DeletedUser
a fetus isn't a person untill it is smart enough to know it wants to live (in my opinion) tumors might have human DNA, but there not people.
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DeletedUser
If death is defined as the end of heart beats or brain waves, wouldn't it be logical to state that the beginning of life is the start of brain waves or heart beat? Both can be detected in a fetus.
Oh, and 'fetus' is Latin, meaning 'small baby.'
Oh, and 'fetus' is Latin, meaning 'small baby.'
DeletedUser
but at what age does the heart and brain develope in the womb?
DeletedUser
I am a humanitarian and I'm against abortion. Let me get this straight, its not their fault that they came to existence in this world.
By aborting the unborn, you may be killing future world leaders, future politicians, scientists, future Da Vincis, of future Einsteins.
For people who wants to see the consequences of abortion, I think you better see the videos this Youtube link about abortion entitled, The Silent Scream. Hopefully this would make you rethink your conscience.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THS2zZ4m260
By aborting the unborn, you may be killing future world leaders, future politicians, scientists, future Da Vincis, of future Einsteins.
For people who wants to see the consequences of abortion, I think you better see the videos this Youtube link about abortion entitled, The Silent Scream. Hopefully this would make you rethink your conscience.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THS2zZ4m260
DeletedUser
DeletedUser14029
Point is, you don't know who you're killing. Better off not taking chances.
Deleted User - 819397
The same could go for up to 2 year olds. We can't kill them, can we? Like I said earlier, the only time it should be accepted is if the fetus will kill the mother, (fallopian pregnancy, etc.)
DeletedUser
Yes, you don't know who is being taken down but you are still killing and killing is the work of Hitlers.
Watch the videos on the link I posted and see that the fetus is somehow aware of it being in danger. See how gruesome it is and test your conscience for the innocent.....
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DeletedUser
CORRECTION: You could be killing the future world leaders, future politicians, scientists, future Adolf Hitlers, or future Mengeles.
I changed my mind. Abortion totally sounds cool
I do believe we are all born tainted, or atleast that was all I heard the preacher say as I slowly suffered through life with a gradually increasing loss of hope. God I sound like I am becoming a sick twisted mixture of Awesome Adelei and a sickly emo kid... :sad:
I AM AWESOMEMO!!!
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DeletedUser
In my country it isn't.
DeletedUser
Who cares? If you could determine before the baby was born that he wasn't as smart as Einstein or DaVinci, would you then say its ok to have the abortion? Potential of their intelligence has nothing to do with abortion.
Some statistics show the opposite. Babies who are unwanted by their parents or born to a teenage mother are very likely to be
criminals later on.
Read a good book called "Freakonomics" where the author states that there is a direct correlation with abortion rates and decreases in crime in the following 15-20 years. The example is Roe V. Wade which was obviously a landmark case and he claims that this caused a drastic drop in crime 20 years later. He backs this up by some statistics which are, at least interesting if you don't want to believe them all.
Also "conscience" has nothing to do most arguments here unless you are trying to put a religion spin on it. And what does "humanitarian" mean in this case? Is that your actual profession? I am a bit confused.
Finally, here is a hypothetical:
Let's say in country "A" it is 100% illegal to have an abortion. No exceptions. The only way to get an abortion is to have it done illegally by a doctor who takes money under the table. A woman in country "A" gets an abortion, and the authorities find out about it, arrest her, prosecute her for murder and she gets 8 years in prison.
What if the same woman DOESN'T have an abortion, but is not very healthy. She smokes a little, drinks on occasion, and she eats fast food regularly. She also abuses prescription pills when she is sick (sounds like the average person to me). Let's say although it is not her INTENTION, she is damaging the fetus through neglect and ends up having a miscarriage. Should she be arrested for negligence and given a lesser penalty such as 6 months in prison? The end result is the same. The mother is at fault for the death of the fetus (which could have been Einstein). Is she responsible even if there is no intent (hence the negligence charges instead of murder)?
DeletedUser
It is still killing and its still a crime. So you mean you would just tolerate murder??? Even we don't know what these babies will do if they live, the statistics would say that they would probably do what normal people like you and me do. It is bad to misjudge them cause they haven't been born yet. It is wrong to streotype them to others. Everyone is unique and different to everybody else in this world so its wrong to streotype. Do not judge a book by its cover. Give everybody a chance to live just as we are allowed to live by "our" parents.
Again I say, look at the Youtube link I posted and you'll get what I meant by abortion being inhumane and savage. You would thank your parents for not letting that happen to you.
No you didnt. You were pro-abortion from the beginning since you were the first to reply to this thread and say that you will have more space in this world because of it. You are probably a man just like most of us so you don't understand the effects of abortion in the level that women do.CORRECTION: You could be killing the future world leaders, future politicians, scientists, future Adolf Hitlers, or future Mengeles.
