DeletedUser
All of us will, and as a Norwegian writer put it;
"In a hundred years everything is forgotten."
This I accept.
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All of us will, and as a Norwegian writer put it;
"In a hundred years everything is forgotten."
This I accept.
DeletedUser
not really.
DeletedUser
Blondie, I posted a long post earlier, in response to your earlier arguments, and you opted to act like it didn't even exist. Is that your rebuttal? When faced with firm contra-argument, you're going to close your eyes/ears and ramble incoherently? Look, if you are unable to rebut, just say so. Don't duck the debate. You came in thinking to educate us, and instead you've gained an opportunity to gain an education. Take the education and cherish it, instead of getting all offended by the fact you don't have a reasoned argument.
Okay, that said, let me answer some of the latest silly comments/questions:
The Bible was written hundreds of years AFTER the fall of Babylon and Alexander the Great. Which means those incidents weren't prophesied. You can't pick up a pen today and write about what happened yesterday, then claim your prophecy came true. C'mon, seriously. And as to Revelation 17-18, I read it. No prophecy there, not even anything remotely related. Those self-same revelations were previously used to point at the Roman Catholic Church, and now it's being aimed at the United Nations. Common sense will tell you that you can't grab an alleged prophecy and throw it at things in the hope it sticks. It either fits or it doesn't --- and it doesn't.
This is the same error in evidence you present when you argue God.
So, Thomas & Blondie, before you claim to know the answers, it would help to actually know the questions.
First off, the Higgs-Bosom Particle hypothesis was posed on the cover of a book as "God Particle," and was done so in a rather irreverent manner. I (and now, so too does the author) feel it was a bad choice of words, a poor moment for witty sarcasm by the author. I feel such primarily because it opened up an opportunity for ignorant people like you to decide to run off with the mouth without having the education to understand what it is they are drooling on.
In brutally lay terms, this particle is theorized (within the Higgs Field Theory) to act like a rolling ball of glue. Massless particles (vector bosons) in the vacuum of Thomas' mind are then merged, combined, and therein create mass. It's a theory for how things go from having no mass, to having mass. The thing is, it's one of MANY theories, all of which attempt to hypothesize ways in which certain inconsistencies in theoretical physics can be nicely packaged and tied with a petite little red bow.
How does it relate to God? It doesn't. How does it close the book? It doesn't. How is it in any way related to faith, religion, Moses, the 10 commandments, episode #84 of Sex in the City, Thomas' unerring fallibility? Well, it's related only in the means to demonstrate how massless particles can, maybe, become mass particles, bridging the gap between a no-mass universe theory and a mass-universe theory, and thereby showing a sort of evolution to the universe through answering, "when did mass begin?"
And now for the rebuttal. If God has mass, then the Higgs-Bosom Particle existed before God. If God does not have mass, then he has no relation to the Higgs-Boson Particle, whose effect it is to turn non-mass into mass. I.e., if God has no mass, he is untouched by the Higgs-Boson Particle, and thus never touched it, never created it, never influenced it's beginnings. For if he had influenced its beginnings, he himself would have influenced himself, and obtained mass. Why? Because for anything to occur, under any circumstance, there requires forces (bosons).
And, of course, the old argument about God is going to be, he created all things, and therefore bosons were created by God, as were quarks and leptons. Which, if you had any study on this at all, you would find that argument to be preposterous, merely for the fact God would have had to create himself in order to create all other things, and for nothing to become something from nothing, would require --- you guessed it --- a Higg Boson Particle.
Okay, that said, let me answer some of the latest silly comments/questions:
We don't know, and when I say we, I meant none of us, you included. In rebuttal, what created God?What created the first matter in the Universe?
And that's your rebuttal for my entire post previously? Right, okay:I have also posted how the Bible is CLEARLY divinely inspired, such as the prophecies of Alexander the Great, Babylon's destruction and even the prophesy of the United Nations. That is how, even though the Bible was written BY men, it was inspired, OF God.
