Antiziganism

DeletedUser17649

"There are those who are in the business of fortune telling and even though they are very prosperous, they deny being subject to taxes..." - Duduie

From my understanding that's pretty much the norm for people claiming to be "paranormal" and not restricted to Gypsies.

I can't see how Gypsies are better or worse than any other person, they just have the opportunity (or are obliged) to do it this way.

Other people who are usually viewed as untrustworthy, thiefes etc. are Politicians, people who works with the stock markets, not the workers but their bosses, bankers, C.E.O.'s etc.
 

DeletedUser

Rannon said:
From my understanding that's pretty much the norm for people claiming to be "paranormal" and not restricted to Gypsies.
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Not really. Everybody should pay income tax. Every person, organization, company, or non-profit is subject to the income tax. How's that different?
 

DeletedUser9470

I think that beyond thieving and not paying any taxes, child slavery and human trafficking methods these people resort to, that duduie has pointed out, are far more important issues to be tackling.
these people chose this way of life.
 

DeletedUser

Not even sure I should bother to show just how distorted these arguments are. Seriously, the investment of time and energy to convince yourselves and others of the "evil" you purport merely demonstrates how facts, evidence, statistics and common sense are unlikely to sway your beliefs. Indeed, I have a close relative that holds to these self-same beliefs and applies them liberally to anyone she sees begging on the streets or conning people out of their hard-earned cash, but then pays $20 to get her fortune told.

Boggles the mind.
 

DeletedUser

So far, most of the so called facts you've presented (in the other thread), were wrong. Starting with the Roma population percentage in Romania and their history. I do not see how these facts and evidence which are evidently wrong can even start changing my opinion. So I don't think it is really that we won't change our minds, is that you don't have hard facts. And if you see me in your relative, you're wrong. I never had my fortune told by anybody and I do give food (rarely money) to beggars. ;)
 

DeletedUser9470

Hellstromm said:
Not even sure I should bother to show just how distorted these arguments are. Seriously, the investment of time and energy to convince yourselves and others of the "evil" you purport merely demonstrates how facts, evidence, statistics and common sense are unlikely to sway your beliefs. Indeed, I have a close relative that holds to these self-same beliefs and applies them liberally to anyone she sees begging on the streets or conning people out of their hard-earned cash, but then pays $20 to get her fortune told.

Boggles the mind.
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And here we see rebecca black by far surpassed in the trolling domain!
No one thought it possible. ofc, in this world, anything is possible.
 

DeletedUser17649

Duduie said:
Not really. Everybody should pay income tax. Every person, organization, company, or non-profit is subject to the income tax. How's that different?
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My point is that there isn't really a different, people are right , or saints, given the chance. But some people have ways to get away with that other hasn't.
___________________________________________________

Anyway, if you abuse your children the state should re-locate them to someone who can take care of them.
 

DeletedUser

Duduie, -Neo-, will provide a detailed response when I'm able. Been on the road accessing the forums via an iPhone. In the meantime, by all means add more to this discussion. :)
 

DeletedUser9470

Hellstromm said:
Duduie, -Neo-, will provide a detailed response when I'm able. Been on the road accessing the forums via an iPhone. In the meantime, by all means add more to this discussion. :)
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i phones are crap arent they!
:D
 

DeletedUser

lol, they are a pain in the ass to access the net, but a lot of their other apps are great, really helping me to get things done.
 

DeletedUser17649

Thought about buying one, changed my mind when I helped my little brother with his.
 

DeletedUser

nice way of derailing this thread HS, especially after starting it...:p
 

DeletedUser

Hehe, wasn't my intention. To be frank, both duduie's and especially -neo-'s responses to my doubts of their willingness to consider evidence that I may present, merely reaffirmed my suspicions, as they demonstrated something I was hoping they didn't have --- a degree of investment into their arguments.

Duduie, -Neo-, others who have argued here regarding Romani (gypsies) --- understand that what I present here later (once I get somewhere to use my laptop) is not in any way a personal attack. The circumstances here are in many ways similar to the symptoms and causations that have been witnessed with other races, such as that of Jews, Blacks, mestizos, most every minority group. It is not merely the reaction of others (in the form of prejudice and/or discrimination, in some cases violent), nor the defensive/survival actions of the minorities (actions that are sometimes criminal or violent), but also the historical catalysts or precursors that has resulted in a modern day blurring of causation. I.e., chicken or egg.

