Stop the over moderation

[darthmaul99174]

Still missing the point, the rules should NOT control speech to the point we are not allowed to express ourselves in a very basic capacity.

We want to talk in general, and not every topic or comment has to be strictly within the topics original purpose and it should develop and change as the discussion/conversation goes on.

Yes topics SHOULD be moderated but within reason and it's very clear everyone feels its OUTSIDE of reason currently.

The very reason this post hasn't been taken down is because we all know it's REASONABLE to express our opinion of VERY PUBLIC actions and behavior that DO affect us. Just because the rules TECHINCALLY disallow this doesn't mean it's in anyones benefit to strictly enforce them.

Rules are made so that they cover any possible blurred lines of rule breaking so undesirables that deliberately chose to push boundries cannot avoid a ban. That doesn't mean everything thats within that very overarching description should be treated the same, a little bit of common sense & understanding should be considered when applying these rules practically.

The only thing the recent bans and post deletions you have done achieve is people dont feel comfortable expressing themselves and you cannot see the people that are upset, now they're alot more upset than before from what was honestly a harmless situation if it had just been allowed to run itself out, I mean it's happened a million times before lol, the world kept spinning then.

It should be clear I have no actual dislike or hate for anyone here, but I do dislike that certain threads have been locked, posts removed & players banned. And its a human right to express that. To Apply those overarching rules with no exceptions will just kill the social element of the forums just like saloon chats were killed.

I hope you consider the posts made in this thread without ego, fully read whats being said and try to empathise. None of whats been said comes from hate and its how the majority who are active feel.

 

[JWillow]

The only thing the recent bans and post deletions you have done achieve is people dont feel comfortable expressing themselves and you cannot see the people that are upset, now they're alot more upset than before from what was honestly a harmless situation if it had just been allowed to run itself out, I mean it's happened a million times before lol, the world kept spinning then.

Realistically threads have been closed for a couple years now as the ones banned often go after each other. Usually the same stories being used or touted as each perspectives of the truth, nothing new every comes of it. Also nothing in the post every lead to anything constructive, just an airing of feuds.

Honestly the harsh punishment is not out of the blue, as witnessed many threads being closed before when they get that way. Also the attacks on sambee were uncalled for, as it was obvious people were reporting each other and it is probably getting to be repetitive to have to step in for the same people and the same arguments over and over again. Plus as someone who read the same stuff over and over again, do feel sorry for anyone having to wade into that. It is as if they believe if they say it enough it will suddenly become true.

Though I am surprised I was not taken out too, I get in trouble for my tone a lot.

 

[1 Bad Wolf]

Maybe you should all re-read the forum rules especially the below points:

For starters who is impersonating the mods? For the most part we do respect what the mods do and their time for the game. Sadly the mods do somewhat abuse their powers and let it go to their heads sadly. To actually request permission to post or create a forum is very sad. Why then have forums to begin with? Please answer that question. Thank you . The problem with asking the higher ups, is that is always a generic answer and they think it fits all. It doesn't. Instead of trying to find the root cause of the issue, they sugar coat it and try to sweep it under the rug. Well that method does not work. Only makes things worse. So instead of banning folks for what they say, try to understand what and where they are coming from. Does not hurt to ask if you aren't sure what they are saying. Try a little tac the old saying is the you will catch more flies with sugar than with vinegar.

 

[darthmaul99174]

Honestly the harsh punishment is not out of the blue, as witnessed many threads being closed before when they get that way. Also the attacks on sambee were uncalled for, as it was obvious people were reporting each other and it is probably getting to be repetitive to have to step in for the same people and the same arguments over and over again. Plus as someone who read the same stuff over and over again, do feel sorry for anyone having to wade into that. It is as if they believe if they say it enough it will suddenly become true.

If he was genuinely attacked yes I agree. Straight up attacks should be punished.

Though I don't believe its as simple as it being the usual suspects, I saw people I didn't think were involved in past similar arguments and it was quite interesting topic even if it was at the same time, very stupid. I still think bans, removals & locks should be a little rarer and reserved for clear cut cases of going WAY too far. Gotta let people do their thing till that point, if it annoys you to see just tell them

 

[sanidh]

Some great role playing happening here, those who cant rebel in RL trying to live their fantasies on the forums..

Im quite satisfied with the moderation and level of involvement from the team, they're doing a thankless job well.

 

[Reyne]

I've been sitting here, eating my popcorn, and watching and reading through the last few forum threads. I thought I would keep my yap shut because I didn't have a dog in this fight. But, you know what? I think I do have a dog in this fight by virtue of having loved and played this game for, oh, the last decade and a half.