Code:
~530BC Babylon Destruction
356BC-323BC Alexander the Great
80AD-160AD Bible
1945 (U.N.) Revelation 17-18False logic. All you know is the alleged secretary wrote the letter. You do not know if a boss exists but, in your example, you are ASSUMING the existence of the boss without even considering the possibility that the alleged secretary may, in fact, be her own boss. You see no office, you see no boss, there is no evidence whatsoever to demonstrate a boss even exists. Even the plaques on the walls have no names, the picture frames have no pictures. But, this person stands there with a letter in hand and claims to be a secretary for an all-powerful boss, so you better read it and blindly follow the directions of this letter.A boss dictates a letter to his secretary, the secretary writes all of it but the boss tell her what to write. Who wrote the letter?
This is the same error in evidence you present when you argue God.
Maybe you should stop asking your hamster. If you ask someone who doesn't even know what it is, you're not going to get an answer. But more importantly, if you knew what it was, you wouldn't have asked such a dumb ass stupid question (so many times). You would have known how your question doesn't make sense and would have instead sat on your hands.THANK YOU THOMAS! I LOVE YOU LIKE A BROTHER NOW! I asked that question (Higg-Boson particles) so many times and haven't EVER gotten an actual answer, all ive ever gotten was "We don't know." THANK YOU!!!
So, Thomas & Blondie, before you claim to know the answers, it would help to actually know the questions.
Seeing as you don't even know what the Higgs-Boson particle is, I'll first have to educate you before I can rebut.Where did the ______ Higgs-Boson Particle come from if there is no God?
First off, the Higgs-Bosom Particle hypothesis was posed on the cover of a book as "God Particle," and was done so in a rather irreverent manner. I (and now, so too does the author) feel it was a bad choice of words, a poor moment for witty sarcasm by the author. I feel such primarily because it opened up an opportunity for ignorant people like you to decide to run off with the mouth without having the education to understand what it is they are drooling on.
In brutally lay terms, this particle is theorized (within the Higgs Field Theory) to act like a rolling ball of glue. Massless particles (vector bosons) in the vacuum of Thomas' mind are then merged, combined, and therein create mass. It's a theory for how things go from having no mass, to having mass. The thing is, it's one of MANY theories, all of which attempt to hypothesize ways in which certain inconsistencies in theoretical physics can be nicely packaged and tied with a petite little red bow.
How does it relate to God? It doesn't. How does it close the book? It doesn't. How is it in any way related to faith, religion, Moses, the 10 commandments, episode #84 of Sex in the City, Thomas' unerring fallibility? Well, it's related only in the means to demonstrate how massless particles can, maybe, become mass particles, bridging the gap between a no-mass universe theory and a mass-universe theory, and thereby showing a sort of evolution to the universe through answering, "when did mass begin?"
And now for the rebuttal. If God has mass, then the Higgs-Bosom Particle existed before God. If God does not have mass, then he has no relation to the Higgs-Boson Particle, whose effect it is to turn non-mass into mass. I.e., if God has no mass, he is untouched by the Higgs-Boson Particle, and thus never touched it, never created it, never influenced it's beginnings. For if he had influenced its beginnings, he himself would have influenced himself, and obtained mass. Why? Because for anything to occur, under any circumstance, there requires forces (bosons).
And, of course, the old argument about God is going to be, he created all things, and therefore bosons were created by God, as were quarks and leptons. Which, if you had any study on this at all, you would find that argument to be preposterous, merely for the fact God would have had to create himself in order to create all other things, and for nothing to become something from nothing, would require --- you guessed it --- a Higg Boson Particle.
DeletedUser
*applauds*
Thank you for that post Hellstromm.
It was a joy reading it.
Thank you for that post Hellstromm.
It was a joy reading it.
DeletedUser
You know, i have responded to many many long posts like yours and they go nowhere but to my irritation of ignorant denial and stupidity, but about prophecy the earlies book in the Bible was written in 1513 BC. I don't know where you got that time line, but you need to slap that guy in the face.
and you haven't "answered" any of those quotes, you have no understanding, nothing created God, if so, then God would have a superior, and that is not the case, but if you ask how that's possible then answer me this, When did time begin?
The higgs particle had a creator everything you just typed was a waste of your time, all of that is BS.
And about the Bible's divine authorship, i have written the SAME things for two days now and you guys ask questions that i answered, it is a ll bull crap.
