Government Run Health Care

[DeletedUser]

Umm, Government can provide tax incentives, subsidies towards company's providing health care at reduced costs or to low-income families.

Theres ways for the government to create more access without getting involved directly. Keep in mind, they take a lot of money from any company that operates in the US.

Money is what motivates anyone.

 

[DeletedUser]

Name one government run agency or organization that operates soundly and is easy to deal with Adelei?

Let's see...there is the utilities. Ask people from California how they liked it when their utilities privatized...
There are basic services like rescue, police, etc. Remember the days when fire trucks were privatized? If you didn't pay their fee, they'd watch your house burn down...
Road construction.
Garbage removal.
Compare the costs of Blackwater to our men and women in uniform. You tell me which is more efficient in times of war.

That's what I can think of off the top of my head.

 

[DeletedUser]

Money is what motivates anyone.

There's that sad little point of view again!

 

[DeletedUser]

Edit: Oh for God's sake, universal right? You should receive free health care? No no, I get it, some people actually believe that. Who the hell pays the doctors/nurses/orderlies/janitors etc etc in this crazy talk fantasy land?

The people does. Through taxes. Self-financing, and a small capped bill towards people whom actualy use the services.

What if the government fails? What if they can't get you the money when you need it? And I'm not saying that you should have to pay for it, but it is the most reliable way to get healthcare, you have the money, you have the surgery. There can be help for poorer people, who couldn't afford necessary medical expences, but I just don't feel comfortable with the government running it, after what happened with Canada.

What if, what if, what if. Irrelevant.
Who gets you the money?
None. The damn service is pre-paid through taxes. If you need it, you get it.
The LEAST reliable way for the average Joe is to PAY for healthcare through hard cash or insurance. How many times have you not heard of people being screwed by their insurance company? If you need urgent surgery, you get priority over less urgent cases. If that isn't good enough for you, use a private alternative for quicker treatment.

What has indeed happened to Canada, what is this horrible scandal you keep speaking about? The only example so far is vague to state it mildly.

 

[DeletedUser13682]

Really, what I'm mostly concerned with is government run health care getting tied up in red tape, and being so bogged down, that people who would have been able to get services in private healthcare, do not get them. America is not the best place for government run health care, there's just too much beurocracy.

 

[DeletedUser]

Really, what I'm mostly concerned with is government run health care getting tied up in red tape, and being so bogged down, that people who would have been able to get services in private healthcare, do not get them. America is not the best place for government run health care, there's just too much beurocracy.

Well, then fix the red tape issue.
Whilst I agree this is a problem in any gouverment institution, steps can be taken to get rid of unecessary paperwork and focus on treatment.

I'd rather take red tape over being refused treatment at the closest hospital due to having the wrong insurance company when I urgently need treatment.

 

[DeletedUser]

Garbage Removal is private.

Road Construction is private.

Utilities are private.

(all based on the Atlanta, GA area)

Cambridge Police are arresting people in their own homes, rescue? You mean like in Katrina? That was awesome. Brings up another-the army corps of engineers?

As far as Blackwater to the US Military? Which receives a higher budget? Which receives multi-million dollar equipment? Which actually fights the war and who provides private security?

My guess is you live in California right? How are those state tax returns coming?

John Rose-what portion of your income do you give to taxes?

 

[DeletedUser]

No health insurance = No health insurance fraud!

 

[DeletedUser13682]

Well, then fix the red tape issue.

If only it were that easy. America has had red tape issues for years, and they won't be going bye bye anytime soon. And having to wait years for a necessary surgery is usually the same thing as being denied surgery for having the wrong insurance, you would be dead because your heart surgery didn't pass through fast enough. That's just one example though

 

[DeletedUser]

If only it were that easy. America has had red tape issues for years, and they won't be going bye bye anytime soon. And having to wait years for a necessary surgery is usually the same thing as being denied surgery for having the wrong insurance, you would be dead because your heart surgery didn't pass through fast enough. That's just one example though

With the promise of a new reform this is a chance to get it right.
Noone should be denied healthcare, idealisticly speaking.
Whatever system you choose, some will not get the treatment they want and need.

Your main fear is the red tape though, so with the premise that this issue would be fixed if the gouverments ran the healthcare; would you still oppose the state handling healthcare, if so; why?

 

[DeletedUser13682]

I would not be opposed to government run healthcare if it could be efficient enough to provide everyone the care they needed, but that is very unlikely to happen. Unfortunately, that is a what if question, and one that is unlikey to happen. It's more likely that almost noone will get any healthcare at all, or it would push the country even farther into debt.

 

[DeletedUser]

I would not be opposed to government run healthcare if it could be efficient enough to provide everyone the care they needed, but that is very unlikely to happen. Unfortunately, that is a what if question, and one that is unlikey to happen. It's more likely that almost noone will get any healthcare at all, or it would push the country even farther into debt.

Positive change does not come about with such a negative attitude.
The "I can't"'s are what is holding back change needed all over the world.
If the US is an example of anything, it is that nothing is impossible.

 

[DeletedUser]

John Rose-

You tear a ligament in your knee. You are an active individual. There are 2 procedures you can do, you can have a filet cut done, and recovery time is 6-8 months, at a cost of around 6,000. Or you can have arthriscopic surgery done which is around 18,000.