I miss the saloon chats across the worlds (all two now) that I play in. Even the arguments and teasing. Mostly, really good discussions. It makes me sad that people are so sensitive, and the need for political correctness is so pervasive that people feel muzzled for fear of offending someone. I never thought I would live to see the day where censorship is the rule instead of the exception. What's next? Booking burnings?

I still will speak in the Saloon, alliance or town chats if I have something to say. Often, there is no response. The social aspect of the game is disappearing. Which is stupid for a MMPRPG. We are playing for the social aspect, and often that is what keeps us logging in year after year - the friends we make. Still, I have no fear of speaking in the saloon because, I think that most people who know me will agree, I am a nice person, and I love to see others enjoy the game I enjoy. I have no joy in bringing someone down. But my mom also used to tell me when I was growing up, "Girl, it's not what you say, but how you say it that gets you into trouble."

I'm not here to blast anyone, or second guess the decisions of the mods. Frankly, I don't know why they subject themselves to all the criticism while receiving no pay for their efforts. At least when I worked with the public and was on the receiving end of a tirade, I at least got a paycheck.

I will say this, and it goes back to my mom's quote:

All of us get passionate or upset from time to time. We are all supposed to be adults, but at the end of the day, we are all human. When we are furiously or passionately typing out our complaints or responses to such, before you hit the enter key or ban button, step away from the keyboard, calm down, get a drink, take a nap, whatever; then, go back and re-read what you've typed and see how you come across. Make changes, if necessary. Players, moderators, helpers - that advice is for all of you. Almost everyone has been decent in their posts, but some can do better.

/two cents worth

 

[JWillow]

Though I don't believe its as simple as it being the usual suspects, I saw people I didn't think were involved in past similar arguments and it was quite interesting topic even if it was at the same time, very stupid. I still think bans, removals & locks should be a little rarer and reserved for clear cut cases of going WAY too far.

I didn't notice anyone new, maybe that is because they have been bickering on worlds for years, maybe not on this forum but somewhere for others to witness, so not new to everyone, sorry guess did not take into account it was new faces to this forum.

Didn't say it annoys me, but to the mod that has to clean up after getting reports and then revenge reporting, to finally just closing to thread to get even more yelling about censoring in favorable ways when really probably mostly just trying to deescalate not get between.

Anyway, moderator should not get blamed when people decide to start throwing the report button and the inevitable outcome, as there is many examples of what happens, why are people so surprised when it happens, short memories?

 

[darthmaul99174]

Some great role playing happening here, those who cant rebel in RL trying to live their fantasies on the forums..

Im quite satisfied with the moderation and level of involvement from the team, they're doing a thankless job well.

QUICKLY, IT'S A PERSONAL ATTACK BAN THEM NOW!

Jokes aside I'm just speaking for those banned, I got alot of messages about this and wanted to speak my peace also. I respect your boot licking tendancies and need to play contrarian which you may express that at any time

Didn't say it annoys me, but to the mod that has to clean up after getting reports and then revenge reporting, to finally just closing to thread to get even more yelling about censoring in favorable ways when really probably mostly just trying to deescalate not get between.

I didn't not mean you specifically in that instance. Just in general to those that dislike it, I either ignore it or speak up myself. Rather than impose my opinion on others by deleting/closing everything. Not to over simplify the subject**** And yes its dumb I dont disagree, sadly people are allowed to be dumb and say dumb things

Anyway, moderator should not get blamed when people decide to start throwing the report button and the inevitable outcome, as there is many examples of what happens, why are people so surprised when it happens, short memories?

I understand what you're saying but, I dont believe that was anything to do with my point. People can report all they they want, it's whether they should be punished, and how they're punished.

& well said @Reyne my sentiments exactly. This is a game at the end of the day and should be treated like one, this is all for peoples entertainment including the forums.

I remember when saloons were alot more entertaining and its was so active & fun. I wont lie, there are a few times when people should've been banned for what was said back then, myself included. But sadly it feels like it swung the ban hammer too hard and we're in a completely opposite situation thats just as bad in a different way.

 

[JWillow]

I guess from my view one thread got closed and post were removed, those were warnings. It was up to the people to take that as a notification to change tactic not just move onto the next thread to continue or to go after the mod and each other. Then of coarse really at the end was a lot of pointing fingers and nothing even remotely constructive.

Yes would be nice if report button was not used so much as a tool to get back at the opposition, especially when there have been clear case of baiting in there.

