P&P Multis again?

[DeletedUser]

I'm saying the defense would have the advantage in average hp. It obviously won't have the advantage in total hp (if the battle is maxed and not completely lop-sided). More people show to defense, and less people make it into the battle. So, the defense will be able to do a better job of selecting the highest hp players. To really compare them it would probably make sense to take the top 84 attackers and compare their hp to the 84 defenders. The extra 16 that make it into the battle are probably the lower hp players, and they skew the average lower for the attackers. But, really that's all a minor point and wouldn't explain the large differences in the battles you posted.

I do understand your numbers now after taking a closer look, I just don't have nay way of really judging how imbalanced it is based on 1,100 hp a man for the extra 16.

Looking at total hp difference is too difficult to interpret, because it depends on the size of the battle and the number of people that show up. A 30k hp difference in a large is a whole lot different than in a small.

All that is to say, those battles look imbalanced. I imagine things would look somewhat different if it we looked at a battle that was the only battle happening. And, I imagine a Project attack would look different. But, I imagine it would still be sufficiently imbalanced, since some of those battles you linked were very imbalanced.

The day before the massive multis (don't know if it was the cause of the multis), there was this battle:
04/14/2011Diablo Blaze-Shadow Walkers-Diablo Ridge50 vs 42
ConqueredH.p. 127.545 (97%) : 106.778 (99%)

That works out to an average hp advantage of 16 hp for the Project. The reality of the situation is probably somewhere in between and closer to the imbalanced battles. (I don't think this battle is representative of where we are)

 

[DeletedUser16008]

yea i know what you were talking about i was just being difficult ... sorry

It was only a snapshot of the last few better attended battles and given 2 steroids can add near on 20k hp to a battle its very hard to judge.

Overall tho id say theres a gap there, add in fort builds and GG and onliners, its not a great recipe for good battles atm

Dueling however is a whole different story

 

[DeletedUser9470]

sorry kayak, just thought you were yet another project guy coming in to slag us all off.
seems to me you are not that sort.

GC lost it in the last month before FFU, i reckon much due to bickering in the ranks, thus the schism to FFU/GC.

the problem is tanking.
we saw during the MC/GC war that the winning side always had the tank.
hooooaaaa was the first, MC won
OAN followed and Hoooaaaa quit and GC won.
then OAN did a special One Armed flip flop maneuver and came along Vengyr, those days it was all very very close.
then Miran 116 came in and balanced it to GC again.
then miran and vengyr stopped showing and tide turned again in MC favour.
with the likes of rusty, ugly, FJ, a lot of bold city who had more and more HP.

so it is easy to understand that having ONE tank will balance the game towards a side.
let alone 5 or 6
add on top GG stack bonus...

the problem this creates isnt for the winning side for sure, its fun.
Its easy to forget that its only down to HP, people would talk about tactics and nice moves, but when both sides are as tactical and as mobile as each other it all comes down to HP.

GG stack bonus will be gone soon. so now its a case of monitoring HP.

what are the solutions?
we have same amount of tanks either side?
this is a nice idea but it pushes people to become tanks.
the reason why tanking isnt good and must be limited is because it makes life a hell of a lot harder for NON-tanks.
one or two make it more interesting, more makes it lopsided.
you will never fill an entire attack with only tanks so FBs need everyone including normal players.
if its a pain in the butt as a normal player then why would you bother?

so you end up with a load of tanks who are real happy at winning everything who fill their side with a load of noobs happy to come along for a free win, and an opposition with a few tanks, who are doing their best to keep themselves motivated in going up outnumbered, knowing they will be slaughtered, and no normal players.

making your alliance players go to an FB when everyone knows the outcome is probably an absolute nightmare... so instead of motivating them what else can you do?
talk?
we did that from the start of the project, only means we have is to come here and speak to this post hoping someone will hear it, as there is no one in project making the decisions.
its like going to war with terrorists. you dont know who is bad, who is good.
All tank up?
well no one gives a damn about that, a certain few, but then that makes the "i dont give for FBs cos i die in 1st round anyway" incentive.

ignore fbs, and win on other grounds?
this solution is good, everyones a winner. the project get all the forts, and MC get all the duelling points.

impose an HP restriction at fbs?

