DeletedUser
A 171% difference doesn't sound like a small deal in my book. Besides, why would you stick with pure hp and die in a few rounds at point when you could dodge virtually every shot that came your way for the whole battle?
DeletedUser
Um... Haven't I said in the second post in this thread to exclude leadership from the proposed new system? Do it then you won't be dealing with things like 171%.
DeletedUser
lol that's not a bad thing....that was just based on peter's numbers, 49 and 144, which I used to illustrate that pure hp isn't that great once you factor in ^0.5 bonuses.
DeletedUser30224
so in the end which skills are we upgrading to ^0.5 ?
DeletedUser
all fort battle skills would be upgraded to ^0.5
DeletedUser23629
What about just changing that fort battle skills don't go up exponentially? Seems like a simpler change and just as effective.
DeletedUser
Sorry, but ^1 is still an exponent 
Assuming your attack/defense bonus is a reasonable approximate for your % chance of hitting/dodging, having an attack/defense bonus of 300 is a bit unrealistic....
Assuming your attack/defense bonus is a reasonable approximate for your % chance of hitting/dodging, having an attack/defense bonus of 300 is a bit unrealistic....
DeletedUser23629
That's what I'm getting at. What you are suggesting will be just as ridiculous to the players who play the game more than just for fort battles. Isn't the whole concept of a battle based on everyone being capable of participating and having a chance to do well?
Mathematically, the whole formula could be changed so it's not by exponents at all.
And you do realize those "numbers" aren't a percentage to land or dodge shots, right? So even if those numbers grow in relation to everyone else, it doesn't make a difference.
For example, and alternative formula could be...
To Dodge = [(Hiding*0.05) + (Dodging*0.05) + (Leadership*0.025)]
To Aim = [(Hiding*0.05) + (Aiming*0.05) + (Leadership*0.025)]
Obviously different numbers and things like that could be changed. But this allows for bonus's to go up one for every 20 skill points. You could make the number anything you want, and make certain skills more important than others. Since SP's on aiming and dodging seem pretty important for landing hits and dodging hits, you'd think they would get a higher value.
It's only an idea, and I'm sure there's something major I'm missing which makes this silly.
Mathematically, the whole formula could be changed so it's not by exponents at all.
And you do realize those "numbers" aren't a percentage to land or dodge shots, right? So even if those numbers grow in relation to everyone else, it doesn't make a difference.
For example, and alternative formula could be...
To Dodge = [(Hiding*0.05) + (Dodging*0.05) + (Leadership*0.025)]
To Aim = [(Hiding*0.05) + (Aiming*0.05) + (Leadership*0.025)]
Obviously different numbers and things like that could be changed. But this allows for bonus's to go up one for every 20 skill points. You could make the number anything you want, and make certain skills more important than others. Since SP's on aiming and dodging seem pretty important for landing hits and dodging hits, you'd think they would get a higher value.
It's only an idea, and I'm sure there's something major I'm missing which makes this silly.
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DeletedUser
Yep you are, with no diminishing returns there'd be no reason for any fort skill but leadership.
DeletedUser9470
i havent got a clue wth u are talking about.
all i care for is that skills be made a lot more important to create a variety of different fort fight builds rather than this ghastly hp build.
secondly, to address the issue of lower levels being as good as higher levels? wtf is that about? whoever mentioned this is on another planet.
removing incentive to gain levels is plain ridiculous.
simply put, if i have x amount of points in attack then i want that to beat an x-1 defender and be beaten by an x+1 defender.
this adresses all issues, if the defender is 30 levels lower but has more SPs then he wins, if he is 30 levels higher and has less sps then he loses. as simple as that.
this idea would bring a variety of builds
defense aim
defense dodge
attack aim
attack dodge and loads more.
plus this would also advantage most people as most have not stacked hp but spread their points around.
talking about what formula it has to be is absolutely pointless imo.
its up to devs to do the job they are paid to do.
all i care for is that skills be made a lot more important to create a variety of different fort fight builds rather than this ghastly hp build.
secondly, to address the issue of lower levels being as good as higher levels? wtf is that about? whoever mentioned this is on another planet.
removing incentive to gain levels is plain ridiculous.
simply put, if i have x amount of points in attack then i want that to beat an x-1 defender and be beaten by an x+1 defender.
this adresses all issues, if the defender is 30 levels lower but has more SPs then he wins, if he is 30 levels higher and has less sps then he loses. as simple as that.
this idea would bring a variety of builds
defense aim
defense dodge
attack aim
attack dodge and loads more.
plus this would also advantage most people as most have not stacked hp but spread their points around.
talking about what formula it has to be is absolutely pointless imo.
its up to devs to do the job they are paid to do.
DeletedUser23629
That's why with a different formula, you can manipulate it anyway you want. My point was why have it exponential. Seems to be less dramatic to just remove that and see what we have. In the formula I used as an example, leadership is worth half as much. So it takes 40 SP in leadership to get +1, instead of 20 SP.
Yes I realize that formula is not what we want, but I was just showing a different way to approach the problem. Maybe something along these lines...
Dodging: [(Hiding*0.05) + (Dodging*0.05) + (leadership*0.015)] + Random Start Value (0-8)
Aiming: [(Stamina*0.05) + (Aiming*0.05) + (leadership*0.015)] + Random Start Value (0-8)
Maybe some mathematician can fix this for us?
Personally, I think making the fort skills grow exponentially is the biggest problem. Even if they do become more important, why would I want more than 50 in each one? Everyone will still be tanks with roughly 43-60 in the other skills, and the rest on HP.
I guess the question is, do you think fort skills aren't important enough or do you think that the exponent part is the problem? If you think they aren't important, then why does everyone like sitting on a tower?
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DeletedUser
if you really want to still have a majority of your hp in health, be my guest and see how that works out for you. Not everyone has 13k hp....
http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=x^.4,+x^.5+from+1+to+200
http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=x^.4,+x^.5+from+1+to+200
DeletedUser
Dodging virtually every shot is balanced?
DeletedUser
This formula change will definitely make the hp build a lot less effective at hitting/dodging than attack/defense builds. It's not a guess by any means, though the only unknown will be how many people skill for which build.
edit: Elmyr, 'dodging virtually every shot' is a bit of a misnomer. That's based on current bonuses. Not many people reach 120 and under the new system, everyone who skills for attack/defense will have higher bonuses, so the super-dodger would be balanced by the super-hitter.
edit: Elmyr, 'dodging virtually every shot' is a bit of a misnomer. That's based on current bonuses. Not many people reach 120 and under the new system, everyone who skills for attack/defense will have higher bonuses, so the super-dodger would be balanced by the super-hitter.
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DeletedUser
The attacker on the ground specced for attacks won't compare to a defender specced for defending on his class tower.
DeletedUser
Which is why attackers outnumber defenders in full fort battles.
DeletedUser
RIGHT NOW it's hard to win an attack. You're proposing a change in which the sector bonuses will be applied on top of an even bigger base bonus giving defenders an even bigger advantage, while the attacker's numbers advantage won't change.
Defenders don't need more help.
DeletedUser
assuming there'll be a bunch of lv 120 defenders running around.....
DeletedUser23629
Um on world 11 alone there are 220 players that are level 120. I'd guess other older worlds aren't much different.
You try to convince new players to participate in battles when they can't hit or dodge anything. Let me know how that goes.
You try to convince new players to participate in battles when they can't hit or dodge anything. Let me know how that goes.