P&P Multis again?

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DeletedUser

Only thing ludicrous is that you felt the need to post that seeing that Helen had put it in quotation marks (" ").

Mods, can't live with em can't run a forum without em...

Oh...right she put it in quotes. So, she isn't claiming some kind of server rigging?

I don't know how else you could really read that other than someone is cheating to give the Project a better hit and dodge ratio.

The only other possible way to read that is reading "the server" as the random number generator and just bad luck. But, that doesn't seem to fit with any of the rest of the comments, because certainly if it's luck things will eventually balance out.

I'm sure Helen will clarify it for us.

Seems there are an awful lot of Cro-spiracy theories out there.
 

DeletedUser

Oh...right she put it in quotes. So, she isn't claiming some kind of server rigging?

I don't know how else you could really read that other than someone is cheating to give the Project a better hit and dodge ratio.

Vs.

The only other possible way to read that is reading "the server" as the random number generator and just bad luck.




The only other possible way to read that is reading "the server" as the random number generator and just bad luck. But, that doesn't seem to fit with any of the rest of the comments, because certainly if it's luck things will eventually balance out.

How disapointing, here I had thought that you was one of the few Noobject players to be taken serious when you posted, looks like I was wrong!

What part of what Helen wrote dones not "fit" with the random number thing?
Please be so kind to outline that part of her post that makes that impossible - thx!

I, even without being inside Helens pretty head, can work out that she is reffering to the "Balance" issue and that simply having equal numbers or HP for that matter on each side does not create a balanced fight. Noobject comes out on top regardless seems to be her point - that is summed up in the phrase: "The server" favours The Project

But I mean why read the post if you can make an issue out of it - and you guys wonder why we call you noobs!

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD! ( I could really use a smiley doing a facepalm to convey my sentiment to your last post)
 
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DeletedUser

Need further proof? Look at the reports for each of those battles and compare the top defenders/attackers in "Damage Inflicted" as well as "Hit Count" and "Missed Shots".
Followed by
Whether it be attacking or defending... "The server" favours The Project.
The most logical reading of that seems to be a claim of server rigging or something similar. Otherwise, it's just bad luck. And if it's just bad luck then looking at the results of those battles don't mean much because the luck will eventually flip the other way.

"Need further proof?" Proof of what if not some kind of cheating? Proof that MC has had a couple unlucky battles? There will always be some lucky battles and some unlucky ones, why would we need proof? And if that is the case all that does is argue in favor of balance rather than in favor of imbalance. If the Project won because of luck, then it didn't win because of imbalance.

I guess it's possible Helen meant something else and it just didn't come across that clearly, and I hope that's the case. But, I think the most obvious way of reading it is the way futurama1001 did. Either way, I'm glad we are agreed that rigging the server is ludicrous. I guess we'll just have to wait for Helen if she wants to clarify it.

So if we look at those battles, the last 2 the project had a sizeable HP advantage. The first one HP average was closer to even, but attackers only had 3 extra people, so they were at a disadvantage. The small fort attack the project was at a HP disadvantage, but managed to win the battle. This happens. MC has won battles where they had a HP disadvantage too. The HP could certainly still be a more balanced overall. But, is there now a new source of imbalance we need to be worried about? It seems like that's what's being claimed.
 

DeletedUser9470

You are blaming us for aiming and dodging better. I see.

you cannot aim or dodge better. having 200 aim or 0 equates to very similar results.
as such its not aboutwho is the most skillfull but about which side gets the server advantage.

ie luck (mods are always very lucky :D )

u can brag about luck. i would wait till ive won the lottery to do so.

if it's luck things will eventually balance out.
in terms of hit/dodge ratios things will not balance out, either you're lucky or you're not, you cant be half lucky...

having high hp gives more goes at being lucky, as simple as that, the more lines you play on the lottery the more chances you will have at being lucky.

so winning or losing fbs is only down to luck, HP only enhances your chances, hence the idea post wanting to cap hp.

