DeletedUser14280
I had that idea myself.
Maybe increase that time though, to 10 minutes or half an hour.
Maybe increase that time though, to 10 minutes or half an hour.
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DeletedUser
As already pointed multiple times by lots of people, the simplest solution would be:
just add x minutes delay before your actual sleep
Example: (x=5)
When you press that "Sleep" button in a town where your character currently stand, the countdown timer will start at 08:05:00 (ie. 8h 5 min). Your actual sleep will start at 07:59:59. Lets call that 5 min delay as booking-procedure or something.
I guess additonal five minutes window is more than enough for group of fighters to challenge the campers, and waiting five minutes to sleep in your own hotel is not long enough to make you complain either.
Developers just need to add x minutes in the starting countdown, just like they add travelling-time when a player is intended to sleep in far-away hotel.
I can't think any simpler & more practical solution other than this.
That would seem logical , but the counter would need to be longer than 5 minutes , the duel could be started , but as it stand if the person challenged gets to a hotel before the 10 minutes of the duel are up then the duel is null and the challenger loses the 12 energy for the duel :sad:
DeletedUser
Greeeat idea
DeletedUser14280
Maybe it should just be made that sleeping doesn't interrupt a duel in progress.
DeletedUser
Maybe it should just be made that sleeping doesn't interrupt a duel in progress.
This might be the best idea yet. Is you make the challenge running to the hotel will not protect you. But once in the hotel you can no longer be challenged.
Let me explain this to make sure everyone understands it. If you are not sleeping and someone challenges you for the next 10 minutes it don't matter what you are doing or where you go the duel will complete even if you run to the hotel to sleep. Once in the hotel and sleeping no one can challenge you until you wake up.
DeletedUser1105
This might be the best idea yet. Is you make the challenge running to the hotel will not protect you. But once in the hotel you can no longer be challenged.
Let me explain this to make sure everyone understands it. If you are not sleeping and someone challenges you for the next 10 minutes it don't matter what you are doing or where you go the duel will complete even if you run to the hotel to sleep. Once in the hotel and sleeping no one can challenge you until you wake up.
Whilst that is a good idea to help against camping, it is also a disadvantage to non-duellers being attacked.
I've had numerous duel reports where I am sleeping, and have missed being duelled by a matter of minutes. This change would take that away.
DeletedUser
Let me clarify what I just said earlier.
Currently, developers already implemented adding some timer (ie. travel-time) to the sleeping timer.
sleeping timer = traveltime + actualsleep (try to sleep in foreign hotel, you'll see this for yourself; value for actualsleep is 8h; traveltime is zero if you sleep in hotel where your character currently stand)
Now we just need to add one more timer (ie. sleeping delay) to fix duel-sleep queue abuse, into this:
sleeping timer = traveltime + x + actualsleep (x is the delay in min)
Remember, a player is considered sleeping & safe, when they are inside actualsleep counter, not when the sleeping timer is started.
----------------------------------
If we have (x=5 min) delay, any HotelHero needs to stay awake for 15min (ie. 10 minutes from dueltimer+5 minutes sleeping delay) if he wants to duel one of your town member.
So if he awake & started hit the 'duel' button at 02:00:00 PM, then immediately hit 'sleep' button, he'll have two queue jobs, duel timer (10min), and sleeping timer (8h 5 min).
If he don't cancel those two jobs, then at 02:10:01 PM he will get a duel report (win/lose/enemy_is_protected_in_hotel), his sleeping timer start to counting down at 02:10:01 PM, but his actual sleep will start at 02:15:01 PM.
Your fighters in HotelHero's town will have chances to attack, starting from 02:00:01PM to 02:05:00PM, approx 5 minutes window to spot the HotelHero and click their duel button.
If we have (x=8 min) sleeping delay, then the HotelHero needs to stay awake for 18min (ie 10+8) if he wants to duel one of your town member.
..and so on
------------------------------
See? Less headache for the developers. They don't need to check whether it is foreign hotel or your own hotel, or whether your previous job is duel or just regular job, etc.
