Creating "God" in one's own image

[DeletedUser]

okay, ill start my way from Louis and work my way down.

If science can't explain something and the Bible clearly tells us how God created things, then why side with the one that's doesn;t know their butt from a hole in ground? (pardon my metaphor)


And after Noah got off the Ark God said to him that all the animals of the ground you may eat, but not it's blood. BUt he bible says You shall NOT kill (you're fellow man)

and the way that is proven is because those who killed animals were not put to death, only those who killed humans.


And with a lot of you, you guys don;t view the Bible as creditable simply because you don't understand it, I understand your viewpoint, and it doesn't add up, and science itself can prove itself wrong in many of its "anti-Creation" theories. That is why I stand where i stand this matter.

But when i said you can't see wind but you know it's there, just like god, That wasn't whole point, i noticed you guys have narrowed my quotes until they aren't even my main points, you guys pick out a lot of my small details and pick them apart, when I, can pick apart and dis-credit the MAIN point of Evolution and non-creation theories.


and on the subjest from James and Romans, the bible also critizizes those who "over-examine" the law. you are acting just as the pharisees of Jesus' time on earth.

And what you said from my quote i've made my point on creation i knew that more than likely none of you would jump from your computers and fll on your knees shouting "praised be god the creator of heavens and Earth!" i expected that you guys simply do not like what you do not understand, when the bible tells me and proves to me and really to any that desire to understand it what has happend in history, you guys prefer the scientific. "we have no written or historic evidence of that" when that in of itself proves to me that you guys have no idea what you're talking about (no offense, meant with honesty)

In Job 26:7 Job says that the earth hangs upon nothing, that was written in 1476 B.C. and until 100a.d. or so, everyone believed the earth was supported by atlas or a big turtle with elephants, so how did this man know the truth thousands of years before proven by science?

In Isaiah 40:22 Isaiah says that the Earth is a circle, and that hebrew word could also be translated, "sphere" That was written in 732 B.C. almost a thousand years later is when it was proven by science that instead of being flat, the earth is a sphere. So how did the writer know that?

All you guys are doing is proving the Bible's divine authorship to me more and more, and for that I thank you.

 

[DeletedUser]

the reason i follow what i read and have true faith is because i have debated over if there truly is a god and if the Bible is credible and I found it all to be true.

Answer me this, how exactly is the earth the ABSOLUTE perfect distance from the sun. much closer and we'd all be dead. much farther and we'd all be dead. Too much of a coincidence to me.

The earth is the perfect size, much bigger and gravity would kill us, much smaller and the earth couldn't hold the atmosohere and we'd suffocate.

The sun is a perfect size, much bigger and it would burn us, much smaller and it wouldn't heat us enough for survival.

Scientists, philosiphers, poets, inventers, and mathematicians have said themselves,
(1) The universe appears to have been designed by a mathematical genius. the way the universe works so precisely in a way that we don't understand, and yet it continues to work perfectly everyday.
and (2) It takes more faith to believe the universe came about by chance, than to believe and intelligent creator made it come to be.


PLease allow me to explain the universe's creation from atheistic scientific side.


(Deep breathe)

Two stars that were the only things in the universe happen to collide with each other and the great amount of energy creating the universe and the particles within it.

from there our solar system was just a big cloud of gas and dust, and somehow the center started spinning and getting hotter in the core, then the sun was formed at that core and the remaining dust formed the planets.

And somehow these plantes happen to come about and start rotating around the sun with perfect orbits that keep them from crashing into each other. (Even though the moon was made from a planet collision according to science it's amazing no planet has collided with Earth since life was on it)

But then somehow the earth, which was filled mainly with lava, all of a sudden was rained on, thus creating land and the oceans. And then out of NOWHERE came single-celled organisms, and from there they became plants, and from there become a brainless animal, and from there it got a brain, and from there strange new species were made, and from there there came to be dinosaurs, and then they changed into mammals, and those mammals came to have primates, and those primates became modern man.

And today man has the ability of being a sentient being capable of making moral decesions no animal makes, and is able to enjoy life in a way no animal does. and can continue to learn about the universe around him.

And every single bit of that just happen to come about by CHANCE!?

i don't think so.


and some parts of that theory can be brought down by one qeustions, "the big bang" where did the two stars that caused it come from?