MC wont ever give up, we lose a battle but not the war.

 

[DeletedUser]

so, neo, what i'm hearing from you is that if some Project Tanks fought for The Coalition on a rotating basis (or we found some other way to even out HP without your members having to tank up), you'd be willing to work with us? Miss B is determined to run fort fighting in to the ground regardless, how about you?

 

[DeletedUser9470]

so, neo, what i'm hearing from you is that if some Project Tanks fought for The Coalition on a rotating basis (or we found some other way to even out HP without your members having to tank up), you'd be willing to work with us? Miss B is determined to run fort fighting in to the ground regardless, how about you?

no, i think tanking should be stopped completely.
like i said, it only creates more problems for everyone.

i think a restriction on amount of HP is best solution.
If you come with more than x HP then u aint in, as simple as that.
and i think that should be from 4k to 5k hp max.

 

[DeletedUser]

no, i think tanking should be stopped completely.
like i said, it only creates more problems for everyone.

i think a restriction on amount of HP is best solution.
If you come with more than x HP then u aint in, as simple as that.
and i think that should be from 4k to 5k hp max.

Ok, but that still doesn't answer the question of whether you'd be willing to work with us if we were able to accomplish that.

 

[DeletedUser9470]

of couse i would, but i dont need to do much, my hp maxes out at 3k

 

[DeletedUser16008]

so, neo, what i'm hearing from you is that if some Project Tanks fought for The Coalition on a rotating basis (or we found some other way to even out HP without your members having to tank up), you'd be willing to work with us? Miss B is determined to run fort fighting in to the ground regardless, how about you?

I should point out something here ... and you arnt gonna like it nor probably believe it but..

This Miss B Have paranoia is just that, lets get that loud and clear its not run by MBH whatever you and others may think...

I know you love to lay things at specific peoples doors but your plain wrong. Not that MBH needs me to defend her & although she just loves to be on your top of the villains list youd be pretty dumb to think it can be laid at her feet but im sure shed be only too happy to have you kiss them

Now whats your current complaint seeing as there is no counters atm ?

 

[DeletedUser]

Now whats your current complaint seeing as there is no counters atm ?

It wasn't addressed to me, but I'll tell you my current complaint. Apparently MC's new strategy is to call a battle every 8 hours or so, but only attempt to show up to a small number of these. So, there are no multis or counters, just a slow painful death to the world.

Calling battles with no intention of filling them is what drives people away from the game. That's the whole problem with multis. People go to battles that don't happen, and eventually they just get tired of going at.

I know there are some balance issues that need some attention, and hopefully that's happening. But, let's not pretend what's happening now doing anything but helping kill this world.

As for trying to institute a max hp limit, you guys shouldn't waste time deciding on what the limit could be, it's a futile exercise. You can't make people build their character a certain way. I don't like having massive tanks in the battles either, but coming up with a hp limit is as silly as having a battle schedule that people have to sign up for.

I guess in the end, this world is dieing. We made an attempt to keep it alive, and that attempt has failed miserably. It seems to me there has been very little done recently that has done anything to help keep this world alive from either side. Oh well, all good things must come to an end.

 

[DeletedUser9470]

It wasn't addressed to me, but I'll tell you my current complaint. Apparently MC's new strategy is to call a battle every 8 hours or so, but only attempt to show up to a small number of these. So, there are no multis or counters, just a slow painful death to the world.

Calling battles with no intention of filling them is what drives people away from the game. That's the whole problem with multis. People go to battles that don't happen, and eventually they just get tired of going at.

I know there are some balance issues that need some attention, and hopefully that's happening. But, let's not pretend what's happening now doing anything but helping kill this world.

As for trying to institute a max hp limit, you guys shouldn't waste time deciding on what the limit could be, it's a futile exercise. You can't make people build their character a certain way. I don't like having massive tanks in the battles either, but coming up with a hp limit is as silly as having a battle schedule that people have to sign up for.

