The Removal of the Stacking Bonus: Blessing or Curse?

DeletedUser

Now before you flip out, take time to read this thread.

A few weeks ago I was avidly campaigning for the removal of the Golden Gun stacking bonus. Due to one side having the majority of the GGs on World 12, winning forts was easy. At the time the stacking bonus was a problem.

However, due to the hard work of many players on World 12, the battles have evened out again. HP was beefed up in order to counteract the massive 500+ hits that have become a commodity. IHLAG prompted players to get the Gun, and though IHLAG hasn't caught up to The Alliance, it is certainly much more even than it used to be. Battle leaders have altered strategies to take full utilization of the stacking bonus, and have also changed the movement of attacks and defenses to coincide with the changes.

When the stacking bonus is removed, there will be way too much HP on the world. DethHolst will be able to hold the front of the Soldier Tower for ten rounds, easy. Cro and I can rush the flag single handedly, assuming the attackers can make a dint in the massive HP swapping of defenses. Breaking north is impossible, you can easily block the south with the pure HPs running around on World 12, and attacks will not stand a chance from the start.

Battles before the stacking bonus were interesting because there was much less HP on the world. On December 21, 2010, Fort Awesomesauce was a full medium battle with 209,411 HP on the attack and 181,467 HP on the defense. On April 10, 2011, Water Woods Keep was a full medium battle with 274,903 HP on the attack and 276,514 HP on the defense. For the attackers that's a gain of 65,492, or 654.92 HP per player. For the defense that's a gain of 95,047, or 1,131.5119 HP per player. So in four months 160,539 HP has been added to medium battles.

Battles will likely last 55 rounds, and the only chance of the attackers winning will be a flag rush. The defense general doesn't need to be too skilled -- just make sure people swap on the towers, and everything should go fine. A lot of the gameplay that we have grown accustomed to in forts will be nonexistent. Experimenting with the GG bonus and movement is a lot more fun than experimenting with just movement.

So the question stands: Is the removal of the Golden Gun stacking bonus a good solution to the problem, or should we campaign to just leave it as it is?
 
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DeletedUser

Josh, Josh, Josh

What can I say, I really think that people adapt to the situation. Good leaders find openings to exploit and that is seen by the new tactics being used now. Good soldiers build up characters to achieve victory.
This really feels like the same talks that took place when W12 went full premium, and tanks had 2k HP. Over night GA came to battles with about 7K in HP(not sure if thats correct, but sounds like it give or take) and at time the alliance were the ones to be behind in the arms race and MG was having more success than the alliance. So the alliance adapted and grew HP, like MG did with the GG's. If GG's stack go away then people will adapt and maybe with out the bonus of GG's misses will go up and aim will be a skill that is used more. I am happy either way it goes with GG's, and look forward to adapting any new challenges that come with any changes.
 

DeletedUser

GA never got to 7k HP. I'm a level 110 as an advent, and am at 7020 with pants and belts.

She was a worker, there was no pants, and was no belts. I'm fairly sure it was around 4k (and the account could've been respecced regardless of premium).

My point is HP is way too massive to make battles remotely interesting once the bonus is removed.
 

DeletedUser

well you know what I mean we will adapt and be fine. And GA was not shy about buying SP's I believe
 

DeletedUser22685

.pl had even more HP than W12 even before the GGs came out and they still managed. I think it's too late to do a backflip now that so many players screamed and voted for it to be removed in the original poll.
 

DeletedUser

.pl had even more HP than W12 even before the GGs came out and they still managed. I think it's too late to do a backflip now that so many players screamed and voted for it to be removed in the original poll.

.pl W11 battles died.
.pl W12 battles are one-sided to begin with.

That's the majority of the .pl worlds on westforts highscores... great, isn't it?
 
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DeletedUser

Although this is your thread Jouais I'll still post so it stays noted if someone in the future searches for players' opinion.
See... Before I came on the west devs wanted to put shaman reset prem like on beta, but the community said "devs, shove off". Now, I want to know who exactly said no - because of those community members who said no, we got another shaman premium, but IMO worse than forget all skills one.

I was never against the gold gun bonus and voted for the option of not to change it at all. I don't have gold gun on w12 as possessing one is nice, but not necessary. Beside damage dealt it's HP+strategy+luck that wins forts.
However it was devs' call what to do with the gun. If devs feel something should be weakened, I won't object. For all those who don't know, and I believe there are still people that don't know, devs decided to allow the sector bonus from only one gold gun in it. That change will be implemented with the next update.
We'll still adapt. We'll just make sure in every starting sector there is at least one gold gun and that's it. During switches in a sector we'll just make sure there is at least one gold gun in it. Etc.

Westforts rankings? That list tracks only damage dealt in forts. In fact it practically ranks towns' and players' total HP as to deal some big damage, your opponents must have high HP.

And this thread should be in Saloon.
 
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DeletedUser20647

.pl W11 battles died.
.pl W12 battles are one-sided to begin with.

That's the majority of the .pl worlds on westforts highscores... great, isn't it?
They used to take out 600k HP without the GGs, and they were not one-sided at the time.
 

DeletedUser

They used to take out 600k HP without the GGs,
Lemme quote hot&sexy: Who cares?
and they were not one-sided at the time.
Another quote of h&s: Big deal.

You skipped (possibly deliberately) the most important part:
... And they were not able to go over level 99 at the time.