Where did the first single-celled organism come from?

if we came from apes, why are there still apes?


I believe I have made my point of creation, unless some of you have reasonable arguement over that.

and the bible says that you are to eat animals, but not its blood, thus you would have to kill them.

Your scientific arguments are appalling. If you bothered to look into it, we did not descend from apes. We AND apes descended from a common ancestor (theoretically) named ardipithecus. And (this is a shocker!) Ardi no longer exists.

The Earth is NOT the perfect distance from the sun. Anyways, it is where it is per chance. Astronomers have found many planets that aren't too far away from being Earth-like.

For God's sake, how could you possibly ask the question of where the first bacterium/protist came from? Have you ever, EVER heard of primordial soup?

Now, I agree with you on the Big Bang. Something had to create the Higgs-Boson Particle (which is the "matter" that exploded). That is the main reason why I believe in God; not because somebody got nailed to a cross and awoke from the dead.

So, I believe all the science is true. It's just that I believe God created the physics and matter the universe came from. Science and Religion CAN co-exist.





Manipulating scripture is not a bad thing. With X and Y Y DOES NOT go against X's teachings, in a sense. If Jesus descends from the Heavens with a choir of angels and tells me, "Thou shalt not kill another man under no circumstance," I will change my beliefs. The Bible is open to rational interpretation.

 

[DeletedUser]

The Bible interprets intself, man does not interpret it. but im glad you understand what i meant, and primordial soup is absolute crap. If you truly believe in God, and/or the Bible you wouldn't believe any of some of that scientific soup and evolution. Because the Bible contradicts evolution and that primordial soup stuff. and you said the earth isn't the perfect distance, i agree, it can't move slightly, but too much and we're all dead.and you said other plantes are earth-like, then why isn't there any life on them? and if you say "we can't see that far away." then answer me this, From Billions up billions of miles, telescopes can see far away, and we can see that Earth has life from a much farther distance. With its big oceans and green land. If that soup stuff was truly existant and true, then why hasn't that happend on those planets?

 

[DeletedUser]

okay, ill start my way from Louis and work my way down.

If science can't explain something and the Bible clearly tells us how God created things, then why side with the one that's doesn;t know their butt from a hole in ground? (pardon my metaphor)

You didn't read my post, did you? There's no proof ! The Bible said it clearly? That God is more than a genius, created everything just perfectly? Could you tell me HOW clearly is it? And DID I say I side with science about the theory of human evolution? Or I just said that I stand aside. And what you say sounds to me like "Wow! Science sucks because it can't explain". PLEASE read my post and think TWICE before you say something.

And after Noah got off the Ark God said to him that all the animals of the ground you may eat, but not it's blood. BUt he bible says You shall NOT kill (you're fellow man)

and the way that is proven is because those who killed animals were not put to death, only those who killed humans.

I really don't get you here. WHAT is the "he bible"? You mean "the bible"?

If that so, then what is the point of "put to death" here? So just because A kill B, A must be dead/be put to death ===> killing is a sin? Who decided that A must be dead? Who decided that such deed is a sin? WHO? Or you're going to say God said so then it must be so? Then, for goodness's sake, you're merely saying that "killing humans" is a sin because the Bible said so. Am I right?

And with a lot of you, you guys don;t view the Bible as creditable simply because you don't understand it, I understand your viewpoint, and it doesn't add up, and science itself can prove itself wrong in many of its "anti-Creation" theories. That is why I stand where i stand this matter.

How absurd is it to compare God with wind? When you have mishap do you pray to wind? Or you pray to God? But does he answer you? Do you hear it? Does he help you (by any means)? Or you simply read the Bible and pray that everything's gonna be fine?

On the other hand, assume that God existed, HOW DO YOU KNOW BIBLE IS GOD'S WORDS?

But when i said you can't see wind but you know it's there, just like god, That wasn't whole point, i noticed you guys have narrowed my quotes until they aren't even my main points, you guys pick out a lot of my small details and pick them apart, when I, can pick apart and dis-credit the MAIN point of Evolution and non-creation theories.

Do it as you wish, science and its theory of human evolution doesn't bother. You can go and criticize them with whatever you like.

