Gun Control (Right to Bear Arms)

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DeletedUser

Mandating separate storage of weapons and ammo is both stupid and draconian. It renders them useless for their intended use, protection against intruders. Anyone that researches accidental deaths knows that accidental death by firearm is very rare at only one death per year per million firearms in America. However, swimming pools cause one death per year per only 11,000 pools. You would save far more lives mandating that pools be stored away from their water. Better yet, put governors on automobiles so they only travel 10 miles per hour. That would save many lives.
 

DeletedUser

Mandating separate storage of weapons and ammo is both stupid and draconian. It renders them useless for their intended use, protection against intruders. Anyone that researches accidental deaths knows that accidental death by firearm is very rare at only one death per year per million firearms in America. However, swimming pools cause one death per year per only 11,000 pools. You would save far more lives mandating that pools be stored away from their water. Better yet, put governors on automobiles so they only travel 10 miles per hour. That would save many lives.

Now let's see you pull some statistics on legal weapons used in crimes.

mr penny; please stop posting whilst on drugs.
 

DeletedUser

Mandating separate storage of weapons and ammo is both stupid and draconian. It renders them useless for their intended use, protection against intruders. Anyone that researches accidental deaths knows that accidental death by firearm is very rare at only one death per year per million firearms in America. However, swimming pools cause one death per year per only 11,000 pools. You would save far more lives mandating that pools be stored away from their water. Better yet, put governors on automobiles so they only travel 10 miles per hour. That would save many lives.
Actually we have a law requiring all privately owned pools to be completely enclosed by a child-proof fence. We also have strict road rules and licensing requirements for drivers just as we have strict gun laws and licensing requirements for shooters. If it honestly makes you feel safer to know that there is a loaded gun nearby when you are sleeping then I think you are insane. It would terrify me.
 

DeletedUser

If guns are banned, then there are plenty of spent shell casings laying around. Not to mention plenty of people make home made guns everywhere, such as the IRA, Ted Kazinsky type people, and even the common redneck.


ted-kaczynski-gun.jpg


From a simple .22 LR handgun that still can kill a man


chechenhomemade.jpg


To something that looks dangerous



5barrelshotgun677.jpg


And even a 5 barrel shotgun...



People can make guns and you can't stop them unless you illegally spy on them.


People will always have guns, and you will never be able to take away guns completely. The people will find a way, its animal nature to. Humans have the ability to kill and maim, and the ones that want to cannot be controlled. If that means bringing a chainsaw to the workplace, like the nutjob who did it a while back, as a way to calm themselves down, then they will eventually get themselves into jail for just about anything.
 
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DeletedUser

People will always have guns, and you will never be able to take away guns completely. The people will find a way, its animal nature to. Humans have the ability to kill and maim, and the ones that want to cannot be controlled.
People will always take drugs, but that doesn't mean we should start selling pure meth and heroine in the local shops, and giving them away with every liquor purchase over $100. Weapons need to be restricted for public safety, it really is that simple.
But of course I forgot, restricting guns doesn't work does it?:
After 112 people were shot dead in 11 mass shootings* in a decade, Australia collected and destroyed categories of firearms designed to kill many people quickly. In his immediate reaction to the Port Arthur massacre, Prime Minister John Howard said of semi-automatic rifles and shotguns: "There is no legitimate interest served in my view by the free availability in this country of weapons of this kind… That is why we have proposed a comprehensive package of reforms designed to implement tougher, more effective and uniform gun laws."

As study co-author Philip Alpers points out: "The new legislation's first declared aim was to reduce the risk of similar gun massacres. In the 10½ years since the gun buy-back announcement, no mass shootings have occurred in Australia."
By 2002/03, Australia's rate of 0.27 firearm-related homicides per 100,000 population had dropped to one-fifteenth that of the United States.
(from http://www.medfac.usyd.edu.au/news/news/2006/Dec/061214.php )


Yeah you guys are obviously right. Gun control laws are a terrible thing.:unsure:
That article was written in 2006, and there still have been no mass shooting incidents in Australia (that is, a shooting incident in which four or more people were shot) since.

