Creation vs Evolution Deathmatch

DeletedUser

Lol. You are a silly fundie. The bible the bible. Blah. Yeah, it was written 2000 years ago. It must be true! We know how enlightened everyone was back then. Coming right out of believe in a god and goddess for everything to all of a sudden your god makes its presence known. That would be called a religious coup.

http://www.jcvi.org/
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/03/0308_060308_evolution.html
http://www.evolutionnews.org/2007/10/for_decades_darwinists_have_be.html

Now look here fundie, if you don't want to answer questions or even think about looking for answers other than in your precious bible then don't bother coming in here. I just gave you some sites where you can start your own education.

A scientific theory is not a theory as you believe. Gravity is a theory yet we know it works.

1. If scientific theories are the most important ideas in science, and scientists are confident in their validity, why are they still referred to as just theories?

Scientific theories are arrived at through inductive reasoning rather than deductive reasoning so that within the strict framework of logic these ideas must be referred to as theories. This would seem simple enough, yet there is confusion about the meaning of this word since most of the public and even astrophysicists often use the word theory when they should be using the word hypothesis.

2. What determines if a scientific idea / model is a hypothesis or a theory?

The analogy of solving a board puzzle is helpful in clarifying the distinction between theory and hypothesis. There may be several puzzle pieces that could be possible candidates to fill an open space in the puzzle. These puzzle pieces would be considered possible hypotheses. On trying out each of the puzzle pieces one of the pieces may appear to fit one of the sides of the puzzle. At this point it may be tempting to upgrade the status of that puzzle piece from being a good hypothesis to being a theory, but actually that puzzle piece is still only a hypothesis. Caution is needed, because as more evidence comes in, or in the case of the board puzzle as more pieces fit around it, occasionally a piece that we thought fit on one side will not match up on another side and so our hypothesis must be rejected. It is only when our piece proves itself by fitting on at least two or three sides that we can be confident that our piece fits the puzzle. In the same way, only when there are multiple distinct logical arguments based on factual evidence can we upgrade our hypothesis to the status of being called a theory.
Finally, again similar to our board puzzle piece, when the correct theory fits into our base of knowledge it does much more than just seem to fit with the surrounding evidence. Whereas a hypothesis just seems to fit some of the facts, a theory allows us to see the big picture so as to make sense of all of the evidence that surrounds it. Theories are the most important ideas in science because they allow us to see the significance of what was before just random information.

Now quit asking stupid questions when you don't even know what you are talking about in the first place. You don't know the definition of scientific theory. You don't know the difference between evolution and the big bang theory. You don't know about all the scientific breakthroughs in the last 200 years, let alone last 5 years. You don't know anything other than your bible is the know all and end all.

I know what being a christian is about so don't think I'm ignorant of that. I've been to church, I've sung the songs, I've read the book several times, I've done the entire dance. My boyfriend was a priest that work at the Vatican, I've got a friend that is a minister, my entire family other than myself goes to church and has faith. The difference between you and I is that you haven't bothered to get your head out of a bible long enough to explore the scientific side to things. You don't want to debate, you want to shove your faith down everyones throats. I wouldn't mind it so much if you weren't so blind to the world around you.
 

DeletedUser

My question still stands how come some turned to humans and some turned to apes.

The 1800s are when darwin developed his theory.
 

nashy19

Nashy (as himself)
You talk like you know everything and you dont even have a book to go buy most of you theories were formed in the early 1800s. The bible i believe was written over 2000 years ago. So it sounds to me like you just believe anything you are told. The bible states facts and the only thing i've heard from you was theory this or theory that.

Just so you know there is alot more to being a christian that just believing. I not going to talk to you about that though you need to go research it first.

Lets make this simple

1. There are older texts than the bible
2. Check the bible for facts, don't even try the types of cures it suggests
3. Understand what a theory is, and realize that they are more significant that the few facts we as humans possess.

Just for fun, would you like to tell me the story of the base of your religion using the gospels (your fact books). The resurrection story.

You can not argue about something if you don't know what it is, theories are peer reviewed not vague personal guesses like you compare them to. So like I said, it wont take you 30mins to get the basics of both the big bang and evolution, surely is more dignified for you to do it yourself.

After that you should have an idea of what your talking about and you can come back with educated questions. This is the same as in the question forum, search for yourself and then ask (unless you are asking about personal opinions, which you aren't)
 
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DeletedUser

If you would click on one of the links I have supplied it would help explain some of that to you. If you think that someone came up with a theory in the 1800s and then nobody bothered to test the theory over and over again you are mistaken.

