Unfair character Bonuses!

[DeletedUser]

Stop crying already.
Every class has its pros and cons.

I am not going to point out every flaw in your whine, because it will take more time to explain what's what, than I am willing to spend.

 

[DeletedUser]

this struggle sounds like dueling "1 to many" for me

 

[DeletedUser]

i really get excited when i win 20-30$ in a duel... maybe in older stages of the game it could be good since players used to carry lots of cashes around, but in newer worlds i really wish to win only 30-40 in a duel!

Well that takes care of your complaint about the money doesn't it.

so why u don talk about 100% HP and tactic bonuses of soldiers? or higher weapon uses? let's assume both have premium:

a soldier with lvl X and dueling lvl Y can challenge any dueler with X+6 lvl (same lvl weapons) and Y+n dueling level without being afraid, and with high possibility of winning, can gain a high XP, and multiple this extra Xp in average 3 duels per day and then *7, i bet it will be higher than u calculated for 4 more motivation!

I didn't address it because John already did. Plus there is no point. This is an entirely useless thread only put on the board so you can whine and complain about a character class you chose. But I shall address it since you seem to insist I do.

A soldier with premium can use a weapon 6 levels above them. You state they can then challenge a dueler who is has the same gun as they do without being afraid. You are forgetting that dueler has 6 levels on the soldier. That is 6 attribute points and 18 skill points the dueler can have in dueling skills the soldier does not. That puts the dueler at the advantage. Plus the dueler is probably able to equip better gear because of his rank.

do not forget solders have high defence and HP!

A soldiers tactics does not come into play when a soldier challenges someone. Only when they are being challenged. A soldiers tactics, even with premium, are only as good as the points put in. So yes, a soldier with premium and 10 points in tactics essentially has 20 in tactics, but only when challenged. Soldiers only have a high defense if they spec for one. They just have to spec 1/2 as much in tactics (if they have premium) than others do.

HP doesn't really matter that much to be honest. It's hard to KO someone. Usually takes more than one person. I'm sure you have plenty of HP even without the bonus.

and do not forget most challengers hit workers, think it about dueling against a worker for both of them!

No relevance whatsoever.

 

[DeletedUser]

HP doesn't really matter that much to be honest. It's hard to KO someone. Usually takes more than one person. I'm sure you have plenty of HP even without the bonus.

then im sure ur not a dueler! in higher lvls u may receive +450 damage in a duel! so u have to sleep 8hrs after one or 2 duels. (another disadvantage of more motivation), but if u have more HP u can do more duels!

No relevance whatsoever.

i knew u might talk about +6 attr and +18 skills, that's why i think this is relevant, workers do not take this point to strenghen their dueling skills

 

[DeletedUser]

I'm not a dueler. If you take 450 damage in a duel then you need to pump up your defensive skills or you sir are no dueler either. I've never come close to receiving 450 damage in a duel, even when I've been the challenger of a higher ranked player. Remember now, when challenging my tactics have nothing to do with it.

Your complaint was between the Dueler and Soldier classes. Worker classes have no relevance to your original whine.

So basically after everything you've whined about, and every flaw in your whines that has been posted the best you can come up with is you get hit for 450 damage in duels and workers are relevant to your original complaint.

Again I say this thread is pointless.

 

[DeletedUser9063]

If you think it's so unfair, than you should have done your research first and chose after.

 

[DeletedUser]

Denisero, as i see in ur signature,u are a lvl 33 soldier with 58 D-lvl.

I've never come close to receiving 450 damage in a due

this is a sample.. between 2 high lvl duelers:

now u see what im talking about!

Worker classes have no relevance to your original whine.

i have no more explanations than my last line in the previous post.



and u dear friend:

If you think it's so unfair, than you should have done your research first and chose after.

please read all the posts if u want to post! i have answered this question already!

 

[DeletedUser]

I know what you are talking about. Pump up your defensive skills. You won't have that. Even so, to make your case true if a soldier challenges a high level dueler (where the soldiers tactics do not come into play) then a soldier should see that sort of damage as well. Maybe its just me. I don't know. I have never received over 400 damage in a duel even when I'm the challenger. Its all in how you spec.

 

[DeletedUser]

lets' forget tactics.
i choose soldier, distribute my skill points and attributes identical to a dueler character... then my +6 weapon and more HP allows me to kill every Dueler that is in my own lvl. isn't it?