But I'm sure there are loads of criminals and murderers out there, rubbing their hands with glee at our lack of household handguns, biding their time before they decide to actually start using their illegal weapons.:blink:
 

DeletedUser11019

the criminal factor of the person is allways there.
but leave that to the criminals.

the laws are trying to get tighter coz o accidental drunken fights,
or children finding the house hold gun.

in south africa,, the criminal will target your house..because YOU HAVE a gun.
in american,, criminals can do more crime ,,because its so easy to accour one.
in australia..there are still nut nuts,,but they seem to be doing something.
in mexico...this year has been the bloodies year yet.

i agree with David Schofield
people will allways come up with some form of weapon....(coz some people think they cool)
less guns and more control = less murders , less gun crime, and less accidents

face it....you dont need an uzi to go duck hunting.
 

DeletedUser

the black penny; either start making sense and post relevant posts, or go away.
Your drug-induced posts are not wanted.

George; keep up the good posts.
I fully agree, and have nothing more to add as you beat me to it.
 

DeletedUser

@George Hurst:

So you're saying, you would restrict Firearms from the Public, but not the private, because if that's what you're saying then I have to admitt, I your reasoning there is very good.

Guns in public are not safe, but it's the people may still carry them which can be a danger or helpful, depending on who's who and who's in the right place at the right time; Example would be a good citizen who is carrying a firearm and a mentally unstable criminal citizen who is carrying a firearm, if they are in a quick stop and the criminal decides to rob it and he starts to try executing hostages when the cops show up, the armed citizen would be very good to have around because the criminals these days are more... willing... to execute hostages, so a savior citizen who shoots the perp (lethal or nonlethal) could save the entire store from even more un-needed bloodshed. Even if you ban citizens from carrying guns in public, private and everywhere else, people will still keep and hide guns or make their own, it's not rocket science and you don't need to be einstein to figure it out. If something is avalable, people will get it, banned or not, just like drugs.
 

DeletedUser

Or the would-be hero would get himself, and/or others killed in the effort to help due to his lack of training.

How about another example a regular Joe is carrying his 9mm.
He gets into a heated argument, looses his temper, and shoots dead the other Joe,.
Now what would have been naught but a fist-fight, wich can be bad enough in itself, is a murder.

Don't know how many cases there are like that one, but massacres can be seen as a similar extension of the heated reation, and the availability of guns.
 

DeletedUser

Black Penny, the weapons used in Mexico, by the drug gangs, were largely obtained due to meekly-discriminate U.S. sales of weapons to corrupt governments/groups in central and south America, and from weapons stolen in the U.S.. Americans can commit more gun-related crimes because access to stolen guns is a breeze. In fact, it's a foolish thing to put a sticker on your window saying you're a member of the NRA, or that you are armed, because they'll rob your house when they know you're not home.

A far better utility for home defense is a dog (or many). A far better utility for personal defense is awareness and common sense training (yes, people need training in it). A gun is a lousy self-defense weapon. It is rarely accessible, at the ready, when you need it, and it can be taken away, or acquired from your household, and used against you.

As stated in earlier posts, which it seems neither you nor David bothered to read, the "right to bear arms" was included in the Constitution because of a time when armed militia could overthrow a government, when firearms were equalizers on a national scale. Nowadays governments are equipped with nuclear weapons, bacterial/chemical weapons, ICBMs, high explosives, heat-seeking missiles, tanks, etc and so on. If we were to take the context of the 2nd amendment at it's initial meaning (literal), we would allow citizens to arm themselves with nuclear weapons, bacterial/chemical weapons, ICBMs, high explosives, heat-seeking missiles, tanks, etc.

You see, it is because the world has changed, it is because the technological juggernaut of the military industrial complex has the potential to destabilize countries on a whim for profit, it is because weapons nowadays are no longer equalizers, but destabilizers, we have a problem with the literal interpretation of the 2nd amendment.