Get over being wrong, and get used to it, because that is what you are.
and btw you talk about me and thomas relying on each other, think about this, we have 4 morons going against us and are still looking like imbeciles.
and i now refuse post on this subject anymore unless someone posts another reasonable question
and you haven't "answered" any of those quotes, you have no understanding, nothing created God, if so, then God would have a superior, and that is not the case, but if you ask how that's possible then answer me this, When did time begin?
The higgs particle had a creator everything you just typed was a waste of your time, all of that is BS.
And about the Bible's divine authorship, i have written the SAME things for two days now and you guys ask questions that i answered, it is a ll bull crap.
Get over being wrong, and get used to it, because that is what you are.
and btw you talk about me and thomas relying on each other, think about this, we have 4 morons going against us and are still looking like imbeciles.
and i now refuse post on this subject anymore unless someone posts another reasonable question
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DeletedUser
Fine.
Take the cowards path, walk away with your ignorance intact.
Take the cowards path, walk away with your ignorance intact.
DeletedUser
Blondie, my posts were courteous and detailed (not too courteous with Thomas, but that's a relationship history thing and I like to needle him just as much as he likes to get annoyed at me). I'm sure I can chase down links to corroborate just about every argument, statement and data I provided.
Now, you argued the Bible's prophecies were written in 1513BC. I find this interesting. Could you tell me if it was on February 29th at 7:32 AM or 7:34 AM? I mean, if you're going to be so accurate with the year, the least you could do is provide me date and time.
Or, you could just read this and find yourself once again pwned --- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Development_of_the_Jewish_Bible_canon
Now, you argued the Bible's prophecies were written in 1513BC. I find this interesting. Could you tell me if it was on February 29th at 7:32 AM or 7:34 AM? I mean, if you're going to be so accurate with the year, the least you could do is provide me date and time.
Or, you could just read this and find yourself once again pwned --- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Development_of_the_Jewish_Bible_canon
DeletedUser
do you know who writes stuff on wikipedia?
anybody, i could go there right now and change whatever i wanted just about, so your source is completely irrelevant
and the prophecies i spoke of were written in bout 732 BC, but the first book of the Bible was written in 1513
But since im done with this "Holy Word War" i would like you guys to know i hold all of you in good respect, and wish we might be friends.
anybody, i could go there right now and change whatever i wanted just about, so your source is completely irrelevant
and the prophecies i spoke of were written in bout 732 BC, but the first book of the Bible was written in 1513
But since im done with this "Holy Word War" i would like you guys to know i hold all of you in good respect, and wish we might be friends.
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DeletedUser
Can everyone stop triple posting here please? I am about to get my banhammer out.
There is an edit button. Use it.
I am enjoying the discussion, so apart from that I have no input.
There is an edit button. Use it.
I am enjoying the discussion, so apart from that I have no input.
DeletedUser
In response to Hellstromm's question:
I once asked my Scoutmaster-preacher that question. He made a very interesting point.
God is supposedly "infinite". While "infinite" is generally used to mean going on forever, it can also be interpreted as separated from time.
Thus, God could exist outside the spacetime-continuum. He (and I only use that pronoun because it is the most common one for describing God) could exist everywhere and in every time simultaneously.
Then again, if time began with the Big Bang one could make the argument that the Higgs-Boson Particle was "infinite".
EDIT: Einstein once said that "coincidence is God's way of proving his existence". The fact that a major pioneer of modern physics believed in a creator says something.
I once asked my Scoutmaster-preacher that question. He made a very interesting point.
God is supposedly "infinite". While "infinite" is generally used to mean going on forever, it can also be interpreted as separated from time.
Thus, God could exist outside the spacetime-continuum. He (and I only use that pronoun because it is the most common one for describing God) could exist everywhere and in every time simultaneously.
Then again, if time began with the Big Bang one could make the argument that the Higgs-Boson Particle was "infinite".
EDIT: Einstein once said that "coincidence is God's way of proving his existence". The fact that a major pioneer of modern physics believed in a creator says something.
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DeletedUser
do you know who writes stuff on wikipedia?
anybody, i could go there right now and change whatever i wanted just about, so your source is completely irrelevant
That's your best rebuttal? You didn't even bother to review the data, just attacked the place where the data is presented?
That's weak dude, seriously. If you can't be bothered to rebut the posts I present, then go pick up a copy of The Canon Debate and get a little education.