And we all will be happy, because at least we have a chance (in x minutes) to challenge the HotelHero back.
-------------------------------
Now I prefer to have value of x between 3min-7min (either fixed or random value). This is more than enough. Our town used to hit together, one enemy in 1-2 min timeframe in order to KO that player.
I strongly disagree if value of x is equal to dueltimer (ie. 10min). God forbid if x is lots higher than dueltimer, for example x=30min.
Why?
A. If you just awake from your own hotel, then suddenly 10 archrivals teleported to your town, what would you do? They have 10 minutes dueltimer, while you have 30 minutes delay to sleep in your own town. Give the defenders a chance to duck themselves, we don't need to drastically change the game-mechanic.
B. Majority of people that doing jobs would be very pissed off if they have to wait 30 min just to sleep in the hotel. Remember that the sleepingtimer affects everybody.
If the sleeping delay is spesific for certain condition, most likely that will put additional burden for developers, which means slower game improvements in other area.
What we need right now is simple & practical solution to the duel-sleep queue abuse.
Currently, developers already implemented adding some timer (ie. travel-time) to the sleeping timer.
sleeping timer = traveltime + actualsleep (try to sleep in foreign hotel, you'll see this for yourself; value for actualsleep is 8h; traveltime is zero if you sleep in hotel where your character currently stand)
Now we just need to add one more timer (ie. sleeping delay) to fix duel-sleep queue abuse, into this:
sleeping timer = traveltime + x + actualsleep (x is the delay in min)
Remember, a player is considered sleeping & safe, when they are inside actualsleep counter, not when the sleeping timer is started.
----------------------------------
If we have (x=5 min) delay, any HotelHero needs to stay awake for 15min (ie. 10 minutes from dueltimer+5 minutes sleeping delay) if he wants to duel one of your town member.
So if he awake & started hit the 'duel' button at 02:00:00 PM, then immediately hit 'sleep' button, he'll have two queue jobs, duel timer (10min), and sleeping timer (8h 5 min).
If he don't cancel those two jobs, then at 02:10:01 PM he will get a duel report (win/lose/enemy_is_protected_in_hotel), his sleeping timer start to counting down at 02:10:01 PM, but his actual sleep will start at 02:15:01 PM.
Your fighters in HotelHero's town will have chances to attack, starting from 02:00:01PM to 02:05:00PM, approx 5 minutes window to spot the HotelHero and click their duel button.
If we have (x=8 min) sleeping delay, then the HotelHero needs to stay awake for 18min (ie 10+8) if he wants to duel one of your town member.
..and so on
------------------------------
See? Less headache for the developers. They don't need to check whether it is foreign hotel or your own hotel, or whether your previous job is duel or just regular job, etc.
And we all will be happy, because at least we have a chance (in x minutes) to challenge the HotelHero back.
-------------------------------
Now I prefer to have value of x between 3min-7min (either fixed or random value). This is more than enough. Our town used to hit together, one enemy in 1-2 min timeframe in order to KO that player.
I strongly disagree if value of x is equal to dueltimer (ie. 10min). God forbid if x is lots higher than dueltimer, for example x=30min.
Why?
A. If you just awake from your own hotel, then suddenly 10 archrivals teleported to your town, what would you do? They have 10 minutes dueltimer, while you have 30 minutes delay to sleep in your own town. Give the defenders a chance to duck themselves, we don't need to drastically change the game-mechanic.
B. Majority of people that doing jobs would be very pissed off if they have to wait 30 min just to sleep in the hotel. Remember that the sleepingtimer affects everybody.
If the sleeping delay is spesific for certain condition, most likely that will put additional burden for developers, which means slower game improvements in other area.
What we need right now is simple & practical solution to the duel-sleep queue abuse.
DeletedUser
The delay has to be greater then 10 minutes or it does not take care of the problem. If someone wakes up from sleep and you lunch your attack then they go back to sleep, with a 5 min delay they go back to sleep and you can't hit them again because it takes you 10 minutes to lunch an attack. So anything less than 10 minutes does not take care of the issue.