And what you said from my quote i've made my point on creation i knew that more than likely none of you would jump from your computers and fll on your knees shouting "praised be god the creator of heavens and Earth!" i expected that you guys simply do not like what you do not understand, when the bible tells me and proves to me and really to any that desire to understand it what has happend in history, you guys prefer the scientific. "we have no written or historic evidence of that" when that in of itself proves to me that you guys have no idea what you're talking about (no offense, meant with honesty)

I repeat: I DID NOT SAY I SIDE WITH SCIENCE. If you did read my post, you'll get it. And what is "we have no written or historic evidence of that" supposed to mean?

In Job 26:7 Job says that the earth hangs upon nothing, that was written in 1476 B.C. and until 100a.d. or so, everyone believed the earth was supported by atlas or a big turtle with elephants, so how did this man know the truth thousands of years before proven by science?

Now you listen to me, how does he know, I don't care. Until I can see the past, there's no proof (that he knows such things at that time). Alright? And besides how do you know that it (what Job said) was written at that time?

In Isaiah 40:22 Isaiah says that the Earth is a circle, and that hebrew word could also be translated, "sphere" That was written in 732 B.C. almost a thousand years later is when it was proven by science that instead of being flat, the earth is a sphere. So how did the writer know that?

Again. Until I see the past, there's no proof. Again. How do you know that it was written at that time?

In addition, I'm a very realistic person about such things (like mysteries, science, religions etc.). Until I see it by my eyes, touch it by my hands, hear it by my ears, I don't believe it.

P/S: Could you please use more proper grammar? I try to explain everything as best as I can, as understandable as I can. Meanwhile, your improper grammar makes me feel like you don't respect me while we are seriously discussing. No offense, it's just what I feel.

 

[DeletedUser]

do you realize you guys are still taking my wind metaphor the wrong way! I DIDN'T SAY IT PROVES THERE'S A GOD! I used to show that all of you have faith, faith that the wind is there even though you can't see it. since faith was the topic at that point.

and there are those that will disagree just because they can't wrap their heads around it. and to be honest, i can't wrap my head around people like that.



okay, how do we know dinosaurs didn't exist just 10,000 years ago? Carbon and other dating methods! the scrolls that the Bible was written on were dated using some modern dating methos, answer your own question. and if you sau there is no proof that that wasn't a fake, then you just don't want to accept just because you don't want to, plain and simple.

that would be like you telling me you read that the earth is round, then i say no it's not. and you keep explaining that it has been proven by columbus when he when around the globe, and when man went in space he could see the Earth. then all i would have to say is, "I wasn't there, so it can't be true" then you show me a picture, and all i say is, "that must be a fake, someone doctored that photo."

this is exactly what the Bible calls "Haters of Truth"


BTW have you ever read of the prophecy that told exactly the conquest and short reign of Alexander the Great and how the four generals took his place after he conquered the world. Alexander's life was predicted over 400 years before Alexander was born. but if i were to tell you where in the bible it was or relate it to you, you would just come up with some bogus excuse as to why a man couldn't know that and that it wasn't written before he was born or some such nonsense. so since can't even reason with you guys, I can't just keep wasting my time defending what's truth and hearing nothing but dumb answers and contradictions.

 

[DeletedUser]

do you realize you guys are still taking my wind metaphor the wrong way! I DIDN'T SAY IT PROVES THERE'S A GOD! I used to show that all of you have faith, faith that the wind is there even though you can't see it. since faith was the topic at that point.

Now you turn it around and say that was about faith. Alright, I'm wrong, as if it was about faith. But, where I stand for is, I don't have faith in something that's not clear. In other words, that has no proof.

okay, how do we know dinosaurs didn't exist just 10,000 years ago? Carbon and other dating methods! the scrolls that the Bible was written on were dated using some modern dating methos, answer your own question. and if you sau there is no proof that that wasn't a fake, then you just don't want to accept just because you don't want to, plain and simple.

