Abortion

[DeletedUser]

Not even remotely the same thing. A baby could conceivably survive on it's own. It's physically capable of doing so, just not mentally. A parasite cannot survive physically without a host. Like it or not, a fetus could very easily be defined as a parasite.

:nowink:

Right, all human babies are born able to get their own food, shelter, clothing to keep them warm, and stop wild animals from eating them alive......... Wherever u r "conceiving" this is not reality. Hopefully, u still have a parent who keeps u outta the street, cuz ur brain ain't showing in this post!

Didn't you ever see Jungle Book?

 

[DeletedUser]

Read a good book called "Freakonomics" where the author states that there is a direct correlation with abortion rates and decreases in crime in the following 15-20 years. The example is Roe V. Wade which was obviously a landmark case and he claims that this caused a drastic drop in crime 20 years later. He backs this up by some statistics which are, at least interesting if you don't want to believe them all.

I've read it and always assumed Levitt and Dubner were being facetious and intentional committing a post hoc ergo propter hoc, of which this is a textbook example.

That doesn't mean I'm anti-choice though. Even if a fetus is a human life, which it absolutely is not - the soul is a ridiculous myth and a fetus is not yet a conscious human being - anything that there are almost 7 billion of is not precious.

Right, all human babies are born able to get their own food, shelter, clothing to keep them warm, and stop wild animals from eating them alive......... Wherever u r "conceiving" this is not reality. Hopefully, u still have a parent who keeps u outta the street, cuz ur brain ain't showing in this post!

You didn't even try to refute my parasite argument because you can't.

 

[DeletedUser]

Hmmm interesting. Here is my take on this subject.

Abortion is not a bad thing. If say, a couple of teenagers got a little ahead in the relationship, and the girl became pregnant, I ultimately would give the choice to her if I was the boyfriend. I am the boyfriend, and though I impregnated her, she is the one carrying the child. I have little to no empathy or compassion for many things. An unborn child I did not want is something I care very little about. If the girl decides to get an abortion, I would let her do that. If she wants to have the child, as the father, I would be there for and my future child. I don't care whether I wanted the kid or not, if the girl wants the child and I'm the father, I WILL be there for her. Why? Ehhh that is an answer to a question I don't even know.

Anyways, abortion is not a bad choice. It is a shade of grey, neither good or bad. Any choice can be good or bad. Choosing to bomb a city can be seen as bad by some, and good by others. It's just a matter of choice whether or not you think it's a good or bad choice. It's all up to the person who chooses. And I'm one of those people who don't really care about things like these. Abortion is just a way to save yourself from a million headaches, a messed up life, and a huge loss of your money that you have to spend on the ungrateful brats. Unless you want that, then abortion is the way to go.

 

[DeletedUser]

Still, when you kill a fetus you may be literally killing the future of the world. The fetus that you kill might of have one day ended up being the next great president, a lifesaving doctor, a highly regarded scientist, the best athlete on your favorite sports team, or another leader of the future.

When you kill the fetus/baby, all that potential is just wiped away. You might of have just killed the baby that might of one day grew up to find a cure for cancer, or the scientist destined to find the next great alternative fuel source. It just seems wrong to wipe away all that potential and hope.

 

[DeletedUser]

No you didnt. You were pro-abortion from the beginning since you were the first to reply to this thread and say that you will have more space in this world because of it. You are probably a man just like most of us so you don't understand the effects of abortion in the level that women do.

You also edited my post and replaced Da Vinci and Einstein with Hitler. I think, if anyone perpetuates murder, they show the qualities of Hitler. Hitler has grown in a place where he had LACKED LOVE so he bacame a monster. If you give a child love, he will grow in love and become an opposite of Hitler.

Actually, when I joined this forum a year ago, I was a pure right-wing evangelical christian, much like you. To my dismay, I learned that most of the liberals, athiests, ect. had great points, and I grew more and more opposing to the old preferences I once preffered. Yeah... Anyways, I GREW UP. (Oddly enough it was because of people who at the time I considered evil and anti-god anti-american ect.) But I have learned alot of things from the forum, and you know what, people that shell out millions to an "Icon" like Lady Gaga or a "movie" like Avatar are just plain idiotic. Not saying all are, just a new-majority.

As for abortion, I wouldn't do it, which is a point you didn't read me posting, but Abortion should be completely legal world wide. We are overpopulated enough as it is and weighed down by babies born to unprepared mothers who had a heavy sex-drive.

 

[DeletedUser]

I've read it and always assumed Levitt and Dubner were being facetious and intentional committing a post hoc ergo propter hoc, of which this is a textbook example.

I thought it was clear that they were taking the side that not only is there a correlation between the two, but there is a VERY strong correlation. I've never read their blogs so I don't know how they really feel about it. I just enjoyed the book.

That doesn't mean I'm anti-choice though. Even if a fetus is a human life, which it absolutely is not - the soul is a ridiculous myth and a fetus is not yet a conscious human being - anything that there are almost 7 billion of is not precious.