Anyway, we are guest here and as guests we have to understand that house rules can change, like how many houses had to ban talk of certain things to keep the peace in the last few years(reference to US). Up to us to adapt and find new views or understanding others.

 

[Poker Alice]

I still will speak in the Saloon, alliance or town chats if I have something to say. Often, there is no response. The social aspect of the game is disappearing. Which is stupid for a MMPRPG. We are playing for the social aspect, and often that is what keeps us logging in year after year - the friends we make. Still, I have no fear of speaking in the saloon because, I think that most people who know me will agree, I am a nice person, and I love to see others enjoy the game I enjoy. I have no joy in bringing someone down. But my mom also used to tell me when I was growing up, "Girl, it's not what you say, but how you say it that gets you into trouble."

Agree, it would be nice to see more of and not less social. I think the saying, "you will get more with sugar than with vinegar" is very true.

 

[Sambee]

For starters who is impersonating the mods?

No one at this point. It is just part of the full rule that i posted. I'm more concerned about the "insult, berate or harass" component in this case.

To actually request permission to post or create a forum is very sad. Why then have forums to begin with? Please answer that question. Thank you .

"Do not create public posts regarding moderation without permission" in my interpretation is there to ensure what the user is going to say is within forum rules. Plus it's to stop every disgruntled user from making a post complaining. Sometimes it is just a quick personal message which can answer all questions without getting more users involved.
I am happy for people to talk about moderation, which is what we're doing here, however it can sit very close "discussing bans and infractions and notices" which is not allowed.

I would love for the forums to be more active, like they were 5-10 years ago, but most of the activity begins when users do not have constructive solutions to problems so they play the blame game which causes this snowball event.

So instead of banning folks for what they say, try to understand what and where they are coming from.

We can see where everyone is coming from. In the forum and game we get multiple reports consistently regarding the same issue. For example, one of the threads we had 15 posts reported. On top of that, majority of those were reported multiple times. Locking threads and banning are the last resorts. In this case, there was no bringing the topic back from where it went.

What I am asking is: if a user baits, insults or slanders another user, please report it WITHOUT replying and insulting back. It makes it so much easier if we don't have to sort through who's insulting who while also trying to keep the actual on topic points.

 

[martoru]

problem is that are a lot doing nothing staff members, not evan seeing them online and when a forum moderator do his first act as forum moderator to close a topic is stange... normal a forum moderator should help people here when they have questions.... and only iulian does that and some fort balance stategists (roth groober)

rest are useless... so evan a topic is to close please be closed by someone who we see him here on forum

not to say that in beta we have anouncement about game events one week before events start and here with lots of staff anouncements came barely with 24 hours before event start

 

[Kidd Kalypso]

Yup.....may as well delete this forum. If anyone needs any game info, beta has the better one. Hell, all announcements are always copy/paste from there anyway,

And in case anyone had no idea about that forum.

https://forum.beta.the-west.net/index.php

 

[Victor Kruger]

It is extremely unfair to both the general player community and Team volunteers allowing threads like this whilst at the same time knowing and openly stating this whole topic is taboo subject to penalties ... this is neither professional nor productive to anyone..

Appropriate step should have been to immediately close this thread. Leaving it open has encouraged comments, leading to consequences for players that might not have occurred otherwise. It could look to some like entrapment or just bad judgement. Either way. . It's really not a good look..

For the sake of everyone, both team and player, before more get hurt, banned or further damaged reputations.

Lock this thread down now.

 

[darthmaul99174]

The very point of the thread is that the rules are overarching and not meant to be strictly followed with no exception and to rethink some perspective on how they're enforced. Who cares what a good look is? reputation, what reputations, what does that affect, how will this affect the stock market? who cares

 

[Victor Kruger]

Wasn't really directing my post at you darth, more fussed people are being drawn in to an open taboo topic and then punished for speaking truth as you put it.

A professional would care about reputation, how to conduct oneself in front of their peers should matter in substance as well as appearance, it certainly used to and is clearly lacking now, that was my point.
In turn it affects everyones game, including yours, enough to open a couple of threads apparently. So you obviously do care m8

 

[darthmaul99174]

what is this guy waffling about? can we got a mod here to get this thread back on topic?

 

[Victor Kruger]

what is this guy waffling about? can we got a mod here to get this thread back on topic?

Njub

 

[Millsbd]

they wanted to bbq for the long weekend and didnt want to have to work! lets ban them for 2 day lol

 

[Millsbd]

just cause they are volunteering doesnt give any of you the right to take away my freedom of speech!!! but I guess it does...perm ban me from here cause am always gonna speak my mind specially against tyranny!!!