When gg came we knew level cap will be raised by 20 levels = 20 AP and 60 SP = 80 points in HP = 800 health (if not soldier).

And in full battles with levelcapped players that means:
800*42=33.600 more health to kill on defenders' side in a small fort
.
.
.
800*140=112.000 more health to kill on attackers' side in a large fort.

Prec. winchester alone can't work on players level 120. I believe I've posted it on this forum once or twice already. Gold gun is not a mistake, the problem is that some people who whined about it's bonus either lack of imagination or didn't want to think what will happen on high levels.
Because of cummunity whining, devs will change fort sectors in a way they can get a bonus from only one gold gun. Can that work? Dunno. We have to wait for the update and see it.
I hope it does not work. Why? Because if it doesn't work, devs will have to introduce another fort fighting weapon or bring back the gold gun's original bonus.

And one more thing. +3 chances bonus to gold gun wielder doesn't work. I hope this bug will be fixed in the update.
 
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DeletedUser

GGs really put defence at a disadvantage if the attackers use them correctly. If not something is done about the stacking defences may appear impossible soon.

Tower attack will be( big fort) something like 95+2*9= 114
Defence about 70+2*9=88

Attackers in a sector with 20 GGs will have attack 45+2*20= 85
Defence about 35+2*20= 55

Since the attackers in bigger sectors also will get more damage due to more GGs and totaly devastate the towers. If the numbers off GGs approaches 30 it will be impossible to defend. 45+2*30= 105.

So i still think the stacking bonuses has to be limited altough i do not really want it to be removed. Just put a max to the stacking bonus i would suggest making the maximum possble extra benefit from them 10. Meaning there will not make any diffrence if there are more than 5GGs in a sector. That way the towers wont be totally outclassed.
 

DeletedUser

For once, I'm agreeing with Joxer. ;)

Level 120 added more HP to the worlds, where the highest HP was already at an advantage to winning battles. Westforts ranking does track the HP your opponents have, which is just another indicator of how much is on World 12. Last week, Mean Girls had our two highest damage dealing battles on record. Fort Clippy with 34 MG at the battle, and another Fort Clippy with 33 MG at the battle. Imagine if more had showed up.

The health on W12 is much higher than other worlds, and the removal of the GG's stacking bonus is only going to make it worse. The average hit right now is somewhere between 350 and 400. With the removal of the stacking bonus, that'll drop about one hundred to 250-300. Removing the bonus will have the same affect of adding about 50k health to our 200k battles. And I may be grossly overestimating our average hit.

Brutus' proposal would work as well, but since the single gun bonus is already coded, I doubt that'll change.

And Jox, this thread isn't in the Saloon because it pertained more to World 12. If I get a positive response here, I'll add some stats from other worlds and make a post in the Saloon.
 

DeletedUser

Battles have evened out in Arizona too. My alliance I´m in there had the majority of GGs. Now the opposing alliance maybe has the same amount, maybe less than we have but we have adapted there too and we´ve also boosted our HPs. I do not think they´ll remove the bonus tough. They said they´re working on a solution that works best for all. Those who doesn´t like stacking and those who do. Maybe they´ll go for a "reduced sector bonus" solution after all. But if they will completly remove the bonus I guess we´ll adapt to that too. ;)
 

DeletedUser22685

Battles have evened out in Arizona too. My alliance I´m in there had the majority of GGs. Now the opposing alliance maybe has the same amount, maybe less than we have but we have adapted there too and we´ve also boosted our HPs. I do not think they´ll remove the bonus tough. They said they´re working on a solution that works best for all. Those who doesn´t like stacking and those who do. Maybe they´ll go for a "reduced sector bonus" solution after all. But if they will completly remove the bonus I guess we´ll adapt to that too. ;)
They are removing the stacking bonus so each sector only gets a bonus from one GG.
 

DeletedUser

Well, what do we do now then? We´ll just have to take advantage of the bonus when it still lasts! We´ll have to adapt to it then when it´s taken away.. haha.
 

DeletedUser22685

The only adapting that needs to be done is to fill every sector your team is occupying with enough GGs to adequately swap in order to keep every sector covered with the bonus at all times.
 

DeletedUser

Yea, towers/walls etc need the bonus as it´s much harder to dfend as the sectors are smaller. Unless defenders go out and snipe as it happened in an arizona battle.
 

DeletedUser22685

Yea, towers/walls etc need the bonus as it´s much harder to dfend as the sectors are smaller.

Once the stacking bonus is removed the size of the sector won't matter.

Darth Maul 2 said:
Unless defenders go out and snipe as it happened in an arizona battle.

It happens in other worlds too. GGs start south before dismounting ASAP to fill one of the big attacking sectors and create a fifth tower.
 

DeletedUser

There won't be any adapting when we go back to the removal of the bonus. We'll just revert back to how battles used to be before the bonus, but with too much HP to kill each other.
 

DeletedUser

Yes. Will be, the only way to win fort battles are thru flagrushes. And if we don´t do that the 55 max rounds will pass by and the battle is over and attackers/defenders are still alive with too much HP to properly kill each other.
 

DeletedUser22685

There won't be any adapting when we go back to the removal of the bonus. We'll just revert back to how battles used to be before the bonus, but with too much HP to kill each other.
So you're not going to maximise the use of the GGs? Strange...
 
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