I changed my mind. Abortion totally sounds cool
You also edited my post and replaced Da Vinci and Einstein with Hitler. I think, if anyone perpetuates murder, they show the qualities of Hitler. Hitler has grown in a place where he had LACKED LOVE so he bacame a monster. If you give a child love, he will grow in love and become an opposite of Hitler.
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DeletedUser
I would tolerate abortion just like I tolerate capital punishment. Just like I tolerate justifiable military action. Just like I tolerate an individuals right to self-defense with a gun. Just like I tolerate police using deadly force. All of those are technically murder, however I tolerate them with out liking them or participating myself. So I guess the short answer is YES. I tolerate murder.
Well I cited my reference, the book "Freakonomics," so I'd like to see you back up this claim. Sounds like wishful thinking.
It is not my ability, responsibility, or desire to "give" everyone a chance to live. Why are you putting this on ME?
I am not stereotyping anyone. Try reading the whole thread before you jump on 1 post out of 12 that I have made.
ME being born rather than aborted is not even closely related to the issue we are discussing. Stick to an intelligent discussion or just don't get involved with this thread.
Please define the term "inhumane" because I happen to think we are the most savage animals to ever roam the face of the planet. I disagree with the idea that some how human beings should act a certain way against their nature just because there are hyper-sensitive people among us.
Also I'm not watching the youtube link because you haven't given me a good reason to even consider changing my point of view. I have to say that I feel like you are trying very hard to keep your religious beliefs out of this discussion, which I truly appreciate. However I see you dodging the arguments I have made on this thread so please address those before you start twisting my words or my intentions.
DeletedUser
This is what I thought you might have done a little stereotyping.
My definition of inhumane is any work done by a human being to another human being that is indescribably cruel like if they don't threat them as humans as well just like what is on the videos on Youtube which I posted.
If you don't watch the videos, fine, be it. But my point of being inhumane can be shown in there. I was trying to maybe give you an insight of how this is truly done and from that I may give you my point.
And yes, I was trying to keep religious beliefs out of the discussion cause that would cause more issues and make more heated debates that would set as apart even further and might result to infractions to some of us.
I can't see why you think I was dodging your arguments??? And please, I do not twist your words or intentions. If you think I offended you in any way, I ask a humble apology. I try to be inoffensive now unlike what I used to be.
DeletedUser
The argument is not that abortion is cruel. I think most people would agree that it is. I think its a terrible thing. My position is that it should not be illegal.
So far here is your argument:
1) Abortion is murder
2) Murder is cruelty
3) Cruelty is wrong
Is that it in a nutshell? If the answer is yes then I respect your position totally, but it would be made more clear if you didn't include things in your post that had nothing to do with your central argument. And also just because I respect it doesn't mean that I think its a sound argument.
You dodged my points about women' right to privacy, abortion not being a crime, my question about what it means to be a humanitarian, and also my hypothetical about miscarriages being a crime. You didn't offend me at all, I just ask for more clarification b/c its difficult to know what everyone means on these postings. You certainly were not offensive.
So far here is your argument:
1) Abortion is murder
2) Murder is cruelty
3) Cruelty is wrong
Is that it in a nutshell? If the answer is yes then I respect your position totally, but it would be made more clear if you didn't include things in your post that had nothing to do with your central argument. And also just because I respect it doesn't mean that I think its a sound argument.
You dodged my points about women' right to privacy, abortion not being a crime, my question about what it means to be a humanitarian, and also my hypothetical about miscarriages being a crime. You didn't offend me at all, I just ask for more clarification b/c its difficult to know what everyone means on these postings. You certainly were not offensive.
DeletedUser
What I am trying to do is a standout opinion on why I think abortion in not good. I was hoping that people would see the videos and from then, they can weigh the odds of what they are saying. Most if not all of us are NOT medical professionals here, so I am also trying is to show the cons on abortion that I know in contrary to the many pros that the other were saying. I have found little support for my side here so far.
In terms of women's privacy, like what said earlier, its still murder and has medical drawbacks in the end. I believe that UNINTENTIONAL miscarriages are NOT crimes. If it was the result of a health condition, the mother can't be blamed but if it was because of drugs and such things, it is recklessness or even selfishness although it is their choice.
Being a humanitarian, in my view is defending the rights of any underprivileged people (including fetuses) in any way. I hope I have cleared most if not all of your questions there that you think I have missed.
In terms of women's privacy, like what said earlier, its still murder and has medical drawbacks in the end. I believe that UNINTENTIONAL miscarriages are NOT crimes. If it was the result of a health condition, the mother can't be blamed but if it was because of drugs and such things, it is recklessness or even selfishness although it is their choice.