Even if the fetus was human life, it is clearly not a "born citizen," so it does not have rights. I think arguing that a fetus is living/non-living takes too much energy. Just say "ok it is alive...but is not born yet so it has no legal rights." Then the next thing you hear is "I don't care... its just wrong!"

You didn't even try to refute my parasite argument because you can't.

I wrote a paper when I was a Sophmore in college that threw this idea out there. I got a "C" on the paper. I don't think anyone likes to hear this. Somehow you can't put "parasite" and "baby" in the same sentence with out creating an uproar.

 

[DeletedUser]

Actually, when I joined this forum a year ago, I was a pure right-wing evangelical christian, much like you.

I am Roman Catholic to be exact. But let us not include religious debates here please.....

As for abortion, I wouldn't do it, which is a point you didn't read me posting, but Abortion should be completely legal world wide. We are overpopulated enough as it is and weighed down by babies born to unprepared mothers who had a heavy sex-drive.

If you won't do it, why do you support it to be legal worldwide??? And you did not answer my argument why you quoted my post and replaced Da Vinci and Einstein with Hitler.We need to think positive cause if we think all negative about something, then nothing positive comes into mind. I have not even seen a direct answer from any of you about my sentiment, "abortion is still murder and murder is still wrong".

Also abortion increases the risk of a woman being sterile. If we had a significant number of women being sterile, the world will have problems about building the next generation. This is another one of my consent why I am against abortion. Chances are most if not all of you have not even watched the videos on Youtube I posted and see how this is done.


Technically, babies being conceived are not at fault for their existence. Whose fault was it to have unprotected sex anyway??? They should have worn some protection at least. Then it happens, then they will just get rid of it like if it was not a human at all. How would this people justify what their own parents have done for them? Their parents let them live and this is what they are gonna do to the next generation.

I personally wouldnt support the atheists nor go too liberal. I personally think that many parts of the world right now are being too liberal on things. I think too much liberalism is wrong, it would lead to a unlawful society. Too much use of freedom is wrong and that includes perpetuated murder for the innocent and the unborn.

Still, when you kill a fetus you may be literally killing the future of the world. The fetus that you kill might of have one day ended up being the next great president, a lifesaving doctor, a highly regarded scientist, the best athlete on your favorite sports team, or another leader of the future.

When you kill the fetus/baby, all that potential is just wiped away. You might of have just killed the baby that might of one day grew up to find a cure for cancer, or the scientist destined to find the next great alternative fuel source. It just seems wrong to wipe away all that potential and hope.

I agree with this one. We should save the underprivileged.

people resorting to illegal methods of pregnancy-termination can have my sympathy...
but making it legal, to make it safe and convenient is just WRONG.

why don't all countries start legalising drugs so to keep the dopers (if that's how they're called) off the streets, blah blah blah. I know a few countries did that already, I didn't bother to memorise their names, because in the future they will make it to the front pages of countries owned by drugs anyway - I will prefer complete persecution. Like China, my dear motherland. Of all things (yes I know, I have looked into the political system and of the CCP when I had my spare time, they're sometimes faulty), drug is not at all acceptable in my country. That's why drug is a very dangerous business in China - 50grams = Death Warrant. That's how people drop the habit.

A crime gets out of hand when you legalise it, you make it convenient, and then chaos follows. Look at the Americans. They hold firearms. Their arguments are that since the bad guys got guns, good guys should get guns to protect themselves as well (oh I saw that on TV enough of times...) They didn't realise they're selling guns to the bad guys in the first place >.<

my whole point is that we cannot make something safer for them because they're endangering their lives for whatever stupid reasons. A life is a life. If they just won't think it through and still resort to dangerous operations, their choice. You don't legalise suicide attempts and make it more comfortable for the person(s) involved, do you!?

You have some good points but try not to be anti-American. It might cause a more heated debate.

 

[DeletedUser]

I'm bored so I'll repeat myself from the last abortion thread.

My partner had an abortion just over 2 years ago. We talked about it and decided that at that time we were not able, (mentally and financially) to raise a child. We were taking precautions (partner on the pill) yet she still conceived.

It was one of the hardest decisions that we have ever had to make, and before anyone (especially thepro) throws it into my face that it doesn't affect me as a man, then I will tell you you are so so wrong. It is my child as well.

The decision was made since we felt it better to not raise a child in a situation where we could not provide for them, in fact given the costs associated with my 4 month old son then having a baby back then would have seen us evicted from our house we were that close to the breadline.

Is it wrong that we chose to do this? Is it wrong that we chose not to bring a child into a life of suffering and misery?

One other question for you supporting the abolition of abortion, when exactly does it become a person? why at that point, why not before?

 

[DeletedUser]

I'm bored so I'll repeat myself from the last abortion thread.

My partner had an abortion just over 2 years ago. We talked about it and decided that at that time we were not able, (mentally and financially) to raise a child. We were taking precautions (partner on the pill) yet she still conceived.

In my opinion this is RESPONSIBLE adult decision making. While I am not going to applaud the actual abortion, I have to commend you on the thought process that went into your decision. Had you been unlucky enough to live some place else, you may not have had that option.