Also, this should only apply to towns hotels besides your own. The intent is not to stop workers and non-duelers from getting mugged, it's to stop the practice of dueling someone and ducking back into a hotel. If you can't get to your own hotel then your out of luck and have to wait as well.
Also, it should only apply to the first sleep in the queue. If you queue up 4 sleeps in a row you should not have to leave the hotel between each one.
Also, this should only apply to towns hotels besides your own. The intent is not to stop workers and non-duelers from getting mugged, it's to stop the practice of dueling someone and ducking back into a hotel. If you can't get to your own hotel then your out of luck and have to wait as well.
Also, it should only apply to the first sleep in the queue. If you queue up 4 sleeps in a row you should not have to leave the hotel between each one.
DeletedUser
It would have to be several hours to give people who can only login twice a day a chance.
I'll repeat what I've said before about thi line of solutions:
It only helps those who don't have a life and those who have to much time on their hands. Login every X minutes for up to 8 hours to be able to fight someone is compulsory behaviour. The solution is appalling to me, because it narrows the group of people who are able to play this game without any chance to outgrow the pack. In a good game, as it is now (with some minor flaws), every player with decent skills has that opportunity.
I'll repeat what I've said before about thi line of solutions:
It only helps those who don't have a life and those who have to much time on their hands. Login every X minutes for up to 8 hours to be able to fight someone is compulsory behaviour. The solution is appalling to me, because it narrows the group of people who are able to play this game without any chance to outgrow the pack. In a good game, as it is now (with some minor flaws), every player with decent skills has that opportunity.
DeletedUser14280
I'm pretty sure all the duelers who miss out on a duel, thanks to you sleeping, think you're a despicable dodger.Whilst that is a good idea to help against camping, it is also a disadvantage to non-duellers being attacked.
I've had numerous duel reports where I am sleeping, and have missed being duelled by a matter of minutes. This change would take that away.
If duels weren't interrupted by sleeping, you might be dueled a bit more,
but you can make the money back, and you'll recover the health while you sleep.
And there'll be a lot less ninjadventurers (with a silent d).
DeletedUser
Or .. if the duel is interrupted simply give the challenger back his/her 12 energy points.
DeletedUser
It would have to be several hours to give people who can only login twice a day a chance.
I'll repeat what I've said before about thi line of solutions:
It only helps those who don't have a life and those who have to much time on their hands. Login every X minutes for up to 8 hours to be able to fight someone is compulsory behaviour. The solution is appalling to me, because it narrows the group of people who are able to play this game without any chance to outgrow the pack. In a good game, as it is now (with some minor flaws), every player with decent skills has that opportunity.
As it stands now you have no chance of hitting the person that is camping in your hotel. I said has to be greater then 10 minutes minimum, but I don't really see them making it hours just to help those that can't log in that often, as that would mean that non-duelers would be severally effected as well.
DeletedUser
I kind of like the idea that if the duel was initiated before the person went to sleep then it should continue. This give people the 10 minutes window to lunch an attack while not effecting non-duelers.
DeletedUser
@ original idea:
I would not be for this option for the simple fact that it favors duelers too much by allowing them to attack players sleeping in any hotel.
There do exist ways to combat this exploit, as has been mentioned. My favorite is to have a proxy town to duel from (built in a remote part of the map). The proxy town has no hotel and is where all the duelers are moved to at the time of war/hotel camping.
Another (much harder) counter tactic is to time your attacks against the camper so that your attack time overlaps his 'estimated wait' before he comes out to duel again. I've personally only successfully done this once and it was a long, drawn out process that required way to much time on my end.
In the end, I'm for a wait timer when anyone attempts to sleep in a foreign hotel. I figure you can work it similar to the current wait timer when you leave/join towns but at a much smaller level. Something like a 5 minute wait multiplied by the amount of times you've initiated sleeping in the past 24 hours or something along those lines.
~Z~
I would not be for this option for the simple fact that it favors duelers too much by allowing them to attack players sleeping in any hotel.
There do exist ways to combat this exploit, as has been mentioned. My favorite is to have a proxy town to duel from (built in a remote part of the map). The proxy town has no hotel and is where all the duelers are moved to at the time of war/hotel camping.