DNA fits very nicely into evolution. Amazing how Darwin grasped the concept of DNA and how something like DNA would have to exist for evolution to work hundreds of years before DNA was discovered. Everything that has come along since Darwin published has only provided further proof that evolution is correct.

Your bible has had 2000 years to come up with testable theories. Care to share with us some of the advances regarding those?
 

DeletedUser

Many creation myths were written thousands of years ago. Age is no indicator of veracity. Aristotle wrote of spontaneous generation of maggots over 2300 years ago, that doesn't make it true.
 

nashy19

Nashy (as himself)
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DeletedUser

My question still stands how come some turned to humans and some turned to apes.

The 1800s are when darwin developed his theory.
1800s are when people started realizing "hmm.... ya know... all this evidence suggests evolution". Those observations were accurate, but we have come a long way since then as well. Things like archeology and genetics (among many other sciences) all confirm the exact same thing. Note: this is not "we found some things that happen to support evolution", but in fact "we have found irrefutable things which support evolution, and no evidence whatsoever to refute it".

OK so back to your question: why do species diverge? There are numerous reasons, including migration, social pressures, etc. Take Darwin's finches, for example, on the Galapagos islands. Some birds figured out how to eat nuts/seeds, some went for bugs. Now the seed-eating birds had different beak sizes, much like everyone has different heights/weights. However, those with the largest strongest beaks had an advantage, and passed on their large/strong beak genes to their offspring. The end result: divergence.

Darwin%27s_finches.jpeg
 

DeletedUser

Do you know what causes evolution, how it happens or anything at all about the mechanism?

Clarify what you do and don't know, instead of trying to pick holes ask the genuine questions you have and we'll help you. If you want to pick holes do it after you clear up those questions.

I know and have read most of the two theories you guys are talking about and i don't claim to know everything about them. I will ask you the same question you asked me do you know what causes evolution? What i've read shows that scientist can't figure it out. How about intelligent design also know as GOD.

Alright guys i dont wanna argue and fuss back and forth with you obviously you three together know more than me about evolution i mean you are evolutionist. I just wanted to chime in with my beliefs. I would appreciate it if you didn't take my words out of context though. When I said GOD wouldn't make you do anything i meant that he wouldn't make you believe in him or his son Jesus who came to earth to die for our sins. I wasn't talking about being lazy and not caring about science. I just want to let you guys know if ever want to know more about Jesus and getting saved feel free to ask away. I don't have all the answers but i will do my best to find them for you. Thanks again for reading.
 

DeletedUser

What causes evolution is changes in DNA. If a specific trait of a species proves to be beneficial then it tends to get passed onto the next generation. Genes make minute changes that over a long period of time show up as evolution. Whether it be a stronger beak for breaking apart nuts (thereby benefiting the bird with an easily obtainable food supply and promoting the birds survival) or a more pleasing plume on a bird (thereby ensuring the bird to be more attractive to its mate so it can carry on its DNA through mating) or sharper teeth to cut into meat or longer legs to run faster or a longer neck to reach leaves at the tops of the tallest trees. All of those things are evolution and they take time. It is a slow process. What causes it is mutations in genes in DNA. We know for a fact that genes mutate not only by external forces such as radioactivity, but through natural processes as well. Viruses mutate into new viruses all the time. They have evolved. Look at the swine flu going around. It has evolved from something else. To say evolution is unprovable is to ignore everyday life around you.
 

DeletedUser

What i've read shows that scientist can't figure it out.
That's because what you've read comes from creationists telling you science hasn't figured it out.

Science knows how evolution works. Please stop claiming you've read up and understand the point of evolution while continuing to make these completely unfounded and otherwise false claims.

Just as a point of curiosity: how do you believe bacteria become resistant to antibiotics? Answering this question will give me a pretty good view of your knowledge and reasoning.
 

DeletedUser

Poor Darwinists. In their souls, they know it's true. We are all children of God. However, for some reason or another, they hate him. They want justification for their selfish, miserable life to continue. I will pray for them though. Even heathens deserve another chance!
 

DeletedUser

Poor Darwinists. In their souls, they know it's true. We are all children of God. However, for some reason or another, they hate him. They want justification for their selfish, miserable life to continue. I will pray for them though. Even heathens deserve another chance!

What a delusional and childish way to comfort your own insecurities. It's not that there's a possibility that your sky-fairy doesn't exist - no - it's that we just hate god.

We cannot hate something we don't believe in, you coward.
 

