have already mentioned the ideas for tweaking the soldier in another thread in the ideas and brainfarths section of the forum. Since new ideas are not to be discussed here i did not go into detail. Just pointed out that changing the soldier will be a better way than changing the dueller.

Conclusion is i vote against this changes. The only change that woukld make any diffrence would be the 10% anyway. But the soldier would still be a better choiche for duelling amkiing it a bit pointless as the dueller really should be the best duellers.
 
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DeletedUser

No, why would be it? I am a Soldier myself and in no way would I want my bonuses negated. I just see that duelers are useless as a class, adventurers and workers are a much better pick for dueling, if you have to choose between those 3.
 

DeletedUser

I read through as much of this thread as possible and I agree with Elmyr that Health points are a duel skill or should I say can make the difference between winning and losing. And so put this forward these possible proposals. What about a bonus to health regain for duelers??? Or a initial set heath bonus of 100hp Or extra 10% hp...... This would also allow them to fare better against soldiers without negating their bonus..
 

DeletedUser

The motivation for dueling raises faster. It is increased 40% faster.
Duelers still receive their motivation faster, but at 40%. Now this makes a difference. Paired up with premium, that's 18 motivation points a day. People who are not interested in 0 motivation dueling, will have more duels every day.

Why should a duelers motivation rise faster then anyone else that has a bonus in that?

I'm a worker and I pay for premium and my motivation only rises by 20% when building in town. If the duelers is going to rise then the rest of the classes should also rise.
 

DeletedUser

If you negate the soldiers defense advantage, then ponder a moment why we chose to become soldiers in the first place. You will need to redress that because an advantage to the dueler by way of change should NOT become a disadvantage to the soldier at the same time.

If you give the dueler this change you should not do it without redressing other classes that you are affecting by that change. Like, give the soldier a defense advantage through bonus to his defensive clothing, so that balance is maintained.

Unless of course you really do want a huge increase in duelers running amok with their new found advantages, and thus unbalance all the other things that are going on in the world.

Change is a bad thing if you don't cover every unintended outcome. If you do cover them all, then change can be good.
 

DeletedUser

The reason I suggested re-thinking about the appearance bonus is that soldiers are too powerful in defence with the tactics boost. Think logically. Duelers should be the best people in the game at dueling. Why else would you call yourself a dueler. Did people in the wild west go, 'I could intimidate people by looking like a badass and shoot them while they're running scared, but no, I'm not going to because it would be unfair to them'?

In three worlds I play as two soldiers and a worker. I didn't even think about dueler as a class choice. If the changes in the op go ahead, I still wouldn't think about it. Duelers are ATTACKING players. They should have an ATTACKING bonus. If soldiers don't like that because their defensive bonus then gets negated, tough and I'm saying this as a soldier. How many soldiers do you come up against and take into consideration their tactics bonus when thinking about who to duel? What can duelers do against this tactics bonus currently? Nothing. It's unfair to them. Unless they put everything into appearance, they will automatically start off hindered in any duel they start.

Each class is built for a reason. Worker class to build a town up, adventurer class to go questing and make money through the items they find, soldier class to defend anything to the last with their high tactics and hp bonuses, dueler class apparently to ride around quickly on the map and be able to get a couple extra $$ when winning a duel. Changes need to be made to make the dueler into what it is meant to be, and not changes that give a small boost to clothes bonuses that still put the dueler at a disadvantage when coming up against a soldier.

As for the people complaining that if they change the dueler bonuses to something else then they should change the other character classes to compensate, you're missing the whole point of this. This is trying to redress the problem that dueler class bonuses are weak compared to everyone else.

  • You complain that appearance bonus will negate the soldier bonus and more people will duel you?
This is The West. Expect to get shot and don't complain that you would lose more times than before
  • You complain that the increase in dueler's motivation for dueling is unfair and the other classes should have an increase in duel motivation too?
You really don't get the point of CLASS SPECIFIC BONUSES. You're a worker. You get motivation boost for construction, ok, that's unfair, I want the same for my soldier. It doesn't work like that.

  • You complain that negating the soldiers bonus defeats the purpose of picking the soldier in the first place?
Why didn't you pick the dueler? Because of the rubbish bonuses I bet. You picked the soldier so that when you're dueled by someone you automatically can sit behind a 50%, 100% with premium, tactics boost. DUELERS running amok with new found advantages in DUELING? Right now, the game is full of soldiers running amok with their established bonuses. Yes the soldier class and the dueler class are both meant for fighting, but they're meant for different styles of fighting.

The other thing that this would bring is this. Everytime your town gets camped, 9 times out of 10 it will be by a soldier, the majority of those times by a melee soldier who has a high hp. When you go and try and duel them to get rid of them from your town, not only is it hard to ko them because of their high hp, but also because of the tactics bonus meaning they can brush off any attack and run to your hotel. Imagine sending a dueler with an appearance bonus. The soldier's tactics boost is gone, the chances to ko are higher and the higher the chances that you won't have someone ducking in and out of your hotel for 2 weeks that you can't hit and when you do, you barey scratch.

If people complain that duelers will become all powerful, bring fort bonuses into the fray. Soldiers get a boost while attacking or defending the fort as would be expected. Duelers get a boost to how much ground they can cover and can run to behind that wall in one turn that would take a soldier two turns to get to and get shot in the meantime. Workers can build a temporary barrier for cover. Adventurers can adventure (someone else can think of an adventure bonus in fort battles :razz:).

Change is a good thing. Each class should be unique to each other and set out so that people know what they're picking. Duelers right now probably pick it without reading fully the bonuses and expect them to be the best at dueling. Make it so that's true and I might even pick to be one and so might other people.
 
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