The 2nd amendment was written for a different time. Now, citizens of a nation (most any nation) can no longer hope to arm themselves if they wish to usurp control over a corrupt government. It is simply unreasonable to put assault weapons in the hands of mere citizens. It is insane to allow individuals to wield nuclear weapons. It is irrational to think that the intentions of the United States' founding fathers was to endanger the lives of its citizens by allowing them to possess mass destruction weapons. Such things did not exist at the time, were not even imagined. The best they managed at the time were cannons that blew up and flintlocks that exploded in the face of their wielders.

A balance must be made between that of allowing citizens to own weapons and protecting the citizenry from mass annihilation, and that's called gun control.
 
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DeletedUser11019

i agree...it was written in a diffirent time.
people can come up with all kinds of reasons for and against.
and yes ..having a gun ,,is more dangerous to yourself that to others...(people are odd)
mexico is the american dumping ground........eg i went there and saw a church that the american had provided for the native indians...(cardboard box roach infested ) nice charity huh?

but there is nothing we can do about it...the comertial value outwieghs the reason.
..films have been made,,tv programs, ect.

after the arms industy was privatized,, people forget a few things.....the arms industy manufactures on order FOR the millitary....the millitary still has control..not the other way round.......eg as staff pushing around the boss.

but the bigger issue is the cold war...during we could develop a hundred+ air crafts every day...bombers ..(stealths) and other.
but we dont have that kinda cash anymore.....

so what we left with is...rusry old weapons...40 year old plains still in service and hardly any new development..

even the eurofighter was a flop...billions whent into production do design it....and not one europian country owns one.

an f16 cost the usa 1 billion from design to finnish, ...then every unit costs +-25 million afterwards......and retail at about 45 million(dont ask me how i know that)
thats not so much cash...when you think about it....and countries buy dozens at a time(in case of africa,,they have planes but no pilots)

we are talking about millions apon billions ,,,do you think anyone will turn that kind of cash away??

try this...put a gun in your hand..and ask your self..."how does it feel"
 
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DeletedUser

Or the would-be hero would get himself, and/or others killed in the effort to help due to his lack of training.

How about another example a regular Joe is carrying his 9mm.
He gets into a heated argument, looses his temper, and shoots dead the other Joe,.
Now what would have been naught but a fist-fight, wich can be bad enough in itself, is a murder.

Don't know how many cases there are like that one, but massacres can be seen as a similar extension of the heated reation, and the availability of guns.


Guns themselves are nothing more than clubs. Ammunition is what enables them to kill immediately.

I don't see the reasoning in attacking firearms when Knives, hatchets, wrenches, baseballbats, pipes, and other sharp and Dense objects are just as deadly, especially at close range. You do not understand firearms, take some time to learn their workings and how they are used and how they are supposed to be used. People aren't as dumb as you would think.
 

DeletedUser

Guns themselves are nothing more than clubs. Ammunition is what enables them to kill immediately.

I don't see the reasoning in attacking firearms when Knives, hatchets, wrenches, baseballbats, pipes, and other sharp and Dense objects are just as deadly, especially at close range. You do not understand firearms, take some time to learn their workings and how they are used and how they are supposed to be used. People aren't as dumb as you would think.

How the heck would your would-be hero save anyone if there wasn't ammunition readibly available? Didn't think so.

Your bringing dense objects into the mix is a moot point

I guess my time as a soldier thought me nothing at all about the workings of guns and assualt rifles :rolleyes:

Lastly; I didn't state people were too damn stupid to properly use guns, in general, and that is exactly the problem. Doesn't take a genius to fire a rifle.
 

