has affirmative action gone too far?

[DeletedUser]

I don't know what your talking about

Why does employment lead to gangs, music and trailer parks?

With civil strife and disenchantment abound during the 1960's, African American street gangs formed in large urban cities such as Chicago, Los Angeles and New York. New York street gangs formed under names like the Savage Skulls, La Familia and Savage Nomads. Another New York Street gang during this time known as the Rampers has recently realized the infamy of one its members who is contemporarily known as Sammy "the Bull" Gravano. By the late 1960's and early 1970's, Crips gangs in Los Angeles were so violent and entrenched in ghetto neighborhoods that rival Bloods gangs formed to challenge the strength of the Crips. Meanwhile, Chicago experienced the creation of the Black Gangsters, Devil's Disciples and Black P Stone Rangers, to name a few. The late 1970's and early 1980's paved the way for creation of national gang alliances, expansion of national drug networks and the glorification of gangsters with movies like Colors and Scarface.

source
http://www.gripe4rkids.org/his.html

 

[nashy19]

With civil strife and disenchantment abound during the 1960's, African American street gangs formed in large urban cities such as Chicago, Los Angeles and New York. New York street gangs formed under names like the Savage Skulls, La Familia and Savage Nomads. Another New York Street gang during this time known as the Rampers has recently realized the infamy of one its members who is contemporarily known as Sammy "the Bull" Gravano. By the late 1960's and early 1970's, Crips gangs in Los Angeles were so violent and entrenched in ghetto neighborhoods that rival Bloods gangs formed to challenge the strength of the Crips. Meanwhile, Chicago experienced the creation of the Black Gangsters, Devil's Disciples and Black P Stone Rangers, to name a few. The late 1970's and early 1980's paved the way for creation of national gang alliances, expansion of national drug networks and the glorification of gangsters with movies like Colors and Scarface.

source
http://www.gripe4rkids.org/his.html

Now your making less sense than before, but at least I can understand you. However I doubt I will ever understand how a law that we have assumed keeps unemployment low would lead to civil war or "strife".

Your errors add up like a math sum that's rounded after every stage.

 

[DeletedUser]

and we probubly would not have all these so called "white trash" people around now would we

So are you saying it would be better without affirmative action laws because then there would be less unemployed white people? God forbid a white person be unemployed!

If a minority person is better qualified for a job then they should get that job and Affirmitive Action laws help to ensure that minorities are given that chance, because yes there are still many idiots out there that judge others by the color of their skin.

So sometimes a minority will get a job over a more qualified "white" person because of these laws and it is a little unfair, but I would rather it be a little unfair to the majority 5% of the time than very unfair to the minority 95% of the time.

 

[DeletedUser]

and we probubly would not have all these so called "white trash" people around now would we

I don't think that affirmative action has anything to do with making "so called "white trash" people" live the way they do. In many, if not most, cases, there are jobs available (to people of all groups); the problem is that too many of them are menial jobs that a lot of people refuse to do. They may not pay well, but 2 or 3 part time jobs can pay for the basics in most cases.

I sometimes think that the American Dream is partially responsible for a lot of our problems. Everybody grows up hearing that they can do anything they want if they work hard at it, but we can't all be the best. I admit that I'm one of those people who would rather be unemployed than to clean other people's toilets, but I've been fortunate enough to never have to make that decision.

 

[DeletedUser]

or gang violence, or violent Rap music

since the majority of gangs are minorities

You're making assumptions, not stating facts.

http://ojjdp.ncjrs.org/pubs/96natyouthgangsrvy/surv_6c.html

The source has more details and other information.

 

[DeletedUser]

So are you saying it would be better without affirmative action laws because then there would be less unemployed white people? God forbid a white person be unemployed!

If a minority person is better qualified for a job then they should get that job and Affirmitive Action laws help to ensure that minorities are given that chance, because yes there are still many idiots out there that judge others by the color of their skin.

So sometimes a minority will get a job over a more qualified "white" person because of these laws and it is a little unfair, but I would rather it be a little unfair to the majority 5% of the time than very unfair to the minority 95% of the time.

but if people want to be equal they must be fair to 100% of the people not just 5% or 95%

 

[DeletedUser]

You're making assumptions, not stating facts.

http://ojjdp.ncjrs.org/pubs/96natyouthgangsrvy/surv_6c.html

The source has more details and other information.

your diagrams only make my argument stronger you know that right

 

[DeletedUser]

but if people want to be equal they must be fair to 100% of the people not just 5% or 95%

That will be great when we live in a perfect society where every person is judged by their merits rather than their ethnic background.

 

[nashy19]

but if people want to be equal they must be fair to 100% of the people not just 5% or 95%

Yes because either we cure everybody with AID's or we cure none of them, that's how the world works

 

[DeletedUser]

your diagrams only make my argument stronger you know that right

Stronger than utterly ineffective? Like I said, your racist suppositions are incorrect. View the source for more information.