And just as in the question of the chicken or the egg, the answer is both and neither. That is because --- the question is flawed.
 
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DeletedUser

Yeah well I've been told I "seem" aggressive and sometimes been accused of being angry when I am nothing but calm. It might be because we are not face to face but debating in writing. But I am nothing but calm and I never take a debate personally. So no, I never took any of your replies as personal attack. I feel like I need to defend myself here. When you said that the facts and evidence you would present won't make a difference for me, I took it as a tactic, not as an attack. When I said that the facts you've presented so far were false, was a defense tactic against yours, to make yours null and thus inviting you to "bring it on". :p
Ready when you are HS. No hardfeelings what so ever. I thought I made that obvious when I said that I can understand why such a conclusion was drawn, after looking at their situation from the outside. I can relate to that.
 

DeletedUser9470

for sure, the symtoms and causations for racism towards minorities are the same as any conflict.
issues > demonisation and generalisation> required action.
I understand where anti-racist factions are coming from, and indeed, racism is bang out of order.
but these very clever criminals, are using this system to their own advantage, fuelling the racist fire to cover up their criminal activities.

the point is that regardless of race, this criminal activity, whether that be theft, human trafficking, child labour, slavery, is a way of life for the romani people.
there are 2 very different ways of living the romani way.
Making a living from travelling from town to town selling hand crafted items isnt a problem.
Making a living from setting up a massive camp outside a city for the sole purpose of stealing via child labour, slavery and human trafficking is.
10 kids stealing between £6000-£10000 a day!
selling "untouched" girls for £25000!
the very core of the issu is the fact that these people rely on our own human rights policies to get away with it. ie relying on people who are screaming "racist!".
 

DeletedUser

Rannon said:
I guess that I'm a bit nit-picky but, Jews aren't a race, neither are they an ethnic group.
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Correct they are a society of cultural and religious group, however with this label like any label most will judge. Just like your traveller's for the good or bad.
Traveller's have a free life style were most anchored down citizens are prisoners in their own right. But more often or not throughout different countries the governent through different means are trying to make these people more modern citizen's. Is it right ? I say NO !
I think we have lost too many rights and we have little to no say in our countries. So power to the few that are out there still getting one over the fat governments.:)
 
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DeletedUser

The problem is not their freedom, but the price we pay in order for them to maintain their freedom. See, their lifestyle does not involve having and maintaining a job. In the same time, they need money to survive. No job + need money = illegalities. Wouldn't you think there's something wrong in that picture? Don't you think they are a bit selfish and lack respect for anything around them? And they are not a product of hatred, they are a product of their free lifestyle. I don't care how many rights they are entitled to, as long as their rights do not come against mine. I think I have the right to feel safe walking down the street. I think I have the right to my hard earned money. I think I have the right to refuse giving beggars money. And I have the right to not be called racist because I care about my rights. They are not called racists when they care about their right to a free lifestyle and steal my money to maintain their "right". They are called oppressed, discriminated. Am I not discriminated against when a gypsy sends his kid to rob me and the authorities cannot do anything about it? Am I not discriminated against when a gypsy gets hired for his ethnicity, even though I am more qualified, because the employer gets state grants for doing so? Am I not discriminated against when social services help gypsy families who don't even speak Romanian (and keep sending their children to beg and steal) on my tax money?
 

DeletedUser

Hmm, I'm finally at a location where I can give a detailed rebuttal --- and find myself not in the mood. Ah well. Guess if anyone wants to add more to this, by all means.
 

DeletedUser

well... not saying that there's a trend or something, just pointing an isolated case

http://www.thisisleicestershire.co....id-Leicester/story-13396317-detail/story.html

Two women have been jailed for a cunning £54,000 jewellery theft in Leicester's Golden Mile.
At Leicester Crown Court yesterday, Sava (38) and Niculescu (28), Romanians who travelled to Leicester from Luton to commit the offence, were each jailed for 16 months.
Both had admitted committing the theft, on June 21. Their fingerprints were found at the crime scene.
While being concealed by the two other women, Sava reached over the counter and pulled out a handful of jewellery and then the large tray.
Judge Robert Brown said: "These two were part of a team who came to this city targeting high value goods and they went to the 'Gold Quarter' to steal."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=P2JovBOx6N8

(hope no one posted this before...)
 
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