DeletedUser11019

last guy i know said something like that..lost it..pulled the pin from a granade..threw it under a truck full of tank fuel and (his own platoon)..blew the hell outa himself and recieved 100% burns to his body..
lived for a day...then died...and that was a sarge......
how about the other iccident i saw...guy trained his own son so hard he died on basics.(he didnt want to enforce favoritism)
or the town in africa just attacked 2 days befor,, the troops arived and had to pull bodies outa the river..more parts and bloated swollen (from only two days dun) skin would peal of the arms......the pile was then stacked infront of the church.(nice huh)
or the bload soaked leaves ,,you cant even see whats man or jungle,,its just a twisted mess.(you telling me thats right?)

those are peole who ARE trained to use weapons.and legal age to do so.

so....even if we paratropper , comando or otherwise,,training doesnt stop you from making human error..
the laws are ment to be guidlines to provent sutch errors.....

but then again...not even americans use american weapons.
the law is so full of holes..that you could STAB someone to death and call the amendments.

its not the laws...its the fact you can get away with bloody murder.......
 
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DeletedUser

How the heck would your would-be hero save anyone if there wasn't ammunition readibly available? Didn't think so.
If ammunition isn't readibly avalable then our would be hero would carry a knife, the reason that many innocent civilians carry guns is self defense, if no ammo is avalable, use a knife or other object, and another point, people DO collect guns you know; many Just for the looks, historical significance or said preformance. But many collect guns simply because they are fun to shoot with on the target range. Guns can be recreational items. Again, IQ of 180 not required to know that.

Your bringing dense objects into the mix is a moot point
Ballbats, Pipes, Sledgehammers, all dangerous.

I guess my time as a soldier thought me nothing at all about the workings of guns and assualt rifles :rolleyes:
Well you obviously didn't learn that shooting at non-living targets on boards can be fun.:rolleyes:

Lastly; I didn't state people were too damn stupid to properly use guns, in general, and that is exactly the problem. Doesn't take a genius to fire a rifle.
Correct

responses Green
 

DeletedUser

Shooting someone is far different from knifing them or taking a hatchet or baseball bat to them. While you can stand away from your victim, thereby distancing yourself from the act, to beat to death or stab someone you have to get up close and personal. It's an entirely different mindset.

Plus it is hard to stab someone when they are running away or locked behind a door. Much easier to shoot them or shoot the lock/knob off the door.

Edit: Also, I'm sure there have been far more accidental shootings than accidental stabbings or baseball bat beatings.
 
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DeletedUser

Excuse me David, but your argument seems to cling to the idea guns are toys. They are not, nor should they be used or treated as toys. That many people do use them as toys doesn't justify a lack of gun control. In fact, precisely the opposite.

Look, guns are not toys and they are far less safe than a bat, pipe, or sledgehammer. An assault rifle is simply not comparable to a baseball bat. An explosive is not comparable to a pipe. A machine gun is not comparable to a sledgehammer. Look, a pistol is not comparable to any melee weapon. These are not logical comparisons, they are not reasonable comparisons, they are not intelligent comparisons. You seem to think that if we deny these guns their ammo, effectively turning them into melee weapons, this somehow justifies not having any controls on gun ownership. Well jeeze, if you deny the ammo, you're imposing CONTROLS, now aren't you?!?

And I already addressed the issue of self-defense, in just the last post I made here. Can't you even bother to read my posts?
 

DeletedUser

responses Green

Quit answering like that, it's just a cheap tactic to avoid being quoted on your failing logic.

Melee weapons is irrelevant to the argument of gun control, but you seem to say that if one can not carry a loaded gun, one SHOULD be responsible and carry a knife? If you can not see the gargantuan fail in logic here, then there truly is no hope for you.

Well you obviously didn't learn that shooting at non-living targets on boards can be fun.
First you argue carrying guns for protection, and now they are to be considered toys?
Wich one is it chummy?

(...)
And I already addressed the issue of self-defense, in just the last post I made here. Can't you even bother to read my posts?

Good post there, and to respond to your rhetorical question; I guess he skips them in order to wield his great shield of ignorance all the better.
 

DeletedUser

I look at gun control laws the same way I do locks on doors. Locks won't stop a criminal intent on entering, but they will help to keep honest people honest. Gun control may not stop hardened criminals, or people intent on killing someone, but they will help stop accidental shootings or shots fired in anger and regretted later.
 
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