Personally i d much prefer that fb skills count for something so we get rid of these luck and HP issues.
id prefer by far to brag about being the best , not about being the luckiest.

PS: Everything I say here is assuming both sides have same amount of premium onliners and have same average levels.
I really dont believe fb skills have much to do with ffs, put a fully skilled fort fighter, up against a pure hp and see who wins...
;)
 
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DeletedUser16008

Theres a formula of some kind in the background here, has to be or if its pure luck then all the fort skills are a complete load of bull and in that case Inno have been lying for years about it just to sucker people into paying Nuggets to reskill etc & id like a refund please..

Personally i have a formula theory & im pretty sure its a lot to do with hp, if people wish to jump to conclusions about a rigged server then you can although it would be better to read the post properly than just assume.

If its about luck then maybe people would be better off wearing the luck kit...

I know It rankles me that zoe or OAN although they have only HP seem to dodge x4 more shots than I do with 120 dodge.. and no its regardless whether they stand out in the front line or not.

Depends how many battle you got to go through with things so skewed or "unlucky" before people begin to think naa F this i got better things to do with my time than spend all day walking or sleeping for 30 mins. Im about there and today although we lost the battle, had a blast for a change taking it to rd 52 for a real pleasant change.
 

DeletedUser

Miss B, you certainly do excel at childish posts. It's not as if I'm the only one that read Helen's post in that way.

I'll make 1 final attempt at being more clear. Though I have a suspicion that your only goal is to get me to waste time responding to you, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and respond. Also, I really don't want to dissect Helen's post anymore.

My comments about luck were only related to Helen's comments that the project has better hit and dodge rates and that "the server" favors the project. Hit and dodge rate is primarily determined by sector bonuses, that's why defenders will hit more, and why the GG stacking can skew battles so dramatically. After that fort battle skills play a minor role, and then it comes down to a roll of the dice. That's why I discounted reading "the server" as the luck factor.

It boils down to this: "The project always has a better hit and dodge rate regardless of whether they are attacking or defending. 'The server' favors the project." If you can't understand how people could read that as saying something is rigged, then I don't know what more to say.

From Neo:
(mods are always very lucky :D)
I have seen loads of people across multiple worlds complain that the mods are rigging things in their favor. That's how basically everyone I've chatted with took her comments. If that's not what she meant then great, I'm happy. We agree that that is ludicrous. I'm done talking about it.

there is a strong imbalance between the 2 forces EVEN when numbers or HP is somewhat even - reasons for this being many but the end point being there will be no equal battles no matter how hard we try cause the two forces are imbalanced beyond repair.
That is utter BS. If HP and numbers are equal, it then comes down to number of people online, strategy, players willingness to follow the strategy, fort guns equipped, and ever so slightly players fort battle skills. (And with GG stacking still around, number of GGs play huge role.) Number of people online is usually pretty even, from the battles I remember looking at if anything MC has had the advantage here (though I haven't looked at a ton of reports for this). It seems like there is balance on fort guns for both sides. The project seems to have a few more GGs, but the battles I've looked at are typically pretty close there.

As for strategy and following the strategy, there have been battles where each side has had an advantage here. I certainly wouldn't say that the project has been superior in this regard.

The last 2 maxed battles that MC has had have been won by the MC. Given that, how can you claim things are imbalanced beyond repair? I'd like to see HP be more balanced, but it sounds like some people will only think the world is balanced if MC wins 75% of their battles regardless of how many people show to the battles.
 
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DeletedUser16008

I don't why im bothering to get into this but ....

Look at the reports look at the figures over a number of battles its pretty clear.. Ive been playing forts since day 1 & know how they work and the usual outcome and why.

No attack will succeed if the def has = hp in the beginning of a battle unless its a mad flag rush hence the point of having extra spots for the attackers balance the factor of towers and walls in the first place and was always intended to have an advantage on hp, take that away you make things that much harder hence why they changed it from 128 vs 128 in the first place. & im not talking about smalls that are nearly impossible to defend thx to the GG

The last full battle was yesterday or as good as and by rd 5 the numbers were equal and the def had about 20k hp advantage by then.

