A small change to hotels workings

DeletedUser

There are two threads around regarding hiding in hotels on the first page of the brainfart section. One lost my attention after it had degraded into flaming on the 4th or 5th page of the thread, another is about kicking people out of hotels.

Aim of both initiators of the other threads appears to reducing effects of people that use hit & hide tactics on the game. The 100% protection offered by hotels makes hit & hide tactics viable for people who "don't have a life" or have to much time at hand for other reasons.

My suggestion to reduce the effectiveness of hotels for this tactic is not giving hotel visitors a 100% protection. To deter duelers that seek for easy targets a bit, duelling costs for people who challenge hotel visitors have been increased and gains lowered.

Janitor's closet
Recovers 50 energy points, 477 Health point
Dueler needs 75 energy points to attack you and receives 10% of the usual spoils and experience if he wins.
$ 15

Dormitory
Recovers 64 energy points, 536 Health point
Dueler needs 61 energy points to attack you and receives 20% of the usual spoils and experience if he wins.
$ 45


Guest room
Recovers 75 energy points, 596 Health point
Dueler needs 50 energy points to attack you and receives 30% of the usual spoils and experience if he wins.
$ 90

Apartment
Recovers 88 energy points, 656 Health point
Dueler needs 37 energy points to attack you and receives 40% of the usual spoils and experience if he wins.
$ 150

Luxury apartment
Recovers 100 energy points, 745 Health point
Dueler needs 25 energy points to attack you and receives 50% of the usual spoils and experience if he wins.
$ 225
Click to expand...
This setup might also make it more interesting to use cheap rooms when people are in their home town.

Edit: Below is the table that is used at the moment

Janitor's closet
Recovers 64 energy points, 477 Health point
$ 10

Dormitory
Recovers 72 energy points, 536 Health point
$ 40

Guest room
Recovers 80 energy points, 596 Health point
$ 90

Apartment
Recovers 88 energy points, 656 Health point
$ 160

Luxury apartment
Recovers 100 energy points, 745 Health point
$ 250
Click to expand...
 
Last edited by a moderator:

DeletedUser1105

I like this idea, but surely it should be the other way around? I.e. the more you pay for a room, the harder it is to attack you and the less spoils they recieve?
 

DeletedUser

By doing it this way, people who use hit & hide will have to chose between protection on one side and quick preparation for next hit on the other.
 

DeletedUser

True, but he'll only have half the energy points when compared to the expncive room and still doesn't have 100% protection in case he pisses off to many people.
 

DeletedUser

i do think that being in the hotel should have some safety to it. the exploit is really the idea of jumping in and out. this concept would make it possible to duel a person in a hotel which would be a deterant to the loop hole.

here are the ideas ive seen
limit the amount you can stay in foreign hotels in towns in which you have dueled.
lynch mob can force a person out of the hotel
make it possible to attack a person in the hotel.

the final two are really similar in their basic idea. the hotel is elminated from being 100% safe. the first one only limits how much you can stay in a single hotel. i would lean toward that one myself.

the idea of a lynch mob could work as well. you could throw a person out of your hotel. perhaps they are simply awake in your town or maybe they get moved to their home hotel still sleeping (safe from attack).

just ideas rambling in my mind.
 

DeletedUser

Regarding the lynch mob:

My experience with other online games has shown that there will eventually be lamers town, lamers clan, lamers guild, lamers whatever, that organises groups to abuse ways for groups to attack weaker groups or individuals. Reason is that it is often considdered safer to fight weaker opponents because that will provide less setbacks and will have them end up on top of the charts for that reason. The lynch mob concept is ideal for them I think if not given proper checks.

That being at the bottom without chance to outgrow it due to people constantly hitting you from above ain't fun should be clear.

Regarding the banning from foreign hotels:

Attacking would get a lot riskier if you are unable to recover from your wounds when needed.

Why my suggestion:

The reason I chose the setup in the first post is that it offers a way to address individuals that constantly pick on one target (group of targets) using hit & hide while making the method to do that to expencive to be used on daily basis.
 

DeletedUser

You still need to address Azuk's question: where do adventurers fit in? This is a little more thought out than most hotel limiting/anti-camping suggestions, but it removes the only advantage dueling adventurers have. Instead of getting the full benefit of level 2 or 4 hotels for free, they would be forced to use the cheapest hotel rooms for the most protection.

If this suggestion is implemented, thousands of dueling adventurers lose their only advantage.
 

DeletedUser

I don't like this idea at all. Now before everyone jumps on me I do agree that this problem needs to be fixed. When in the hotel you need to be 100% safe. As many people have suggested if you go to a town and duel you must wait 10 minutes after the duel complets to sleep in the hotel. This will have a minimal effect on most duelers. In most cases it would take more than 10 minutes for people to get to the duelers town to return the duel. Duelers using this exploit will find that it will no longer work because the town that they have been hitting will be waiting for them and now be able to duel back.
 

