Dueller class needs to nerfed.

  • Thread starter Bucksnort Hawkins
  • Start date

Bucksnort Hawkins

Hey folks. I'd like to get some feedback.

This is an email I wrote directly to Innogames:

"Hello, This message is a simple plea concerning The West. There is a severe imbalance in the game in regards to the fort fighting feature. After many attempts to discuss this with the game moderators (I use the EN server and Forum), I'm receiving nothing but dismissive communications. Innogames has always fostered a community of sincere communication between its players, the volunteer staff, and the developers of the game. This community as all but collapsed for The West. In the process, this very bad imbalance has been allowed to fester. I personally see this as the beginning of how The West will ultimately fail financially as you are catering to one particular style of play over all the rest that the game has availed over the years. You will drive out all those other players and be left with the catered crowd leaving the game sadly dysfunctional. I appreciate your time reading this. The West is a unique game experience and I care about its future."

This is the response I received from the main CM (etriel):

"Thank you for your email.


I have received the community feedback about the fort battle. I understand that you mean set bonuses from this year sales. I would like to point out that in the meantime at least two free sets have been added as a counter weight. Of course, we will still improve the fort battle settings. I would like to ask you to read forum announcements.

If you would like to add something, or describe in details or ask something, please contact me."

I'd really like some more feedback as this has been discussed at length. I know there are many here that don't recognize the imbalance that I am referring to but the head CM responded here saying that she recognizes the problem of the UO set and that Livingston and Courier sets were issued as a "counter-balance" without me spelling it out in the initial message.

We all know that those measures she is referring to are not working. This issue is coupled with Diggo's modification of the FF formulae awhile back to intercede with the HP creep slowing down battles. At the time, it was the right thing to do but now Damagers are too enhanced and are given too much with purchasable options.

If anything else, having the ability to discuss this directly with etriel as players/users (and not only as a volunteer staff or regular staff) is an opportunity. I tried going through kuro and the mods but they aren't helping or are simply unable to help.

I have my own concerns I want to present but there are way more experienced FFers on here that I'd love to hear from and help voice their comments, critiques, concerns to etriel when I respond.

Thank you.
 

RaiderTr

Well-Known Member
TY for your time Buck, and thanks to her for bothering to answer :p


First and foremost thing for her to acknowledge is that;
While the way they are designed is very important and must be made very carefully, new sets (Nugget or Tombola/Free alike) won't contribute to solving the issue at all, if not make it even worse!
(We all know how much help Courtier, or even Livingston does, as Critic fodders)

That means, mechanics (formulas, rewarding, default FF bonuses, class bonuses -like Adventurers and Soldiers- etc etc) needs changing. And to make that, a good time investment is needed. I'm pretty sure Diggo can handle it though, if he is allowed. (Praise him for Html5)

I mean.. I'm not the "best" or even "very experienced" player/FF'er but I feel like I covered most of the Issues / Options.
All would be an Overkill, obviously, but some of them is a MUST:
https://forum.the-west.net/index.php?threads/balancing-fort-battles.58279


Ps. They should have Nerfed Union Officer madness. Like really.
 
Last edited:

Harsha..

Well-Known Member
Well, no harm in trying. But, for a start, I still do not understand their motivations for favoring damagers over tanks in the present scheme of things. Most rational people can clearly see that is not a sensible course of action.

Best suggestion I can give is, don't just ask for sets to "counter" union, playing the existing game of better and better sets won't solve anything. Rather, ask for a more fundamental change to some aspect of the game. Make it a point to request that testing on the beta server be taken seriously once again and try various new frameworks there to find stuff that really works.
 

RaiderTr

Well-Known Member
Soo.. it seems that we've been giving feedback on wrong place all along.
According to Here (towards the bottom) InnoGames has became a Subsidiary Company of "Modern Times Group" , aka MTG, in '17 (&'16) and I don't think it's a coincidence that "Actual" Development (keeping Mechanics, Formulas etc etc up-to-date, balancing Non-Payers vs Payers etc etc) of the game ended around those years.

I mean, it seems that MTG ain't aware of the game's past and its true potential.
No advertisement of this game but others' in this game proves that on its own, but man, it's not even mentioned Here, what da f!

So yeah, until they somehow comprehend that, expecting proper stuff is just a dream.

I'ven't been able to find a contact point (aka simple email) so far and I doubt they will give a flying f to a "random" customer (not that I'm the right person to do such "serious" business) but that seems to be our best and last shot really.
 
Last edited:

Bucksnort Hawkins

Sending a message to MTG won't change the way this game is developed, unfortunately.
Well Slygoxx we as players have to try something. Our voice really isn't being heard any other way. Now if you guys can publicly say that this game is now fully pay-to-win then it'll be clear there's no point in trying to make a change. The previous culture of The West that's been developed over a decade, somewhat pay to win, is now old hat.

What the real sin here is there are people on Houston and Idaho (and probably other worlds) that are trying to figure out their own ways to rebalance fort battles. They do it not with the hope that you guys will some day address it; that's actually a secondary false hope: they do it because they love the game so much.