The previous win was by flagrush and should never have been allowed to happen. No idea about the other your talking about.

that is all
 
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DeletedUser

yada yada yada

Ohh I am sure you weren't the only one who read it that way, lord knows what kind of paranoia you and a couple of your mod friends can whip up in a chat... you were however the only one to keep insisting that Helen is calling someone cheaters and claiming foul play despite being told otherwise, repeatedly!

That, as stated before, I find pathetic! :mad:

As for the rest I am done caring what you guys think - have fun and all that....
 

HelenBack

Well-Known Member
I'll make the main points bold so you can follow my points step by step... Hopefully this will make it clear to any noob that may be trying to read it.


No one has posted anything since the 3rd... Seems to me like people are giving up. Why?

I'd like to point out the last few "fuller" fort battles ( I left out Meh because it was an obvious lost cause ):

You can look at my previous post to see the battles I was referring to... Here's a link:
http://forum.the-west.net/showpost.php?p=574518&postcount=197


So... What does this show? The Project still outweighs us even when we do have the numbers. Even when we have the numbers advantage, we're decimated in 26-28 rounds. Even when we have the numbers advantage, the Project doesn't suffer heavy casualties like we do.

Need further proof? Look at the reports for each of those battles and compare the top defenders/attackers in "Damage Inflicted" as well as "Hit Count" and "Missed Shots".

Whether it be attacking or defending... "The server" favours The Project. (edit: This was to summarize the above information.)

Or do you still think it's balanced?
;)

And I'm done with trying to point out OBVIOUS imbalances in this world... It's also obvious that the Project are blind to these facts and we're just talking to a big stubborn wall that doesn't give a rats about having real battles that last past 30 rounds. You know... Ones that we may actually make a dent in your thick skulls... erm... hides. Or have you forgotten what it's like to have FULL battles that go the all 55 rounds with both sides down to hardly any HP? You know... CHALLENGING ones. Hmmm?
:rolleyes:
 

DeletedUser

ok, cant resist butting in, sigh.

There seems to be enough of you, adn there seems to be darn little to actually do in world 10 for most of you, sooooo

why not take one of teh zillion forts you guys own and literally stack the sides with the same (or apporpriate number as I am not a fort fighter) number and levels of players, heck you can probably find enough of you with exact smae builds and equipment as well.

you should be able to determine fairly well, wethere there is a server "stacking" advantage or at least if strategy has any real roll.

there are enough veteran players to organize such a thing for sure, consider it a challenge. Sure would be nice to see posts of such an event.
 

DeletedUser

Vic, I'd wager I would probably agree with you on most of the reasons why battles were won and lost. And, a large number of them would be HP. That's why I think it's wrong to say that the world is so imbalanced on other factors. If the HP were closer to even, the battles would likely be pretty competitive.

Miss B....ah never mind I've wasted enough time and won't fall for your trolling anymore.

Helen, glad to hear I misinterpreted your statement, and you don't think the server is really against you. I still say that the only real imbalance in the world is in HP (which unfortunately is an incredibly important one). I sure have forgotten what's it's like to have full battles, and there have only been a few that were really very interesting. I still don't see a good solution to the problem, though.....unless we get them to implement a soft cap on HP.
 

DeletedUser16008

Vic, I'd wager I would probably agree with you on most of the reasons why battles were won and lost. And, a large number of them would be HP. That's why I think it's wrong to say that the world is so imbalanced on other factors. If the HP were closer to even, the battles would likely be pretty competitive.

I sure have forgotten what's it's like to have full battles, and there have only been a few that were really very interesting. I still don't see a good solution to the problem, though.....unless we get them to implement a soft cap on HP.

Ive no doubt we would agree on many many battles outcomes but its not wrong to say there are other factors involved sometimes either. I think the main thing here is regardless of what our alliance is doing re attendance and attempting to stage better battles the result is time and time again coming out the same...