Government says the choice is yours, but they are only covering the 6,000 dollar costs since its still the same.

In the US, you have a policy, and that policy is good based on the coverage you agree on. With the US Government, that would not be the case. Legislation would effect your coverage, and whats good today may not be good next week. Your payment is given through taxes, so you pay whether you like it or not. They decide to increase-again-what is your recourse?

You think you were wrongfully denied a claim. In the US, you can sue the insurance company. You cannot sue the federal government in the same way.

More than likely-you'll get an appeal process, that would be a slow journey to which more times than not-they won't decide in your favor because they don't have to.

 

[DeletedUser13682]

I'm not saying anything is impossible, I am saying that it is extremely difficult for the US to make government run health care efficient enough. There just isn't enough initiative to make it possible.

 

[DeletedUser14006]

I work within the NHS trust in the UK and can honestly say whilst a lot of stuff is not going right at the moment, e.g. overspending and whatever, other things are on the up, waiting times for operations are at an all time low and all things considered I think they are doing a fantastic job!

Thumbs up for a goverment run health care system, a little out of everybodys salary should be more than enough to sustain the % of people who require its use.

On the downside, without the private health care sector there would have been no basis for John Q, brilliant Denzel Washington film highlighting the problem with health care insurance, and the apparent lack of it in a lot of cases.

 

[DeletedUser]

John Rose-

You tear a ligament in your knee. You are an active individual. There are 2 procedures you can do, you can have a filet cut done, and recovery time is 6-8 months, at a cost of around 6,000. Or you can have arthriscopic surgery done which is around 18,000.

Government says the choice is yours, but they are only covering the 6,000 dollar costs since its still the same.

In the US, you have a policy, and that policy is good based on the coverage you agree on. With the US Government, that would not be the case. Legislation would effect your coverage, and whats good today may not be good next week. Your payment is given through taxes, so you pay whether you like it or not. They decide to increase-again-what is your recourse?

You think you were wrongfully denied a claim. In the US, you can sue the insurance company. You cannot sue the federal government in the same way.

More than likely-you'll get an appeal process, that would be a slow journey to which more times than not-they won't decide in your favor because they don't have to.

And the insurance company could not stall and out-lawyer me?
Because they are not filthy rich, or could even buy me off with a settlement?
The gouverment should provide you with what you need. The cost isn't an issue. As for the options you give me; I don't know the implications of either one.

If the state "only" covered 6k, that would still benefit all those whom can't afford insurance, nor can they cough up 6k on demand. In addition it saves them from putting themselves in debt in order to get the treatment they need.

 

[DeletedUser]

Garbage Removal is private.

Road Construction is private.

Utilities are private.

(all based on the Atlanta, GA area)

Cambridge Police are arresting people in their own homes, rescue? You mean like in Katrina? That was awesome. Brings up another-the army corps of engineers?

As far as Blackwater to the US Military? Which receives a higher budget? Which receives multi-million dollar equipment? Which actually fights the war and who provides private security?

And so? What is your point?

You seem to want to try to focus this discussion as talking about how bad government is at doing things but you want to veto any discussion about how screwed up our current system is... That's unrealistic and dishonest.

No, the government isn't perfect. Nor are corporations...by any means. And, the fact is that our current health care system is messed up...badly.

The nature of a for-profit system is that it will cater to the rich, screw the poor and jack up the prices as much as possible as long as it is profitable to do so (can't jack them up too much or you lose too many paying customers). A for-profit system is only more efficient as long as what they are selling is highly profitable. Yes, the private drug companies have made great strides in creating drugs to give a guy a big errection, to clear up one's skin and to make people "happy" under the influence of drugs. Creating drugs to cheaply fight HIV AIDS so that developing nations that are the worst hit by the HIV AIDS crisis can afford them? Not so much.

So, again, no...I don't think that private companies, by virtue of them not being the government, are somehow magically going to be more efficient or better run. There are way too many examples throughout history of a government run facility that was privitized, and the people were screwed for it. Just ask the people of Peru what they think of the privatization of their water utilities....

And, no, I don't live in Peru, either.

BTW, do you work for a company? How do you like your 401k, your raise or your bonus this year. You asked about my income tax return so I just wanted to remind you that a bad economy hits more than just the government...

 

[DeletedUser]

I'm not saying anything is impossible, I am saying that it is extremely difficult for the US to make government run health care efficient enough. There just isn't enough initiative to make it possible.

And with the "it can't be done" position where will you get the initiative to get it done?

Is it to hard to work towards a better tomorrow?
Hah!
"What's hard is easy, and the impossible merely takes a bit longer."

 

[DeletedUser]

You tear a ligament in your knee. You are an active individual. There are 2 procedures you can do, you can have a filet cut done, and recovery time is 6-8 months, at a cost of around 6,000. Or you can have arthriscopic surgery done which is around 18,000.

Government says the choice is yours, but they are only covering the 6,000 dollar costs since its still the same.

Funny, my insurance company does that to me all of the time. Especially when it comes to perscription drugs.

 

[DeletedUser13682]

I'm not saying it's to hard to work toward a better future, I am saying the American government does not have much initiative to make anything better. I would do anything to make anything a lot better.