DeletedUser

What a delusional and childish way to comfort your own insecurities. It's not that there's a possibility that your sky-fairy doesn't exist - no - it's that we just hate god.

We cannot hate something we don't believe in, you coward.

Now here is an example of an angry atheist - when confronted with their faults and morally lacking way of life, they become angry, and attack. Yet deep inside, like all of us, they realize, there is something out there, bigger than us, and that is something has made us in his image!

Fear not my son, I will pray for you, and hopefully, one day, you will realize your mistake and repent before it is too late.
 

DeletedUser

Morality does not require religion. The concept that belief in evolution is inherently amoral is just foolish.
 

DeletedUser

Morality does not require religion. The concept that belief in evolution is inherently amoral is just foolish.

Dear Elmyr, the world's biggest mass murderers all happened to be atheistic! A coincidence? I think not!

An atheist has no moral compass, no intrinsic values, while the bible provides us perfect guide lines!
 

DeletedUser

Now here is an example of an angry atheist - when confronted with their faults and morally lacking way of life, they become angry, and attack. Yet deep inside, like all of us, they realize, there is something out there, bigger than us, and that is something has made us in his image!

Fear not my son, I will pray for you, and hopefully, one day, you will realize your mistake and repent before it is too late.

Now here is an example of a delusional self-righteous fundamentalist sheep - when confronted on their own mislogic and lack of intelligence, they become coy, and revert to unsubstantiated claims. Yet deep inside, unlike most of us, they believe there is a sky fairy out there, who controls the world and shapes its every movement, something that has made us in his image (imperfection?).

Fear not my child, I will waste my time talking to my pillow for you, and hopefully, one day, you will realize how close-minded and illogical you are and save face before society shuns you completely.

Dear Elmyr, the world's biggest mass murderers all happened to be atheistic! A coincidence? I think not!

An atheist has no moral compass, no intrinsic values, while the bible provides us perfect guide lines!

Dear Toko, read a book that isn't creationist propaganda. Have you ever heard of the crusades? How about the Salem witch trails?

An atheist lives by his own standards and morals. Notice how the bible makes no mention against rape? That's not one of the deadly sins? Is rape not a sin? Does that no fall into your moral compass? It's against mine, and I'm an atheist.
 
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DeletedUser

An atheist lives by his own standards and morals.

Which is exactly why the world's most evil people happened to be atheist! Hitler/Stalin ring any bells?

Atheists are really like small children. They want to be able to do whatever they want, be able to say "well, these are my own standards, therefor I can marry my cousin/gay marriege/abortion". You see what a slippery slope this is?
 

DeletedUser

Which is exactly why the world's most evil people happened to be atheist! Hitler/Stalin ring any bells?

Atheists are really like small children. They want to be able to do whatever they want, be able to say "well, these are my own standards, therefor I can marry my cousin/gay marriege/abortion". You see what a slippery slope this is?

"An association fallacy is an inductive formal fallacy of the type hasty generalization or red herring which asserts that qualities of one thing are inherently qualities of another, merely by an irrelevant association. The two types are sometimes referred to as guilt by association and honor by association. Association fallacies are a special case of red herring, and can be based on an appeal to emotion."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_fallacy
 

DeletedUser

Which is exactly why the world's most evil people happened to be atheist! Hitler/Stalin ring any bells?

Have you ever even read Mein Kampf, you moron? Christ you're dense.

Atheists are really like small children. They want to be able to do whatever they want, be able to say "well, these are my own standards, therefor I can marry my cousin/gay marriege/abortion". You see what a slippery slope this is?

What makes it okay for you to impose your faulty bible thumping morals on the rest of the world? What's wrong with a man marrying another man? What's wrong with abortion? You'd rather a child be brought into the world without means to take care of it? You'd rather bring a child into a potentially dangerous and non-accomodating home? There are problems with marrying your blood relatives, but not for the same nonsensical reason you believe, it really has nothing to do with morals.

Answer me this, since you clearly ignored it and can't read in the first place: Why does the bible not make any mention against rape or slavery?
 

DeletedUser

Have you ever even read Mein Kampf, you moron? Christ you're dense.

Please do not speak the lord's name in vain. Also, why would I want to read something like Mein Kampf? surely only someone with no morals would be willing to even venture near such a book!


Answer me this, since you clearly ignored it and can't read in the first place: Why does the bible not make any mention against rape or slavery?

Of course it does - in an implied way. Only a moron(or atheist) will not understand the underlying message behind the bible - that is, be kind to one another. You will find dire punishments for anyone committing rape in the old times, as stated by the bible.

God bless.
 
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