Small question: What dating methods?

that would be like you telling me you read that the earth is round, then i say no it's not. and you keep explaining that it has been proven by columbus when he when around the globe, and when man went in space he could see the Earth. then all i would have to say is, "I wasn't there, so it can't be true" then you show me a picture, and all i say is, "that must be a fake, someone doctored that photo."

this is exactly what the Bible calls "Haters of Truth"

BTW have you ever read of the prophecy that told exactly the conquest and short reign of Alexander the Great and how the four generals took his place after he conquered the world. Alexander's life was predicted over 400 years before Alexander was born. but if i were to tell you where in the bible it was or relate it to you, you would just come up with some bogus excuse as to why a man couldn't know that and that it wasn't written before he was born or some such nonsense. so since can't even reason with you guys, I can't just keep wasting my time defending what's truth and hearing nothing but dumb answers and contradictions.

Really, I'm getting to the point where I'm fed up talking it through with you, since we have different perception.

You didn't even answer a lot of things I asked in the beginning, such as KILLING HUMANS, such as EVIDENCE THAT GOD EXISTED, such as EVIDENCE THAT IT WAS GOD'S WORDS. All you said is, to summarize, "Have faith, Bible told you so, believe in it", since you said it was about faith. You pose faith here to explain that Bible is true BECAUSE you believe in it. Am I right?

Edit: PLEASE ANSWER MY QUESTION FIRST BEFORE YOU GO ON AND ON ABOUT YOUR FAITH OR WHATEVER.

 

[DeletedUser]

you're still not listening to me either

And you're proving me right.

 

[DeletedUser]

Geez, you can call me Hater of Truth or whatever. But please be real and answer me first.

 

[DeletedUser]

If i do then you just say that i didn;t annswer and that i have no proof, i like talking to people about the Bible, even if they have no intention of believing one word i say.

But you're an angry atheist, one that won't listen to any type of reason and just disregards anything i say as false and i don't like talking to them

 

[DeletedUser]

Please stick to discussing the topic rather than each other. Thanks.

 

[DeletedUser]

technically we're still on the "God" topic. (not to be disagreeable

 

[DeletedUser]

If i do then you just say that i didn;t annswer and that i have no proof, i like talking to people about the Bible, even if they have no intention of believing one word i say.

But you're an angry atheist, one that won't listen to any type of reason and just disregards anything i say as false and i don't like talking to them

See, you didn't even take your time to answer me while I was really reading what you said and tried my best to address everything I could. Then for what? You go against it in a new direction and turn it around and etc.

Now, DID I say that I won't listen because you have no proof? You're getting me wrong, really. Everything you gave me really didn't have anything to back it up.

I might be way too serious, but I enjoy discuss/debate or anything similar. I have a hot head, but if you can give me a concrete fact/evidence, then I admit it. And you don't. You believe in your opinion too much and didn't even bother read my posts thoroughly and keep avoiding answer me. Am I right?

And, PLEASE, read (or re-read) my posts. DID I say that I'm an atheist? (Again) It proves that you did NOT bother read what I said.

And, last but not least, the first and main thing of my appearance in this thread is to suggest you to be sober about the way you follow your religion. But, as everyone could see, it's just getting worse.

P/S: I have a few more questions besides those that I've asked, but I'm sure you won't even bother to read and answer it (again). So I won't say it unless you really want to talk things through.

 

[DeletedUser]

The Bible interprets intself, man does not interpret it. but im glad you understand what i meant, and primordial soup is absolute crap. If you truly believe in God, and/or the Bible you wouldn't believe any of some of that scientific soup and evolution. Because the Bible contradicts evolution and that primordial soup stuff. and you said the earth isn't the perfect distance, i agree, it can't move slightly, but too much and we're all dead.and you said other plantes are earth-like, then why isn't there any life on them? and if you say "we can't see that far away." then answer me this, From Billions up billions of miles, telescopes can see far away, and we can see that Earth has life from a much farther distance. With its big oceans and green land. If that soup stuff was truly existant and true, then why hasn't that happend on those planets?

Now that's a wonderful question. Granted, though, it doesn't have to be green to be plant life. On closer inspection, we might find that the brown planet WAY off in the distance is filled with brown grasses and moss.

Yeah, I consider myself a Christian, but that's really just because my family was Christian. My real beliefs are somewhat more like this:
1. There is an intelligent God.
2. God created the Higgs-Boson Particle.
3. He does not affect the world as it is today. However, he has a sort of "plan" laid out, and this plan is what led to Earth, our creation, and evolution.
4. The Big Crunch will happen, and that will be the much-debated "apocalypse".