DeletedUser

todarling said:
I don't like this idea at all. Now before everyone jumps on me I do agree that this problem needs to be fixed. When in the hotel you need to be 100% safe. As many people have suggested if you go to a town and duel you must wait 10 minutes after the duel complets to sleep in the hotel. This will have a minimal effect on most duelers. In most cases it would take more than 10 minutes for people to get to the duelers town to return the duel. Duelers using this exploit will find that it will no longer work because the town that they have been hitting will be waiting for them and now be able to duel back.
Click to expand...
I agree with todarling. This idea closes one loophole and opens a much wider one, hotels need to be safe. I wouldn't want to be dueled if I was in a hotel healing up after a work accident. But more of a problem: you would never be safe, if a town you were at war with wanted to KO you, they could do it very easily, getting to the hotel after one attack would no longer protect you, now the second and third attackers just have to pay more energy.
I actually think the easiest solution is to make dueling and sleeping mutually exclusive on the assignment queue. This would not prevent sleep camping, but it would be much harder, as the attacker would have to stay online until the duel is over in order to put their character to bed, and if they weren't paying full attention and didn't do it immediately, there will still be a chance for revenge.
 

DeletedUser

I appreciate the idea has some merits, but from a personal perspective I would hate to see it implemented. My to characters are a worker and an adventurer, and I have developed my whole game play around knowing that I am 100% safe while sleeping.
 

DeletedUser

I'll adress three things:
* Adventurer
* Mutual exclusion of sleeping & fighting in the queue
* Waiting time after a duel

* The adventurer fits in where he does now. Below is the reason why...

8,00 %/energy gains for the attacker that attacks one who's awake.
2,00 %/energy gains for an attack in a luxery apartment.
1,08 %/energy gains for an attack in an apartment.
0,60 %/energy gains for an attack in a guest room.
0,33 %/energy gains for an attack in a dormitory.
0,13 %/energy gains for an attack in a closet.

Would any fighter stupid enought to not aim for one awake also be stupid enough to prefer an attack on a dormitory over one on a closet? Teach the idiot a lesson, because I expect that most are not.

* Mutual exclusion of sleeping & fighting won't work, because ...

An attacker can wait until the queue has emptied after his last attack. Increasing waiting time is not an option in my opinion.

* Increasing the waiting time after a duel makes risky attacks more dangerous.

When one is beaten up in a fight, one must be able to flee to (relative) safety. With my setup the closet, dormatory and probably the guest room would be safe enough to keep most revengefull people away. With delayed end of attacking, a counter attack might be fatal for overambitious fighters.
 

DeletedUser

We don't need to modify the hotel. All we need is a time delay after a duel before the attacker can sleep in the hotel. We do not need different things for the different character classes either. I play in world 5 and am an adventurer, I am also in the top 25 as far as dueler ranking goes. The name I use here is not my game name if anybody tries to look me up in world 5.
 

DeletedUser

I dont like this idea mainly because it would give builders another unfair disadvantage by letting duelers still hit us while we are sleeping, making it so we still can get killed when we sleep just because we need energy or because were avoiding a war.
 

DeletedUser

Why would any sencible fighter attack a worker in a hotel for 2% when he can attack one for 8% that is at work? (Yes, it's a a serious question!)

My idea isn't a disadvantage for regular workers that work as much as they sleep, or even for adventurers that attack a few times while sleeping in between and perhaps working a bit. My suggestion would disadvantage those who hit & hide.
 

DeletedUser

In foreign towns only, not your home town Hotel.

Limit the number of times you can cue up sleep to two times within a 24 hour time span.

The people that abuse the duel/sleep/duel/sleep routine are actually doing it far more than 2 times a day.

Remember the Adventurers ability is to stay in foreign towns Hotel up to level 2 for free. It doesn't say your advantage is cue up multiple stays. All classes can do that.

Let's say the limit was 2 stays a day, this would in no way affect the pure adventurer. As he would be traveling the map seeking out his fortune. The dueling adventurer would still be fine as long as he wasn't one of the ones doing the duel/sleep/duel/sleep routine, which is what we want to get stopped anyway. Right? Regardless of which character class that is doing it, it needs to end.

The Hotel should be a place for everyone to stay and be safe and heal their wounds. Not stage vicious attacks on weaker members and then repeat. We just need to end the duel/hide/duel/hide routine that some people take advantage of.

This idea, it doesn't matter if you came to the town to duel. That doesn't apply, It also doesn't allow the Mayor or anyone else to kick you from the Hotel. It simple reduces the amount of times you can stay in a foreign hotel in 24 hour time period.

Duelers (All classes): It allows them to be safe and heal before heading home. Which that is the intended purpose of the Hotel.

Adventurers : It allows them to stay for free like always. Just limited to 2 stays like everyone else. Let's be honest if your staying more than 2 stays your most likely abusing the hotel and using it to stage attacks.

Hotel Bandits : It should reduce if not eliminate this habit, since they will have to travel to the next town to stage their attacks. Which then leaves them vulnerable to a window of pay back attacks. Which under the current circumstance is near impossible if they never leave the hotel for more than a 10 minute duel.

The reason people do this is because they fear paybacks and this is how they avoid it. If they knew they could no longer hide 24/7, most would stop doing it and spend more time in their own towns Hotel. Which that is the only Hotel that people should be allowed to hide in, if they feel that they need to.
 

DeletedUser

or another person posted in the other thread about making a war status that can be turned off or on that bars peolpe from a town you are at war with from being able to stay in your hotel. also could work in alliance members to get discounts at your hotels.
 

DeletedUser

Interesting idea.

But I think it would just benefit duelers too much.
 
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