I guess in the end, this world is dieing. We made an attempt to keep it alive, and that attempt has failed miserably. It seems to me there has been very little done recently that has done anything to help keep this world alive from either side. Oh well, all good things must come to an end.

only fort fighting dies. but that died in February.
despite many efforts to get project to realise this, nothing has been done.
you can only blame yourselves.
like i said, reap what you sow...

on the other hand, duelling has picked up a lot, and once fort battles have died off completely we will be able to split the world in 2.
and MC will do it properly, Im sure to achieve this is very easy. you might need to think for 2 seconds!

 

[DeletedUser16008]

It wasn't addressed to me, but I'll tell you my current complaint. Apparently MC's new strategy is to call a battle every 8 hours or so, but only attempt to show up to a small number of these. So, there are no multis or counters, just a slow painful death to the world.

Calling battles with no intention of filling them is what drives people away from the game. That's the whole problem with multis. People go to battles that don't happen, and eventually they just get tired of going at.

I know there are some balance issues that need some attention, and hopefully that's happening. But, let's not pretend what's happening now doing anything but helping kill this world.

As for trying to institute a max hp limit, you guys shouldn't waste time deciding on what the limit could be, it's a futile exercise. You can't make people build their character a certain way. I don't like having massive tanks in the battles either, but coming up with a hp limit is as silly as having a battle schedule that people have to sign up for.

I guess in the end, this world is dieing. We made an attempt to keep it alive, and that attempt has failed miserably. It seems to me there has been very little done recently that has done anything to help keep this world alive from either side. Oh well, all good things must come to an end.

Well you should have some answers in your internal forum theres a very good reason to what we are doing in forts atm and its not for the reason youve come up with I assure you. We have 2 very different camps and nothing is likely to make people drop their tank builds if its requested by anyone its true. It can however be highlighted its to their benefit if they do choose to build in other ways and a whole lot safer & satisfying re the rest of the game.Just because its been deemed that you need high HP for forts and people have built to that effect in other worlds does not mean it has to be the same on w10. The same can be said for dueling ... you need those duel skills if you dont want to be a victim on this world i would suggest that should be considered because that is what we are mainly about and always were.

I put it to you that if there was more dueling taking place and skilled for such there would be less to pile into HP and so alleviate the main problem tanks produce... thats not to say that the GG dosnt have a lot to answer for but as far as HP go there are ways and means to show forts are not the only thing to this game nor do forts have to be the only reason people log in. Things were a lot more fun when all aspects of the game were going on at the same time and with a few exceptions who had high HP the rest of us used skills for dueling and work etc ...

Its probably too late to change the way forts have gone but that dosn't mean we cant try, people are lemmings and just often follow the crowd without thinking. If players quit because all they are here for is forts and nothing else maybe the problem is with the game style they play & not that others dont hold the same view ... if it is then the game is doomed anyway... reskill some points to dueling and re discover the reason you got those golden things in your left hand

 

[DeletedUser]

Well you should have some answers in your internal forum theres a very good reason to what we are doing in forts atm and its not for the reason youve come up with I assure you. We have 2 very different camps and nothing is likely to make people drop their tank builds if its requested by anyone its true. It can however be highlighted its to their benefit if they do choose to build in other ways and a whole lot safer & satisfying re the rest of the game.Just because its been deemed that you need high HP for forts and people have built to that effect in other worlds does not mean it has to be the same on w10. The same can be said for dueling ... you need those duel skills if you dont want to be a victim on this world i would suggest that should be considered because that is what we are mainly about and always were.

I put it to you that if there was more dueling taking place and skilled for such there would be less to pile into HP and so alleviate the main problem tanks produce... thats not to say that the GG dosnt have a lot to answer for but as far as HP go there are ways and means to show forts are not the only thing to this game nor do forts have to be the only reason people log in. Things were a lot more fun when all aspects of the game were going on at the same time and with a few exceptions who had high HP the rest of us used skills for dueling and work etc ...

