DeletedUser22575
wasn't a strawmans argument..and was on topic..
wasn't a strawmans argument..and was on topic..
DeletedUser
Agreed, Tuttle did not pose a strawman fallacy. Spider, please look up Strawman fallacy, as your understanding of it is incorrect.
Anyway, just to flesh out my query earlier, "meaningless" is not something an unqualified person can determine. A woman wants an abortion, you or I may look at her and say she's fine, but we lack medical/psychological educational background/expertise. The woman could have a medical issue that we're not aware of, or a psychological hardship imposed by the circumstances. Therefore, we could sit here and say, "low socio-economic girls/women are using terminations as a form of contraception" but that is actually a superficial examination of these issues. We simply do not have all the information to give an educated determination, and looking at a report stating there is a higher propensity for women of low socio-economic state to have abortions does not automatically translate to "using it as a form of contraception." Being in a low socio-economic state already indicates there is a rather large likelihood these women are dealing with physical and/or psychological hardships.
It's important not to make snap judgments (stereotypes, profiling) of people merely because of their socio-economic status.
Anyway, just to flesh out my query earlier, "meaningless" is not something an unqualified person can determine. A woman wants an abortion, you or I may look at her and say she's fine, but we lack medical/psychological educational background/expertise. The woman could have a medical issue that we're not aware of, or a psychological hardship imposed by the circumstances. Therefore, we could sit here and say, "low socio-economic girls/women are using terminations as a form of contraception" but that is actually a superficial examination of these issues. We simply do not have all the information to give an educated determination, and looking at a report stating there is a higher propensity for women of low socio-economic state to have abortions does not automatically translate to "using it as a form of contraception." Being in a low socio-economic state already indicates there is a rather large likelihood these women are dealing with physical and/or psychological hardships.
It's important not to make snap judgments (stereotypes, profiling) of people merely because of their socio-economic status.
DeletedUser
Actually I beg to differ when we see a woman coming into our service 5-6 x in one year for a termination and they decline any form of contraceptive device or product then i think it is a pretty reasonable assumption to make that they utilise terminations as a form of contraception
DeletedUser
Then there is something wrong with this particular individual.
Anecdotal evidence does not a thoery make.
DeletedUser
So john Rose you work in the health sector do you so you know that this is purely anecdotal evidence would you like to have a look at the recent stats and then comment
Also please note that WOMEN = plural aka more than one WOMAN means individual
Also please note that WOMEN = plural aka more than one WOMAN means individual
DeletedUser
Then present the statistics instead of arguments the equalent of "some guy on the internet told me".
You provided naught but anecdotal evidence.
Please take not of your own grammar policing:
I have a hard time to see how that is plural, and supposedly you already know better so I shan't lecture you. /snicker
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DeletedUser
Sounds pretty made up to me.
DeletedUser
Even if she made it up, there is documentation of such.
DeletedUser
So... where's the documentation? Things don't exist merely by claiming they exist... (well, except in religion)
DeletedUser
Guess those stats are damn hard to come by, as I'm still waiting.
DeletedUser
What's my opinion on abortion?Well,I know that that's one of the most horrible and scary things a girl,woman can indure,and do.
Some Young people have "relations"very early,wich can result in pregnancy.In that situation, teenagers really cannot take care of a babys,or children,because they were so iresponsible in the first place,when that happened.Abortion is one of the solutions in those situations,even that's not good...My opinion is that thats wrong.That mistake was in the first place made by the parents that didn't educate their children.Then its the mistake of the ones "responsible"for that.After you've done something,there's no coming back,and the child does not have to pay the price.But the parents.So,better to give life,than to take it away,and live in shame and hate towards yourself for doing such a thing.-first "entering"those relationships,and then that.But if a woman is able to take care of a baby,and is old enough,I see no reason for abortion,if the woman does not want the child.That's wrong."Why did you have sexual relationship if you don't want to have cildren?"That's always a possibilty,so you must "be ready",or use protection.After something is done,its done.So,that's my opinion.
Some Young people have "relations"very early,wich can result in pregnancy.In that situation, teenagers really cannot take care of a babys,or children,because they were so iresponsible in the first place,when that happened.Abortion is one of the solutions in those situations,even that's not good...My opinion is that thats wrong.That mistake was in the first place made by the parents that didn't educate their children.Then its the mistake of the ones "responsible"for that.After you've done something,there's no coming back,and the child does not have to pay the price.But the parents.So,better to give life,than to take it away,and live in shame and hate towards yourself for doing such a thing.-first "entering"those relationships,and then that.But if a woman is able to take care of a baby,and is old enough,I see no reason for abortion,if the woman does not want the child.That's wrong."Why did you have sexual relationship if you don't want to have cildren?"That's always a possibilty,so you must "be ready",or use protection.After something is done,its done.So,that's my opinion.
DeletedUser
Hil, notice how you completely left out the man's participation in all that? All the burden and shame on the woman, huh?