 

[DeletedUser]

Gizmo, I think you're missing a major point in your argument.

It may be true that the majority of gang members are members of some minority group, but the "majority" of people here are members of some minority group. If you look at any one group, the percentage of members is less than or equal to the percentage of white members.

What you're saying is the equivalent to saying that white sheep give more wool than black sheep do because there's more white wool. If the number of black and white sheep were equal then the amount of black and white wool would be too. The fact is that people who are angry, repressed and treated badly/unfairly are more likely to turn to violence and/or lives of crime. It has nothing to do with their color or ethnicity.

 

[DeletedUser]

For the moment I'm going to ignore Gizmo's latent racism that has cropped up in severl threads. What we have gotten around to was touched upon in the "Nature Vs Nurture" thread. Arguing that gangs are populated by mostly minorities is not false. HOWEVER gangs and organized crime have always been the realm of the oppressed. Early street gangs and organized crime in the US (Circa 18060's) Were mostly made up of Irish immigrants (on the East Coast) and Chinese (on the West). On the East Coast the Irish were over taken by the Italians the Jews and more recently Asian gangs. These people had limited access to education and economic opportunity so crime was an attractive alternative (as well as feeding a need for revenge.) It was not because these people were inherently violent or immoral they were pushed there in order to survive. The same rules still apply working class minorities in concentrated low income areas lack economic and educational opportunities that in turn continues to feed the cycle. Affirmative action, while flawed, tries to address this and help to alleviate the issue.

 

[DeletedUser]

Gizmo is completely racist. He blames minorities for him not getting financial aid to go to college, he has made racist comments about Obama, he has made assumptions based on stereotypes in this very thread about minorities.

Gangs have been in existence for as long as there have been inhabitants of this world. The word thug dates back to India in the year 1200 AD and it refers to a gang of criminals (Thugz) that roamed the country pillaging towns in their course. These Thugz had their own symbols, hand signs, rituals and slang. In the United States, we grew up with tales of our own form of thugs like pirates and gangsters, therefore, gangs, undoubtedly, are not a new concept.

Throughout the 1800's, Americans were fascinated with gangs and gangsters. The James Gang, Billy the Kid and other outlaws, legend has it, ruled the Wild West. As the late 1800's roared in, the new generation of gangs and gangsters was created out of the new immigrants. Irish gangs like the Whyos, Dead Rabbits and Plug Uglies, and Jewish gangs like the Monk Eastman Gang terrorized New York City streets. The most notorious gang during this era formed in New York City during the late 1890's and early 1900's. This gang, called the Five Points Gang, because of its home turf being situated in the Five Points (Bowery) Section of Lower Manhattan, would change the mold of the American outlaw forever.

http://www.gripe4rkids.org/his.html

Funny how Gizmo quoted the same site I used yet failed to post anything about the true origins of gangs. Let's just forget about the Irish, Jewish and Italian gangs that were prolific in America in the 19th century. Obviously minorities thought up gangs in the 1960's all by themselves.

Honestly Gizmo, if you are going to use a website as a reference then you should probably read the entire thing. At the very least you should make sure that what you are referencing is not just one small piece of the puzzle to further your racist agenda.

 

[nashy19]

I don't know why random quotes about gangs are being thrown out. It went from more jobs causing "white trash", to gang history (while still quoting the employment related posts).

I just guessed he watched a documentary and was really proud of it.

 

[DeletedUser8950]

What you're saying is the equivalent to saying that white sheep give more wool than black sheep do because there's more white wool. If the number of black and white sheep were equal then the amount of black and white wool would be too. The fact is that people who are angry, repressed and treated badly/unfairly are more likely to turn to violence and/or lives of crime. It has nothing to do with their color or ethnicity.

-Artemis Gordon

That bolded bit about sums it up. Blacks have been oppressed for years and trust me to some extent still are today, though not nearly as much as they used to be.

At the end of the day, anyone who's willing to make any sort of judgment on anyone on anything to do with their appearance (including skin colour) honestly don't know the first thing about life...

...though I don't want to get into a racism debate, no good will come out of it.

So let's err, try to leave this in the past.

 

[DeletedUser]

now lets got into slavery since it is kind of on the same subject.

should I be blamed for something that happened 100 years ago because of people that were white and owned slaves. and it was black people who first sold the black slaves. Americans was just another customer.


so I ask you should America have taken the full responsability for slavory in America. now im not saying slavory was a good thing. and if I was around in that time I would be against it.

 

[DeletedUser]

Sorry, but what does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

 

[DeletedUser]

Sorry, but what does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

what does the price of tea in china have to do with what the topic is

 

[nashy19]

Sorry, but what does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

Well you see.. oil prices are on the rise.

 

[DeletedUser]

slavery might not be a good thing but spell check is. And if you are trying to get at the whole reparation issue it boils down to broken promises. Ain't nobody ever got their 40 Acres and a mule.