Its probably too late to change the way forts have gone but that dosn't mean we cant try, people are lemmings and just often follow the crowd without thinking. If players quit because all they are here for is forts and nothing else maybe the problem is with the game style they play & not that others dont hold the same view ... if it is then the game is doomed anyway... reskill some points to dueling and re discover the reason you got those golden things in your left hand

I don't have any answers internal forum. And I didn't really offer a reason for why you were doing it. I simply said what you were doing and the logical result that will follow. I assume your stated reasoning is to gather all the players in one spot so that you can duel them, or something to that effect. But, that doesn't change much.

It's clear MC is calling lots of battles frequently and has no intention of fighting in most of those battles. Whether your intent is to wear down the opposition by meaningless battles or not doesn't really matter. It doesn't take long for someone to stop showing up when the battles they go to don't end up happening.

As we've already said it is a relatively small number of players that are building the mega-tanks. So, now you've developed a strategy to make these tanks suffer so that they will reskill back to a more all-around build. My guess is that the small number of tanks are the players that are more active, will be online enough to avoid the duels or be able to use nuggets and cookies to move and heal up for other battles. The real consequence is that the average player ends up wasting a lot of time going to fake battles. And, these average players will undoubtedly lose interest at least in forts, and likely more.

Anyway, I've already spent too much time on this nonsense. I hope eventually this world gets back to decent battles here, whether I'm still here for it or not. Regadless, it's nice to see there can be a civil conversation even on a P&P thread, and even the typical useless posts thrown in. Later.

 

[DeletedUser9470]

Last 2 battles are Jokes

ZenDen Hideout May 1, 11 2:17 AM ZenDen 42 50 -Shadow Walkers-
50 fighters have attacked the Fort. 42 defenders defended.
15 attackers fell. 42 defenders fell.

The End of the World Apr 30, 11 7:15 PM -Shadow Walkers- 42 50 Diablo Ridge
50 fighters have attacked the Fort. 42 defenders defended.
50 attackers fell. 0 defenders fell.

ooo look at us trying to balance the world!!!
Then you ask that we should talk and be constructive?
I really hope that MC boycotts all forts completely from now on.
Dont tell me! I am the one destroying this world?...
you just dont care about w10.

 

[DeletedUser]

I may be offtopic here but what is happening with OAN lately? Last 3 fights he is fighting for project, than for coalition, than for project again. Any info about this?

 

[DeletedUser9470]

I may be offtopic here but what is happening with OAN lately? Last 3 fights he is fighting for project, than for coalition, than for project again. Any info about this?

just another backstab maneuver, hes pretending to be MC so he gets all the info...

 

[DeletedUser17969]

Jesus Neo, I realise that this is a P&P thread but never have I heard so much crap spouted from one person - perhaps in the past I simply blanked you out as white noise.

It's pretty tiring mate. Best be careful that your propaganda doesn't end up with your own alliance members getting bored and leaving.

Hmmm..... then again, as you suggest, perhaps this is all a Neo masterplan to force w10 to quit entirely so that you can enjoy it alone!

... at least you could then walk around naked without offending anyone :laugh:

 

[DeletedUser9470]

Jesus Neo, I realise that this is a P&P thread but never have I heard so much crap spouted from one person - perhaps in the past I simply blanked you out as white noise.

It's pretty tiring mate. Best be careful that your propaganda doesn't end up with your own alliance members getting bored and leaving.

Hmmm..... then again, as you suggest, perhaps this is all a Neo masterplan to force w10 to quit entirely so that you can enjoy it alone!

... at least you could then walk around naked without offending anyone :laugh:

u still dont get it?
quite clearly i am vouching for exactly that, a complete reshuffle again.
if MC splits then the whole world will win.

ps im not jesus, im god. foot is jesus.

 

[DeletedUser]

so, what? we dissolve our alliances and everyone gets randomly assigned to one of two alliances?

A-M vs. N-Z work for you?

 

[DeletedUser9470]

so, what? we dissolve our alliances and everyone gets randomly assigned to one of two alliances?

A-M vs. N-Z work for you?

why not? cant be any worse than what we have already...

 

[DeletedUser16970]

I suggest an A-N vs O-Z split... for obvious reasons