I think its wrong to bring a child into the world when 1) you can't even use birth control properly 2) You are addicted to an online wild west game that has no purpose or clear goal :razz:

 

[DeletedUser]

I'm bored so I'll repeat myself from the last abortion thread.

My partner had an abortion just over 2 years ago. We talked about it and decided that at that time we were not able, (mentally and financially) to raise a child. We were taking precautions (partner on the pill) yet she still conceived.

It was one of the hardest decisions that we have ever had to make, and before anyone (especially thepro) throws it into my face that it doesn't affect me as a man, then I will tell you you are so so wrong. It is my child as well.

The decision was made since we felt it better to not raise a child in a situation where we could not provide for them, in fact given the costs associated with my 4 month old son then having a baby back then would have seen us evicted from our house we were that close to the breadline.

Is it wrong that we chose to do this? Is it wrong that we chose not to bring a child into a life of suffering and misery?

One other question for you supporting the abolition of abortion, when exactly does it become a person? why at that point, why not before?

thats heavy dude. Most people forget about the fact that contraception is only a certain percent effective when their talking about abortion, people can be as responsible as possible but it can still happen.

 

[DeletedUser]

Short and simple, Mothers who get an abortion should be killed by leathal injection, if you can't put up with pain for however many months it would take for this child to be born, you don't deserve to live, and I don't give a damn if you were raped, you got a child now, did your mother get a freakin abortion on you? I don't think so I don't care what may be wrong with the child or if you have a chance of dieing, I remember my grandmother had about 11 kids, the doctors told her four times she had a chance of dieing, she never died, they told her one of her kids were going to be born with mental problems, he still was born,I'm sick of thease teenage sluts getting knocked up and killing what could be an amazing person, and what will make an impact on this world in it's own way.

 

[DeletedUser14029]

your language is a bit strong, but I must agree with you to a certain extent. For Raped Cases and Severely Handicapped Babies, I must say I can UNDERSTAND what the mothers think. But not for any other cases. . . Teenagers that sleep with everybody should bear the consequences, whether they like it or not

 

[DeletedUser]

Right, so kill the mother. There goes "right to life" hypocrisy.

 

[DeletedUser14029]

I believe you meant 'right to live'? or is that a reference to another thread

and what do you mean by 'so kill the mother'?!

 

[DeletedUser]

Short and simple, Mothers who get an abortion should be killed by leathal injection, if you can't put up with pain for however many months it would take for this child to be born, you don't deserve to live, and I don't give a damn if you were raped, you got a child now, did your mother get a freakin abortion on you? I don't think so I don't care what may be wrong with the child or if you have a chance of dieing, I remember my grandmother had about 11 kids, the doctors told her four times she had a chance of dieing, she never died, they told her one of her kids were going to be born with mental problems, he still was born,I'm sick of thease teenage sluts getting knocked up and killing what could be an amazing person, and what will make an impact on this world in it's own way.

So you're all for murder in some ways but not in what you consider other ways?

The pain of pregnancy and childbirth is not the reason people get an abortion it's the 18-25 years of responsibility, mentally, financially, physically. Some people cannot handle that and therefore imo it is better that the baby is not born into a life of neglect and abuse.

 

[DeletedUser14029]

Born into a poor family doesn't necessarily mean neglect and abuse . . .

and I must point out that legalising Abortion won't necessarily stop people from being casual about messy sexual relationships, rather encouraging it. Reasons I will not repeat for the nth time.

For poor financial basis, well, isn't there subsidies from the Government, or am I mistaken about where-you-live's social welfare system?

 

[DeletedUser]

Short and simple, Mothers who get an abortion should be killed by leathal injection, if you can't put up with pain for however many months it would take for this child to be born, you don't deserve to live, and I don't give a damn if you were raped, you got a child now, did your mother get a freakin abortion on you? I don't think so I don't care what may be wrong with the child or if you have a chance of dieing, I remember my grandmother had about 11 kids, the doctors told her four times she had a chance of dieing, she never died, they told her one of her kids were going to be born with mental problems, he still was born,I'm sick of thease teenage sluts getting knocked up and killing what could be an amazing person, and what will make an impact on this world in it's own way.

This CAN'T be a serious post.

 

[DeletedUser]

For poor financial basis, well, isn't there subsidies from the Government, or am I mistaken about where-you-live's social welfare system?

Why do you think SOCIAL WELFARE is a good thing? You were talking about "responsibility" earlier in the thread and now you are saying its ok to be irresponsible because someone else will take your burden? Does anyone see the hypocrisy here or am I just out of my mind?

 

[DeletedUser14029]

let's say this:
You're RESPONSIBLE for your fetus/baby

You're also supposed to be Socially Responsible.

But if it comes to choosing abortion because of financial problems, S.R. and therefore your pride will have to take a back seat. again apologies I should have made this clearer >.<

 

[DeletedUser]

So how does social welfare help a 16 year old mother who has no job? Obviously there is money involved...money which the mother did not earn and comes from other people.