I was so relieved to see the DotD sets were duel-based, but I still dread what you all will be releasing as the next pay-to-win fort set. I can only assume based on precedent that it will be magnitudes worse than the Union Officer set.

i suppose we all just have to sit back and watch this game burn to the ground. That's what your response tells me Slygoxx in a nutshell.
 

RaiderTr

Well-Known Member
Sending a message to MTG won't change the way this game is developed, unfortunately.
Developed? I hope making copy-paste sets/events ain't count as "development"


And if you don't mind;

They Can't? or Won't?
And, are you talking from Experience?

In any case, they ain't seem to be aware of this game's past and its true potential. Yes, it still has that potential and they could actually make much more money (without P2W garbage) , should they listen.
i suppose we all just have to sit back and watch this game burn to the ground. That's what your response tells me Slygoxx in a nutshell.
 
Last edited:

lulumcnoob

Well-Known Member
I appreciate what you're trying to do Buck... Money's the only thing that will change anything, but obviously the concern at this point is Inno deciding to just yeet The West's servers if the p2w gambling loot-box money stops rolling in.

What the real sin here is there are people on Houston and Idaho (and probably other worlds) that are trying to figure out their own ways to rebalance fort battles. They do it not with the hope that you guys will some day address it; that's actually a secondary false hope: they do it because they love the game so much.
This paragraph really hit me when I read it. All I ever really wanted in the last year on The West was a slight indication that fort battle imbalance was acknowledged and being worked on in some way, but that never came, after the dozens of threads I've read and been involved in all around The West's community on fort battle issues in the last year. Not even official acknowledgement that fort battles are unbalanced and usually decided by your players' ability to buy premium damage gear, rather than leadership, tactics, skill and teamwork.
Tanks are, still just the play-thing of premium-spending damage builds, the premium gap is obviously constantly power-creeping upwards, and it seems there's less than 200 fort fighters on a single peak fort battle game world these days.
I think Idaho is now a lost cause btw, unless you like another server with small battles :no: Although there are multiple contributing factors in the death of that world.
As for World J, it will take 9 months to a year to catch up to where Idaho was before this world opened, and then, I assume, another world will be opened and the cycle of abusing your game's fans is renewed.

Long Live Colorado, it may be a cesspool of entitlement now, but it's still going stronger than anywhere else purely on it being the absolute peak West server of all time. I personally believe we need efforts to make sure this world stays alive. I'm not entirely sure why someone in Hamburg controls things like migrations and server closures, over the community who actually play here, but hey I guess I should make my own game if i want to run it well.

I'm mostly just concerned at this point over what happens to the Classic The-West intellectual property when the gambling addicts stop gambling because they've finally caught on that they are spending money to buy pixels in an unsubstainably degrading game with little-to-no player base left and game management who seemingly couldn't care less about the state of this game.

I do understand that not all game developers play their own games, but usually they'll take feedback from their fans who do actually play... If all you want to do is sell me pixels via gambling mechanics and not fix the most basic glaring problems in the product, someone should call EA and tell them they aren't the worst anymore.
 
Last edited:

RaiderTr

Well-Known Member
All this time we blamed Inno but now I'm not sure who is to be blamed really.
It seems all "Official" feedback topics on Beta Forum & "Actual" development ended after MTG takeover around '16 and '17.

I mean, surely Inno started this Tombola sets madness but it doesn't necessarily make the game unbalanced right away.
You still can adapt the rest of the game to that and they didn't (or they Attempted but couldn't finish it) , so issue keeps becoming bigger and bigger as the Sets become stronger and stronger every Event/Year.
 

lulumcnoob

Well-Known Member
I mean, surely Inno started this Tombola sets madness but it doesn't necessarily make the game unbalanced right away.
You still can adapt the rest of the game to that and they didn't (or they Attempted but couldn't finish it) , so issue keeps becoming bigger and bigger as the Sets become stronger and stronger every Event/Year.
They very rarely took Beta feedback into account after the first couple of years of tombola simulator, we say "this set is too strong, be aware of power creep", they ignore it and release as is. rinse and repeat making that server and any resemblance of quality control a complete joke for a number of years now.
 

RaiderTr

Well-Known Member
Yea the Power Jump between sets from event to event/year to year is insane. Then there is Upgrade on top of that..
Maybe, just maybe it would be still Okay-ish if "Opposite sides" of the coin (i.e Ranged v Melee Duels, FF Damagers v Tanks etc) were kept balanced all the time.

But of course we have those instant-Buy, pure Pay to Win, OP (& Upgradable on top of that) Nugget sets too..
And then outdated Mechanics, Formulas etc. that can't keep up with the power creep.

Apart from "made-useless" (by OP Tombola sets) big part of the game that is.
 
Last edited:

Bucksnort Hawkins

Tanks are, still just the play-thing of premium-spending damage builds, the premium gap is obviously constantly power-creeping upwards, and it seems there's less than 200 fort fighters on a single peak fort battle game world these days.
Lulu, you just cannot say it any better than this. So, mod team et al. please just admit this is the way things are and will be here on out. Do that and I won't say another word about this issue ever again.