Where's the man in all this? Oh right, he's off having unprotected sex with some other chick because he finds the condom "ruins his fun." And does he take responsibility for any of it? Not unless he's court-ordered to do so, and even then it's a cat-n-mouse game with not reporting income, thereby claiming insufficient income, therein avoiding the hassle of paying child support (and of course, let's completely ignore the fact he doesn't even bother to participate in rearing the child).
Don't get me started, lest you want me to post statistics that will "shame" the men, particularly those railing against abortion (assuming they have any shame, which I doubt, considering their hypocritical, male chauvinist leanings).
Where's the man in all this? Oh right, he's off having unprotected sex with some other chick because he finds the condom "ruins his fun." And does he take responsibility for any of it? Not unless he's court-ordered to do so, and even then it's a cat-n-mouse game with not reporting income, thereby claiming insufficient income, therein avoiding the hassle of paying child support (and of course, let's completely ignore the fact he doesn't even bother to participate in rearing the child).
Don't get me started, lest you want me to post statistics that will "shame" the men, particularly those railing against abortion (assuming they have any shame, which I doubt, considering their hypocritical, male chauvinist leanings).
DeletedUser
the man has no say in the matter which i feel is part of the problem
if the mans willing to step up and care for the child and mother it should make it far harder to get approval to abort
if the mans willing to step up and care for the child and mother it should make it far harder to get approval to abort
DeletedUser
Great!
Now you want to remove freedoms from the women again.
Let's force them to carry forth children if the man wants it.
Hell, women are property are they not?
DeletedUser
Oh my,you suprised me there Hell!I thought I would get a splash of other guys here who would defend the pride of men..xDDDDDDDOf course I forgot men,I really didn't get my coffee yesterday.Thanks.Yes,they are responsible as well..Raip is one of the reasons for pregnancy as well.But,if you ask meh,(and you don't)I would first go to the guy responsible,and then would continue everything I did in my previous post.
The worst thing having sexual relationship unprotected with men,is that some don't want to admit that that is their child,and leave everything to the woman.Some of my friends never got allimentation from their "husbands"because they never admitet the kids THEY MADE.
So,DON'T get me started...I totally forgot about men in my post yes,(get that coffee!!!)but If I start I really won't finish for another decade.
In these things men are :donkey:.Once they finish with a girl,they go,never return and as you sead,head having sex with another chick.I just hope that ends,because If I go hunting on those kind of guys,If I find my rusty rifle in the house,be aware!Punisher will get out of my way....
But to get back,you're right Hell.I did forgot them,and I'm glad that you're with meh in that,even if your a guy.(are ya?)xD
So,a conclusion:
Abortion-bad
Men-Bad
Woman-bad
Unprotected-bad
-----------
Birth-somewhat positive
Men-If they're caring,good
Woman-If they don't search for rape and sex,-Good
Protected-good!
DeletedUser
Great!
Now you want to remove freedoms from the women again.
Let's force them to carry forth children if the man wants it.
Hell, women are property are they not?
thats not what i said at all it was in responce to someone esles comment about male responcibility and i was clearly pointing out that you cant have it both ways forcing male responcibility but denying them any say in the childs future
and i didnt say the males desicion should overrule all i simply stated that it should be considered int he proccess
untill YOU loose a child to a womans paniced whim or casual dismissal of your feelings you cant even begin to understand what it would be like for a man not having so much as a chance to be heard
DeletedUser
You're right; the man doesn't have any say (legally) about whether a woman decides to abort or give birth. What a man does have a say about is who he has sex with. If he's smart, he'll get to know his partner first - and know before it's an issue if she feels the same way about parenthood and abortion as he does.
DeletedUser
yes but often until put into the situation one never knows how they will react or how there views may or maynot change
often young people react out of rash self intrest and make hasty choices they regret later
ive known about 20 or so women that have choosen to have an abortion for various reasons mostly when they were young and of those 20 15 + of them seriously regreted it later and 5 of them were SERIOUSLY psycologicaly affected by it for years and years including one who ended up a drug addict for years out of desperation to deal witht eh guilt she felt from it
so to say the least i think abortion for non medical reasons ( or rape and incests reasons) should be seriously regulated and it should be a slower processes where all invloved parties are given a chance to speak
DeletedUser
And if the man wants an abortion?
DeletedUser
50 million american babies have been aborted since 1973. I am personally against it, and I think that a good way to solve it is for the mother and father to seek help with some sort of help and advice together before considering abortion. Financial or medical help, the right help will help the problem.
I also agree with Hell with how the fathers need to help fix this problem. Its horrible to have the father walk away while his wife has to go through the stress of a pregnancy, and something needs to be fixed there along with the mother.
A great deal of the stress is put on the mother, and one of the first people she will turn to for help is the father. If we can instil better morals in the minds of those men we can help ease that problem.
I also agree with Hell with how the fathers need to help fix this problem. Its horrible to have the father walk away while his wife has to go through the stress of a pregnancy, and something needs to be fixed there along with the mother.
A great deal of the stress is put on the mother, and one of the first people she will turn to for help is the father. If we can instil better morals in the minds of those men we can help ease that problem.