Being a humanitarian, in my view is defending the rights of any underprivileged people (including fetuses) in any way. I hope I have cleared most if not all of your questions there that you think I have missed.
DeletedUser
If someone really wants to have an abortion then there going to have one, even if its not legal, there is allot of nasty ways I've heard of people trying to terminate their pregnancy. I think its better to have sanitary, safe facilities these people can go to instead of having them resort to crude and dangerous home procedures they might attempt.
DeletedUser14029
people resorting to illegal methods of pregnancy-termination can have my sympathy...
but making it legal, to make it safe and convenient is just WRONG.
why don't all countries start legalising drugs so to keep the dopers (if that's how they're called) off the streets, blah blah blah. I know a few countries did that already, I didn't bother to memorise their names, because in the future they will make it to the front pages of countries owned by drugs anyway - I will prefer complete persecution. Like China, my dear motherland. Of all things (yes I know, I have looked into the political system and of the CCP when I had my spare time, they're sometimes faulty), drug is not at all acceptable in my country. That's why drug is a very dangerous business in China - 50grams = Death Warrant. That's how people drop the habit.
A crime gets out of hand when you legalise it, you make it convenient, and then chaos follows. Look at the Americans. They hold firearms. Their arguments are that since the bad guys got guns, good guys should get guns to protect themselves as well (oh I saw that on TV enough of times...) They didn't realise they're selling guns to the bad guys in the first place >.<
my whole point is that we cannot make something safer for them because they're endangering their lives for whatever stupid reasons. A life is a life. If they just won't think it through and still resort to dangerous operations, their choice. You don't legalise suicide attempts and make it more comfortable for the person(s) involved, do you!?
Note: When I said 'You don't know who you're killing, best not taking any chances', I meant that we should NOT have an abortion at most of the times >.< Please don't get me wrong
but making it legal, to make it safe and convenient is just WRONG.
why don't all countries start legalising drugs so to keep the dopers (if that's how they're called) off the streets, blah blah blah. I know a few countries did that already, I didn't bother to memorise their names, because in the future they will make it to the front pages of countries owned by drugs anyway - I will prefer complete persecution. Like China, my dear motherland. Of all things (yes I know, I have looked into the political system and of the CCP when I had my spare time, they're sometimes faulty), drug is not at all acceptable in my country. That's why drug is a very dangerous business in China - 50grams = Death Warrant. That's how people drop the habit.
A crime gets out of hand when you legalise it, you make it convenient, and then chaos follows. Look at the Americans. They hold firearms. Their arguments are that since the bad guys got guns, good guys should get guns to protect themselves as well (oh I saw that on TV enough of times...) They didn't realise they're selling guns to the bad guys in the first place >.<
my whole point is that we cannot make something safer for them because they're endangering their lives for whatever stupid reasons. A life is a life. If they just won't think it through and still resort to dangerous operations, their choice. You don't legalise suicide attempts and make it more comfortable for the person(s) involved, do you!?
Note: When I said 'You don't know who you're killing, best not taking any chances', I meant that we should NOT have an abortion at most of the times >.< Please don't get me wrong
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DeletedUser8950
Can't be bothered to read through all of this, but here's a question (idk if it's been covered, but from what I've seen so far, it hasn't):
What if a woman is pregnant through rape? How does abortion apply then?
What if a woman is pregnant through rape? How does abortion apply then?
DeletedUser14029
that's why you should read through the thread
and also I have specified that in most cases abortion is not even remotely an option.
however, if conceived through rape, the child is discovered to have severe defects (Down Syndrome, etc) or a few rare cases, the pregnant woman will be assessed by a team of doctors on the case to see if Abortion is applicable.
here in Hong Kong (note, once again, I must state political system in Hong Kong and many things are vastly different from that of mainland China's, because we're HKSAR - Hong Kong Special Administrative Governemnt), Abortion is officially banned, except for the above examples I have stated. Some parents I heard will even bear the consequences and give birth to a child with the most severe degree of Down Syndrome (IQ at the age of 6), those earn my thumbs up for all ages :'(
and also I have specified that in most cases abortion is not even remotely an option.
however, if conceived through rape, the child is discovered to have severe defects (Down Syndrome, etc) or a few rare cases, the pregnant woman will be assessed by a team of doctors on the case to see if Abortion is applicable.
here in Hong Kong (note, once again, I must state political system in Hong Kong and many things are vastly different from that of mainland China's, because we're HKSAR - Hong Kong Special Administrative Governemnt
), Abortion is officially banned, except for the above examples I have stated. Some parents I heard will even bear the consequences and give birth to a child with the most severe degree of Down Syndrome (IQ at the age of 6), those earn my thumbs up for all ages :'(- Status