Last nights battle was a perfect reverse of the usual scenario in where the def had more hp to begin with & it was over very quickly. Its getting very easy to just look at an overview and predict the winner before it begins.

There isnt a solution to the problem never will be, the option is twofold everyone start munching on steroids and seriously that isnt going to happen or as you say nerf the hp situation, again never going to happen.

Incidentally ill risk an infraction here by saying Moderators using very high or ridiculous HP is pretty irresponsible as a player. I get they can do as they wish same as anyone but quite frankly it just shows to me a lack of consideration for the general playing population.. its pretty clear the hp amongst others is a factor in dulling the game, I would expect a champion to speak against that not just all do the exact opposite. Its also not just on one world they do this either and I could understand maybe on one but why repeat the thing to in my opinion ruin other worlds ?

I mean just for a second here tell me what is so sporting about having Zoe Cassidy 10k hp sitting on the flag ? :blink: Why not just make it xtxtx and Zoe or a couple of tank adven s end of flagrun problem we all know that.. You ever see people do that kind of thing 6 mths ago ? no of course not although it was an obvious tactic 2 years ago i just threw it away as lame and pointless.

Personally i think they have in the past year ruined a relatively good game and aspects like dueling & forts. The mentality of players has followed suit until all thats left is 30 rd waste of space engagements.

For a lot certainly regarding excitement and long or close battles they have messed around with it so much and allowed ... I cant call it abuse but certainly not as intended Uber Builds its become a sad shadow of its former quality.

Now some will say its a need to adapt change etc etc etc If players like it short n sweet up to them, but in all honesty forts were supposed to include everyone and favor no one.

Im kind of over this game these days anyway the shine went out a long while ago, If there were a world where there no goldens at all, capped hp etc and id go there but there isnt any chance of them looking at options that they can't sell for nuggets.

Oh im sure im wrong & cant find it but someone was saying they were considering changing the way battles are called... ie normal price for the first in a day then an increase in cost as more get called... i guess thats to stop multis or something ... but its full of holes and issues.. like I say could be BS but it wouldnt surprise me.

Oh and to the nooob who keeps giving me red feedback on every single mail i put in this forum regardless of what I post get a real life m8 i couldnt give a monkey about rep but if you had any cahonas youd sign your name ya yellow belly :p
 
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DeletedUser

Ive no doubt we would agree on many many battles outcomes but its not wrong to say there are other factors involved sometimes either. I think the main thing here is regardless of what our alliance is doing re attendance and attempting to stage better battles the result is time and time again coming out the same...

There are definitely other factors that come into play, but I don't think the world is really imbalanced on the other factors. Given even HP, I imagine the battles would be pretty even. Possibly more so when the GG stacking is removed, though that's going to make the tanks even tougher to deal with. I'm looking forward to the removal of the GG stack, but dreading the inevitable immortality of tanks without it.
 

DeletedUser

There are definitely other factors that come into play, but I don't think the world is really imbalanced on the other factors. Given even HP, I imagine the battles would be pretty even. Possibly more so when the GG stacking is removed, though that's going to make the tanks even tougher to deal with. I'm looking forward to the removal of the GG stack, but dreading the inevitable immortality of tanks without it.

Perhaps when the GG stacking goes away, some of those 'uber tanks' will respec a bit. I know i for one am seriously considering respeccing, and i only have around 6600 hp atm. Gets boring after awhile doing nothing but sleeping & fort battling. I believe alot of the tanks were created out of necessity to try & counteract the GG stacking bonus. Once that is gone i personally believe we will see alot of changes in the max hp on many players. Just a thought. :)
 
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DeletedUser16970

I don't like tanks and i wish they didn't exist. Sounds hypocritical coming from someone who has 10K on two worlds but I had my reasons.

w12 - (Re: "mods doing it on other worlds") my alliance is out HP'd by the enemies and because the GG situation is out of hand. We went head to head with a sector stacked with 26 goldens yesterday. I took 17 shots and lost 9289 HP in one round for an average damage of 546 per hit ("an adventurer" has hit you for 718 damage). As for w10, it's my way of dealing with MC's counter attacks. If we push our own attack and lose, i want to be able to show up for a defense two hours later with decent HP. Right or wrong, I don't care. We haven't seen any counters there lately (because you won't let us get an attack in?) so before you tell me how I should build my character: I can't afford a respec there now.