Another (much harder) counter tactic is to time your attacks against the camper so that your attack time overlaps his 'estimated wait' before he comes out to duel again. I've personally only successfully done this once and it was a long, drawn out process that required way to much time on my end.
In the end, I'm for a wait timer when anyone attempts to sleep in a foreign hotel. I figure you can work it similar to the current wait timer when you leave/join towns but at a much smaller level. Something like a 5 minute wait multiplied by the amount of times you've initiated sleeping in the past 24 hours or something along those lines.
~Z~
DeletedUser
Here is a much simpler solution that I'm sure everyone would like and agree would solve the problem:
If you're attacked in your town and the last person that attacked you is sleeping in your hotel, then you get to shoot him in his sleep!!! Take a look at it this way, if you are a resident of a town, you're going to have them all on your side. If someone walks into your town and shoots you, then they will all be against him(her) and if they're stupid enough to lay down and sleep where they just shot someone, they deserve 8 rounds in the head. This would be easy to implement because it would check the last person you dueled in your queue and then check to see if the duel occurred in the town and if the dueling person is asleep in the hotel (if they're awake, then it's a normal duel, and the system just tells you that they're there until you attempt to duel).
Problem SOLVED!
The attacking dueler can still go to a nearby town, he just can't hang out and expect all of the town folk to stand for it.
If you're attacked in your town and the last person that attacked you is sleeping in your hotel, then you get to shoot him in his sleep!!! Take a look at it this way, if you are a resident of a town, you're going to have them all on your side. If someone walks into your town and shoots you, then they will all be against him(her) and if they're stupid enough to lay down and sleep where they just shot someone, they deserve 8 rounds in the head. This would be easy to implement because it would check the last person you dueled in your queue and then check to see if the duel occurred in the town and if the dueling person is asleep in the hotel (if they're awake, then it's a normal duel, and the system just tells you that they're there until you attempt to duel).
Problem SOLVED!
The attacking dueler can still go to a nearby town, he just can't hang out and expect all of the town folk to stand for it.
DeletedUser
that wouldnt work in practice , you are forgetting that its rarely the "civilians that shoot the campers back.
It would be easier to implement a cooldown after a duel as mentioned in another thread to allow a window of oppertunity.
However there is rumoured to be a new system going to be coming in where you need to be in the same location to duel someone.
When that occurs and how that will affect things is anyones guess
It would be easier to implement a cooldown after a duel as mentioned in another thread to allow a window of oppertunity.
However there is rumoured to be a new system going to be coming in where you need to be in the same location to duel someone.
When that occurs and how that will affect things is anyones guess
DeletedUser
No rumour - the devs said it.
DeletedUser
that wouldnt work in practice , you are forgetting that its rarely the "civilians that shoot the campers back.
It would be easier to implement a cooldown after a duel as mentioned in another thread to allow a window of oppertunity.
However there is rumoured to be a new system going to be coming in where you need to be in the same location to duel someone.
When that occurs and how that will affect things is anyones guess
Up until my first duel (yesterday) as the attacker, I thought you had to go to where the person was and not just the persons town because, and this was my thinking, what if the person wasn't in their own town but out jumping from quest to quest to job and only returning to deposit the money and sleep (there wouldn't be enough time to attack most players). When a player is doing a quest, at least they will probably be there for 2 hours (10 minutes minimum, but who does a job for 10 minutes after the tutorial phase - work for 40 minutes). It does make more sense this way, but then you have to be very careful of picking your jobs because there could be a player just a few levels higher that is doing that quest too and when you "pop in" their priorities could change from doing the job to doing you in. During the past month, I've been going out of my way to pick job sites away from large cities/towns just so I wouldn't get dueled, now I find out that it didn't matter that I hauled my ass (or more accurately, my ass hauled me) across land that I didn't to go through because it never mattered.
DeletedUser
that wouldnt work in practice , you are forgetting that its rarely the "civilians that shoot the campers back.
