Dueller class needs to nerfed.

Bucksnort Hawkins

Well-Known Member
And criticals of 2500 are rookie numbers tbh :p.
All you are doing with bull**** comments like this is supporting my initial argument/statement. Thanks?

It's obvious all you play are duellers and hence see no issues with the current state of affairs. Strangely, you still agree with everything Raider is pointing out. Whatevs.

Go back to playing your OP dueller with your Union Officer set. Don't even pretend you don't either.
 

Sjeesje

Member
All you are doing with bull**** comments like this is supporting my initial argument/statement. Thanks?

It's obvious all you play are duellers and hence see no issues with the current state of affairs. Strangely, you still agree with everything Raider is pointing out. Whatevs.

Go back to playing your OP dueller with your Union Officer set. Don't even pretend you don't either.
Mate, I'm a dueler on one out of the 7-ish worlds I play (not even actively) and I don't even care about it, my main account is a worker (tank btw) and I agree that the worker class is also pretty overpowered (if we are talking about the damage).
I indeed own the union set and I was dealing that much damage that it wasn't even fun anymore, that's why I skilled back to HP.

By the way you're being pretty ignorant saying I'm okay with the current state of affairs as I mentioned multiple times already that the damage formula is completely outdated and has te be reworked.
You are also completely ignoring every fact I have given to you pointing out that it's a general damage problem. Neither have I ever tried to not support your initial statement, that's what you make out of it.

And the fact I said 2,5k crits are rookie numbers is because on .nl (pretty sure not the only server) there have already been multiple occasions when somebody hit a +4k hit and most of the crits are +3k.
 

RaiderTr

Well-Known Member
Ok hear me out:

I'm a 143 lvl Soldier with Upgraded Livingston clothing + "Nugget bear" set + Zapata weapons and I have 19k Hp with all this.

So.. if a similar level Full Leaders--t & Charisma Dueler with Mosey set hits me without any "Sector Damage bonus" crap, it's about 700 damage.
But if it was a Union officer damage, it'd be around 1.4-1.5k. Thats frickin DOUBLE!
If that doesn't explain how borken the Damage formula (and Union Office bs) is, idk what will.

Even if Inno decides to remove the "Sector Damage Bonus" amplifying part of the Formula only, it will make a big difference. (It won't really effect Tanks as Hp already kills the amplifying part.)
Union would still hit around 1k (more or less) I believe, which is still an issue, but much less of an issue.

there have already been multiple occasions when somebody hit a +4k hit and most of the crits are +3k
Happens everywhere. Ez against big hp. No matter if you have "Nugget bear" or not.
 

Tucker Blue

Well-Known Member
i fort battled for over a year as a premium adv and never once ghosted. NEVER. Not one single round. As a premium player i had a "50% chance after round 2" to ghost.



My suggestion would be ACTUALLY make it 50%.

ed* - my point being that if it was 50% that would help counteract all the attacking upgrades and buffs previous posts mention.
 
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Bucksnort Hawkins

Well-Known Member
Alright, so, when you say we need to nerf the duller class, how would you propose we do that?
So out of curiosity is this overall issue even in front of etriel or any devs? I think myself and other players would like to know before the new world is opened. If this new world comes around it'll all simply be a repeat of worlds like Houston in the end where the side with the most Damagers wins and can't be overcome.

Any rational person would have to question the direction the game is going in and why it's worth investment of money in any capacity.
 

asdf124

Well-Known Member
By the way you're being pretty ignorant saying I'm okay with the current state of affairs as I mentioned multiple times already that the damage formula is completely outdated and has te be reworked.
You are also completely ignoring every fact I have given to you pointing out that it's a general damage problem. Neither have I ever tried to not support your initial statement, that's what you make out of it.
I have to correct you on something, it isn't the damage formula that should be reworked. It is actually the resistance formula.

Reworking the resistance formula is more effective than reworking the damage formula.

But yes, it has to be reworking either one but I don't think we need both at the moment.

Reworking the formula to improve resistance effect is a lot better than reworking the damage formula.

https://forum.the-west.net/index.php?threads/change-resistance-to-damage-percentage-reduction.58375/#post-769332
 

RaiderTr

Well-Known Member
it isn't the damage formula that should be reworked
Doesn't change the fact that Leadership formula is very cheesy and abusable. Full Charisma-Leadership and a proper gear, voila, ez pz 1k+ Dmg per hit.

That being said, if they could be bothered, we could start by changing the way Resistance works first, to not overkill things like Inno loves to do.

Besides, currently "High" Resistance has side effects like discouraging Newbies to joining Battles as well.
 

Bucksnort Hawkins

Well-Known Member
Thanks and respect to those (well, most of you) contributing to this issue. It's clear we are simply spinning wheels uselessly. If you join J-world, just don't be foolish enough to choose any other class besides Dueler.

You'll be wasting your time otherwise.