I'll be relieved once the stacking bonus is gone and would happily detank myself (like rusty poined out), but am i going to do it just so the enemies can get the upper hand when it comes to HP? :no:
 

DeletedUser16008

Don't buy into any of that Zoe sorry there was never a need for another huge tank on w10 not to 10k we never even had them until project formed, far as the constant battle its down to the fact that for nigh on a month project in the beginning did constant attacks, beefed up to ott level nothing to do with enjoying good battles and we are now where we are .. your using lame excuses and im not telling you how to build just suggesting some would say theres a responsibility there to act responsibly to enhance the game and keep it interesting not like a acting like a noob and making things more boring than fishing. Any idiot can pour it into hp I would expect a bit of a deeper consideration from those in positions that are supposed to represent the better part of the community.

Latest battle Raccooneers

11 GG vs 18GG
Players 50 Vs 42

H.p. 128.182 (94%) vs 137.585 (99%)



Seriously what is the point ? the only reason ill be in any small now is purely for some free xp i dont care if i have full hp or 50 hp anymore it makes no difference.

Soon as the stacking has gone things will not change, the beefcakes are here to stay, forts will remain boring and im not going to say unbalanced because it just seems people don't get it or think its smart or something.

Good game ruined by stupid updates and extreme play mostly down to idiots who can't play games without having the "cheats" switched on in order to make them feel good about themselves rather than saying no we arnt gonna go the lemming route, for a change we are going to realize things have gotten worse and we arnt going to make that problem bigger...

This game is a typical mirror of the way things go in the real world, yet its a game, its not real and I didnt start playing it to exploit every angle possible to get an advantage. I play for fun and a challenge with comparable opponents, surprising how many cannot handle that. People are so short sighted and miss the point of playing a game in the first place. Im sorry for those who have been sucked in and cant see it & if you follow the herd your part of the herd, adding to the problem and just as much to blame.

Sorry but this game is messed up, increasingly skewed and the updates just intend to make money not enhance the gameplay for the majority rather the minority that are prepared to spend nuggets ( great if they come free) and follow the template like lemmings.
 

DeletedUser16970

Don't buy into any of that Zoe [...] your using lame excuses.

I never expected you to.

And this is where i'm going to take Neo's advice and lead by example by not bringing up everything i think you and your side has done wrong (especially when i was on the losing side). And no, I'm not going to call people idiots for not having a build i approve of either.
:p
 

DeletedUser9470

I never expected you to.

And this is where i'm going to take Neo's advice and lead by example by not bringing up everything i think you and your side has done wrong (especially when i was on the losing side). And no, I'm not going to call people idiots for not having a build i approve of either.
:p

for a second I thought you were going to ask me to become a builder!
:unsure:
 

DeletedUser1121

Guys and gals,

This thread isn't about moderators. All the moderators who play this world aren't moderating here.
Please treat them as players instead of moderators here. The moderators that play this world are free to do so as they wish, as long as they don't break the forum rules or game rules which count for every player. If you feel a player has broken any rules, please create an ingame ticket.

If there are going to be any posts about moderators ruining your game, they will be deleted and you will get infracted. This is not to protect the moderators. If you wish to address them, please do so by referring to them by their name instead of their job.

Any questions? Please sent me a private message.

Desi.
 

HelenBack

Well-Known Member
I think you may as well just close this thread... The Project can't see past their greed for forts. They say they want good fort battles, but their actions say the opposite. If they really cared, this issue would have been resolved a long time ago before our side got to the point of not caring either.

Let's face it... W10 will never be anywhere near as fun as it used to be. End of...
 
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