And I believe in Jesus.


The teachings of the Bible are far from science, like you said. There's so much proof, though, that the science is correct that it is easy to debunk the entire religion of Christianity, or any other religion. But, there is one possible explanation for the "seven days" theory of creation: maybe a day in Heaven is billions of years in our mundane Universe?

 

[DeletedUser]

Good point Thomas, but one question. If you believe in God, then why don't you believe his word, The Bible? a lot of the things you say contradict the scriptures.

And louis, i had wrote a flippin' book here but my computer shut down ill condense it down but still answer all the questions i did.

As proof of hard evidence of the Bible's creditbility, their were gold-covered chariot wheels found at the bottim of the Red Sea not more than a century ago, going along with the Bible's account of Moses and the Egyptians.

And the prediction about Alexander the Great, how could a man know that much about the future, unless divinely influenced?

The bible also tells about how the ancient empire of Babylon was destroyed hundreds of years before it happend, so once more, how could just a man know that that far in advance?

And i very soberly beilieve in what i believe in. I don't create God in my own image, I know him by what the Bible tells me about him, and who he truly is.


Evolution and science has tought things as fact that have been proven wrong, for example, bones were found resembling the so-called "missing link" and for over twenty years through the 60's and 70's, this was considered evidence of evolution.

Now it has been discovered that those were orangutan bones. they were used as factual evidence, and proven false.

 

[DeletedUser]

First of all, I wanna know what is your religion?

Secondly, I need you to clarify what "God" you are talking about? Is it the "God" of God, the one that supposedly created everything?

Thirdly, who is Moses? Sorry for my dumb question. I come from a south-east Asia country and there weren't many people follow something else, but Buddhism. Thus I don't have many chances to talk and exchange information with other religions. And in case you might say something similar to ir.ufis, yes, I followed Buddhism because my family's been following it. However, Buddhism, as similar to other religions, really doesn't have concrete evidences apart from such written documents. So I chose my own way to follow it. In other words, I don't believe it as if it's always right like you (no offense).

And louis, i had wrote a flippin' book here but my computer shut down ill condense it down but still answer all the questions i did.

Yup, sure thing. I'm looking forward to that book.

As proof of hard evidence of the Bible's creditbility, their were gold-covered chariot wheels found at the bottim of the Red Sea not more than a century ago, going along with the Bible's account of Moses and the Egyptians.

Yup, it's a hard evidence. But it only explains that Bible has been written long time ago. You still don't know what has been written is right or wrong, I mean accurate or not, right?

And, by the way, how did it explain that the "God" of God exist? I'm interested in that.

And the prediction about Alexander the Great, how could a man know that much about the future, unless divinely influenced?

The bible also tells about how the ancient empire of Babylon was destroyed hundreds of years before it happend, so once more, how could just a man know that that far in advance?

Well, I have no idea. This is one of many mysteries that science can't explain. However, I would say that the person knew about the future doesn't necessarily mean he is a God. There were others who were well-known for predicting the future too.

And i very soberly beilieve in what i believe in. I don't create God in my own image, I know him by what the Bible tells me about him, and who he truly is.

I didn't say you create God in your own image, but please be cautious about what you believe in. Anyway, it's alright. You could just leave it behind as you wish.

Evolution and science has tought things as fact that have been proven wrong, for example, bones were found resembling the so-called "missing link" and for over twenty years through the 60's and 70's, this was considered evidence of evolution.

Now it has been discovered that those were orangutan bones. they were used as factual evidence, and proven false.

That's another good one. But, imo, it still doesn't prove that God created such things. Before you go against me again, please let me explain.

If those bones were proven wrong to be considered evidence, then it would have meant that the theory of evolution is not right. You can't say that because its used-to-be evidences are false then it is wrong. In order to prove it wrong, I think you need to come up with something different, rather than simply put the credit to God. It's not right rather due to lack of evidence and it might be either:
+ Right, but doesn't have evidence.
+ Wrong, but yet to be proven.