If I could close this thread I would.
 

asdf124

Well-Known Member
Doesn't change the fact that Leadership formula is very cheesy and abusable. Full Charisma-Leadership and a proper gear, voila, ez pz 1k+ Dmg per hit.

That being said, if they could be bothered, we could start by changing the way Resistance works first, to not overkill things like Inno loves to do.

Besides, currently "High" Resistance has side effects like discouraging Newbies to joining Battles as well.
The best way to counter that is by reworking the experience/bonds gained. To base it on dodge or hits done rather than based on damage.
The reason why I said to rework the resistance is due to the fact that inno would feel like a scam if they changed the damage formula. Do you think people would be happy for their "investment" on op weaponry and the damage formula changes all of a sudden?

Its a cheesy way to help out without directly hurting damage makers.
 

Bucksnort Hawkins

Well-Known Member
The best way to counter that is by reworking the experience/bonds gained. To base it on dodge or hits done rather than based on damage.
The reason why I said to rework the resistance is due to the fact that inno would feel like a scam if they changed the damage formula. Do you think people would be happy for their "investment" on op weaponry and the damage formula changes all of a sudden?

Its a cheesy way to help out without directly hurting damage makers.
It seems like your solution still won't address Raider's point about shutting out low-level players. I think what you are suggesting only would work on a fresh world. You're right about changing the damage output. I can think of one person in particular on Houston that has a x2 UO set. That person would probably demand their money back.

Then again, as I have been maintaining, this situation is the el diablo pollos coming home to roost with the past formula tinkerings. Inno has painted themselves into a corner here and it's obvious the volunteers and their leadership have no ideas either. The West Dev Blog (https://devblog.the-west.net/) hasn't even shared a post in almost 3 years. The only suggested updates we hear about are in the vague video reports. I personally have little faith in those.
 

RaiderTr

Well-Known Member
The best way to counter that is by reworking the experience/bonds gained. To base it on dodge or hits done rather than based on damage..
Reward system sucks. Although at some point those rewards are meh for everyone.
Think Workers get the best of it though. Even if they are Tanks they will easily outdamage Soldiers.
The reason why I said to rework the resistance is due to the fact that inno would feel like a scam if they changed the damage formula. Do you think people would be happy for their "investment" on op weaponry and the damage formula changes all of a sudden?

Its a cheesy way to help out without directly hurting damage makers
Like I said, I don't mind.
I just thought I could mention both being borken at the moment.

But then, how about Tanks/Blockers invested 5-10 years into the game just to have their class almost useless and a toy of Damagers in the end?


My thread btw. If anyone missed by chance.
https://forum.the-west.net/index.php?threads/balancing-fort-battles.58279
 

Bucksnort Hawkins

Well-Known Member
But then, how about Tanks/Blockers invested 5-10 years into the game just to have their class almost useless and a toy of Damagers in the end?
Hear, hear Raider! And by they way folks, if you cannot understand what Raider is saying here, you're either incredibly ignorant or selfishly apathetic about it.
 

RaiderTr

Well-Known Member
Yea there is absolute no incentive to join Fort Battles unless u like them or want Event currency.
Bonds and Xp good at the start (That is, if you are a Damager, surpriseeee) but meh after some point.
 

Harsha..

Well-Known Member
The reason why I said to rework the resistance is due to the fact that inno would feel like a scam if they changed the damage formula. Do you think people would be happy for their "investment" on op weaponry and the damage formula changes all of a sudden?

Its a cheesy way to help out without directly hurting damage makers.
Looking at it through the eyes of a damager, it's easy to say that. It's a common fallacy - I've seen many damagers talk the same way - that if stronger sets for tanks appear, they will "suffer" and not hit anything, that if the damage formula is changed and as a result they start doing less damage, they will "suffer". That is ridiculous and is thinking very narrowly, failing to see the big picture.

As a veteran player of 11+ years, I have seen what battles used to be. They used to be amazing, filled with genuine strategy and were balanced well. And they lasted 54 rounds. Just check the IFBC 2017 battles and compare them to more recent large FFs on any world and you can easily see how far FFing standards have fallen. They have fallen because of the abuse of the damage formula, and due to the tendency of the new sets to magnify that abuse. I'll guarantee that, if the damage formula were changed, that on it's own would completely revive the game.


Sure does instill a lot of confidence when we wait for some kind of input from the staff and what we end up getting is someone poking fun in the end....yeah, real professional.
I'm made to understand that some of the staff objected to the introduction of the union's set and have consistently asked for change to no avail, Innogames doesn't really pay that much attention to feedback anymore. However, staff do have the ability to organize events (and possibly open event worlds), and it's disappointing that they haven't used any tools at their disposal so far in that direction.
 

RaiderTr

Well-Known Member
staff do have the ability to organize events (and possibly open event worlds), and it's disappointing that they haven't used any tools at their disposal so far in that direction.
Ironically, only in .Net, where majority players are, that there isn't any.