Umm, Einstein was far and away an atheist. As always, demonstrative ignorance, but thanks for playing.EDIT: Einstein once said that "coincidence is God's way of proving his existence". The fact that a major pioneer of modern physics believed in a creator says something.
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DeletedUser
In response to Hellstromm's question:
I once asked my Scoutmaster-preacher that question. He made a very interesting point.
God is supposedly "infinite". While "infinite" is generally used to mean going on forever, it can also be interpreted as separated from time.
Thus, God could exist outside the spacetime-continuum. He (and I only use that pronoun because it is the most common one for describing God) could exist everywhere and in every time simultaneously.
Then again, if time began with the Big Bang one could make the argument that the Higgs-Boson Particle was "infinite".
This is exactly the point about the time dimension and creation. Neither higgs-boson nor God can be argued via the "what came first" argument. I could be wrong of course and am willing to be convinced but I have not had it explained to me.
DeletedUser
The difference is quite clear Bendos: One is a hypothetical particle within a theory that is backed by substantial scientific/mathematical evidence, while the other is, quite simply, completely unsubstantiated imaginings of scared, primitive folk who believed the world was flat, the sun rested at night, and women were property.
DeletedUser
Okay, for recap on the atheist theories:
1. There is no reason why a Universe exists. It just does.
2. Blondie and the Bible are stupid.
3. It is pure chance that humans have developed minds.
For recap on Blondie's theory:
1. Everything the Bible says is correct.
2. Different "coincidences" prove that.
3. Science is correct in some instances, but not many.
For recap on my theory:
1. Intelligent design proves that God exists.
2. The fact that the "Universe just exists for no reason" makes no sense.
1. There is no reason why a Universe exists. It just does.
2. Blondie and the Bible are stupid.
3. It is pure chance that humans have developed minds.
For recap on Blondie's theory:
1. Everything the Bible says is correct.
2. Different "coincidences" prove that.
3. Science is correct in some instances, but not many.
For recap on my theory:
1. Intelligent design proves that God exists.
2. The fact that the "Universe just exists for no reason" makes no sense.
DeletedUser
you know Thomas, i have suggested intelligent design before and that was ineffective, that is the only reason i don't post that as much, but me and you are on the same page pretty much.
and coincidences don't prove that, the majesty of the universe does, like you said, i am by no means ignorant, i just have already proved the Bible's divine authorship to myself through much study. that is why i speak of it as fact.
and coincidences don't prove that, the majesty of the universe does, like you said, i am by no means ignorant, i just have already proved the Bible's divine authorship to myself through much study. that is why i speak of it as fact.
DeletedUser
I'm sorry if I acted like you were ignorant. It's easy for me to quickly turn on a religious person, just like an atheist.
Well, if we (and I'm sure we are) correct than John and Hellstromm are going to get a big shock when they wander into Heaven.
Well, if we (and I'm sure we are) correct than John and Hellstromm are going to get a big shock when they wander into Heaven.
DeletedUser
1. Intelligent design proves that God exists.
2. The fact that the "Universe just exists for no reason" makes no sense.
You must be a forum stooge too . Come on whichever forum atheist it is, the game's up. Your stupid alter ego has been rumbled. No longer will we be fooled by these moronic postings. It's a pretty low tactic to put these people up to prove your point in debate.
DeletedUser
well, thomas, the Bible doesn't say everyone's going to heaven
DeletedUser
Good pile of rubbish you collected there Thomas.Okay, for recap on the atheist theories:
1. There is no reason why a Universe exists. It just does.
2. Blondie and the Bible are stupid.
3. It is pure chance that humans have developed minds.
For recap on Blondie's theory:
1. Everything the Bible says is correct.
2. Different "coincidences" prove that.
3. Science is correct in some instances, but not many.
For recap on my theory:
1. Intelligent design proves that God exists.
2. The fact that the "Universe just exists for no reason" makes no sense.
You perform to expectation yet again. Well done!
I'm impressed by your uncanny ability to be wrong though.
DeletedUser
Anyone that believes half the stuff in the bible needs mental help. That, or they must have been buzzing off their tits on acid when they wrote bits like building an ark and gathering two of every animal from all over the planet. Probably some smackhead sitting at a bus stop/camel stop or whatever, hallucinating. Quality stuff, the bible, knocks the spots off Harry Potter.
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