You might say that you come up with the Bible and it said that God created everything. Well, the Bible might have credibility, according to what you said, however, the evidence about God's existence is unknown. Therefore, if there isn't evidence about God's existence, then how do we know whether Bible was his words or not? And how accurate is Bible?
On a side note, the reason why I ask this question is because you said that "you know God by what the Bible tells you about him, and who he truly is". But remember, how accurate is the Bible? And, still, it's not an evidence that God existed, but only the Bible says so, right? If you analyse a little bit deeper, you might get what I'm saying here.

Last but not least, you still didn't answer me why killing humans is a sin. This might sound a bit off track, but, really, I'm curious and interested in that.

 

[DeletedUser]

To answer you, i believe in the one true God, the one that created everything and the one that watches us now.



And when the person predicted the future, i didn't say he was a God, i said that he was told the future by God. And if the Bible only speaks of one true God, and if it's right about many things that were to happen in the future, no man could have known those things, so they must have been aided by the one true God that the Bible speaks of.


And in the Red Sea account, the egyptians chase after the Israelites (aka their slaves) that are leaving, and as a means of salvation from the Egyptians, God gives Moses the ability to open the red sea until there is just solid ground to walk through. then the Egyptians chase after them and the Red Sea falls back on them, killing Pharoah and his army. That is why the Bible's credible and how it shows that the God of God exists, since he was able to open up the Red Sea and save Israel. And the chariot wheels at the bottom of the Red sounds like some good evidence to me.

now don't call me ignorant in your mind because i believe that God did that, the way i view the way you can believe that we could just come about by chance, is betond me, the odds are so overwhelming mathematician can barely describe it. But if those are your beliefs, i respect them.

continueing on, my point on Evolution being wrong thinking for years that orangutan bones were the missing link, shows evolution incapability of proving their knowledge. hen i read in the Bible predictions that were fulfilled just as they were written, historic accounts that were accurate, and much, much more. I hope i satisfied your questions.

 

[DeletedUser]

Yes, I respect all you have said. And I will need to give this topic a few researches later on.

Btw, I'm curious in your religion, and why killing a man is a sin?

 

[DeletedUser]

LOL. You say Alexander was blessed by God? There are many things wrong with that theory.

1. Why would God support a man who conquered and slew other men?
2. Alexander was not Christian.
3. Perhaps it was because he truly was a military genius and realized the values of espionage.
-------
You also mentioned that evolutionary theory was wrong for a long time. Well, yes, but is Christianity so unflawed? Hell, there's three SMALL divisions of it based on the fact that Christians can't agree! The Great Schism changed the world when Catholics and Orthodox-followers could not agree on the iconoclastic controversy.

 

[DeletedUser]

first off, i NEVER said Alexander was blessed by God, i don't know where you got that, all i said was that God gave man insight to the future. you completely misunderstood me.

and christians disagree, but not God's true people. You have seen false religion all your life, that is why you feel the way you do about Christians.

And to louis, Im one of Jehovah's Witnesses. and you have pprobably heard more untrue things about us than truth, so please ask me if the info you have is right before you make a staement about it.

And how could you ask a question about whether killing a man is wrong? that is unbelieveable. If the Bible says to kill a man is punishable by death, and that you can kill animals, shouldn't that answer your question? And if man was created as an intelligent, sentiant form of life, to end it would be evil.

 

[DeletedUser]

My own studies of the 20th chapter of Exodus (where the commandments are listed) does not state as just "killing" , the Hebrew word in the manuscripts from which the King James version was translated means "to lie in wait" which means commit criminal Homicide. This is what is punishable by death of the flesh from God.

In Christianity he is The Father and the murderer is murdering His child before their "natural" time is to be complete. The murderer is to be put to death before their own "natural" time is complete.

The Bible also speaks of accidents and crimes of passion. The person who contributes to the accidental death of another is to be taken to a neighboring city until his/her name is cleared. So that a member of the family of the deceased will not seek revenge or justice before a investigation is complete.
Crimes of Passion is defending your family or your home when it is the intent of the attacker to harm you or your family.

A murderer is to be killed in a public place so that anyone else who has these types of thoughts about "murder" will think twice about intending to take another life on purpose.

The Bible also says to follow the laws of the land in which you reside. So if you don't agree with them , move.
Just my opinion.

If you don't share this opinion , no harm no foul. We can be mature and just agree to disagree.