I hate to dispute this, but I grew up in the rural mountains of Colorado in the 60's and 70's (and lived there through the early 90's) and I know an awful lot about the history of the old west, not the Hollywood history. So many terms and facts have been distorted for the sake of entertainment, that most people have no idea what the "old west" was like. Our town elder, for lack of a better term, told us what it was like when I was in elementary school and it is (or at least was back when I was in school) taught the way it happened locally rather than the John Wayne style. Most people were shot in the back, shot in their sleep and lynched or otherwise run out of town by a mob (you see, a gun only carries so many bullets and yours doesn't do you any good if you have more opponents with even more guns). Medicine wasn't advanced enough to deal with infection and if you could kill someone with less risk to yourself, then frequently that was the way it was done. If a sheriff went after someone, it was usually with a whole bunch of people called a posse or even better yet, by merely getting the town together to put up a reward.
Ranchers and farmers were not these wimps you see portrayed on the silver screen. They were usually a damn good shot with a rifle because you have to pay for your ammunition materials and usually make your own bullets ... not like walking into a store today and asking for a box of .22 long for target practice. Shooting coyotes, wolves, gophers, prairie dogs, etc. to keep their farms safe was a routine procedure for them (I could tell you about the time I was shot in the ass with rock salt for trespassing on a ranch, but that's another long long story, and I still have the scar to prove it).
People were routinely shot in the course of being captured because it was safer for the person doing the capturing even if sometimes it was only to make sure they didn't escape ... again. The wanted posters of the time often gave a "Dead or Alive" for more serious crimes because they didn't care about civil rights like today ... if you did something bad enough to get your name on a poster, you were guilty beyond the local laws opinion of reasonable doubt ... forget about fingerprints and other "evidence". It was a very tough time, in a tough new land and even gunslingers didn't take chances if they didn't have to. They were fast or at least first, not stupid. When guns were shot, it's not like today with a small puff of smoke but rather a rather large cloud of smoke was produced which effectively blocked the shooters vision (making a shootout in the streets very ineffective ... you can't shoot what you can't see). What we think of gunfights today are closer to the fights that erupted from card games and drunken disputes. Cheaters were usually dealt with quickly in gambling establishments and their guilt or innocence was based more on who their friends were (ie, were they locals or travelers pass through) than the actual facts. One of the few recorded fights in history that actually occurred in a similar fashion to what we know of in the movies is the fight in Missouri right after the Civil War and I've forgotten whether it was in this fight, but I think it was in another, where Wild Bill shot and killed his own deputy who was actually running to his aid (running up behind him actually surprised Wild Bill who turned and shot him in the head). Another reason the gunfights didn't occur as the Hollywood model is that the technology of the cartridge bullet was new and not even close to being perfected. Moisture would penetrate the loads or cartidges and misfires would occur very frequently ... gunfighters would actually reload their pistols several times a day, according to some accounts, to ensure their guns fired when they needed them to do so. This was a tell-tale sign of a good gunfigher, so good in fact that if someone wanted to get a quick reputation as a gunfighter he could fake it by doing this action correctly (if you know how to do and you're constantly doing it, there must be a reason ...).
There are some good, but lengthy stories, of the old west you can find at:
http://www.theoutlaws.com and they tend to give a lot more of the truth behind the fiction of what we "think" we know as old west stories. Here's a quick link I found as well that may be of interest to lovers of this game and that era : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunslinger#Fact_versus_fiction.2C_gunfights
There are also some nice historical sites too, but nothing beats growing up and hearing 1st and 2nd hand (second hand being from people whose parents were around in the 1800's) about the true old west and even occasionally experiencing it in the "code" that the old-timers out there continue to live by even today. To paraphrase one of these old-timers that I was exposed to when I was young, "In my day you kept to yourself because people lived a lot on their reputation and there's no damage that a well placed bullet can't fix." (basically meaning, you could be shot just for offending the wrong person regardless of who they were).
To the admins: If this is considered too "Off Topic" or if I took way too long to make a short point, then by all means remove it or move it to another area. If nothing else, I hope it was good and/or educational for those who read it.
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