[i added this to the first post of the topic]


and

Stop crying already.

why are u acting like kids? we are not opponents, we are just talking about the game :|

 

[DeletedUser]

No it doesn't. It gives you a better chance if a dueler challenges you and you haven't neglected putting points into your tactics. If you challenge a dueler it gives you no advantage whatsoever unless you have a better gun. In addition to the better gun you also need to have better appearance than they have tactics, better aim than they have dodge, and better defensive skills than they have offensive skills. A better gun in an otherwise same character level match is not guarantee of a win. Its your specs that sway the fight.

Edit - sorry I missed some of what you said.

If you have identical build then yes the gun matters. But then the dueling stance comes into play as well. Also, the same is true as I said above about aim v dodge, etc. Plus you said earlier (I think page one) that HP didn't really matter. So leave HP out of it.

Now we've thrown out tactics and HP. That leaves you with the gun which I just explained could or could not be the determining factor.

 

[DeletedUser]

oooooooooooooof! let me say it another way:

we have a soldier and a dueler both at lvl 42, all skill points are the same in both characters, ALL OF THEM, (same dodging, aiming, toughness, reflex, tactics, health points, shooting or vigor, and appearance) , both are equiped with same gears...



now:
soldier has a lvl 48 weapon but dueler a lvl 42 weapon\
soldier has more HP in his redbar!



who wins?
even if the soldier is the challenger.... he wins of course

 

[DeletedUser]

Tuco, so what if they both have 20 in aim and 30 in dodge. That just means they will both miss alot. But if you are aiming at the wrong place you are going to miss anyways. So dueling stance plays a huge part in that scenario. Again, does not guarantee a win.

Again, your entire argument has now been boiled down to the gun. Gun doesn't guarantee a win. I've gone up against bigger guns and won. It all relies on how you spec!!

You get 10% more money than I do in every duel you win where they carry cash. That has nothing to do with specs. You get to duel more often than I do and that has nothing to do with specs. I think you can give soldiers a bit of a break on the gun as its the only thing they don't have to spec for to truly take advantage of.

 

[DeletedUser]

anyway, in an identical situation (even dueling stance) soldier wins with no doubt! and is also 50% far from being passed out! (so can continue dueling for next 48 hours, but dueler gains nothing of his advantages for 48 hrs if is passed out)

still thinks it's fair?

i think the main purpose of soldier character is protecting! but it is now kinda abused to being a high lvl dueler

 

[DeletedUser]

Yes its fair. Why is it fair? Because its an advantage the soldier has. Everyone got to see all the advantages every class has and in that situation the soldier always wins. You said HP doesn't matter. Don't bring it up again. It takes more than 1 duel to KO another player if they start at full health.

 

[DeletedUser]

HP doesn't really matter that much to be honest.

i said!!!!?

 

[DeletedUser]

oh sorry! i got it wrong cuz i've never been a soldier, i changed it hope this is correct now!
anyway other two bonuses are more important!

Well you said the other 2 bonuses are more important. Same thing.

 

[DeletedUser]

and i didn't say HP is not important!

 

[DeletedUser]

Character class: Soldier

Advantages:

For each skill point given to the skill health points you receive an additional 5[10] health points for your character. I see no need to change this.

The level needed to use a weapon is lowered by 3[6] levels. This is just ridiculous. 6 levels is huge. Imagine how much a difference this makes when in the later stages it can take a full week to go up a level. I think it should be changed to 2[4], would fit in much better with the weapon integers and needs nerfed imho. Even 1[2] I wouldn't argue vs.

In duels you receive a bonus of 50%[100%] to your tactic skill. You may never even get to use this. I could count on one hand the amount of times I've been challenged on W3, this is only benefitted by the actions of others, the best way you can exploit it is by baiting, and thats increasingly difficult.


Character class: Dueler

Advantages:

The speed on the map is increased by 10%[20%]. This is very, very, underappreciated. You are able to beat a soldier back to his home town to counter him. You are able to reach more towns each day. This is tacked on after factors such as horse speed, and horseback riding have been added, so this 10/20% can cut your travel time in one day down by literally hours.

The motivation for dueling raises faster. It is increased 20%[40%] faster. This means you can duel for exp more. Anyone doubting how huge an advantage this is, should spec another class for fighting, and realise how relatively slow it is for their motivation to increase back to 100%.

You receive 10% [20%] more money in a duel. I think this is just dull and doesn't really do much. I won't go into why as its a massive debate with many affecting indirect factors that change over time. I think this bonus should be scrapped for a relatively small bonus to Appearance, or Aim and Dodge. Small because you'd take advantage of it 5x or more a day, whereas Soldier has to rely on others hitting him to gain tactics bonus, which in my exp happens maybe once or twice a month. I just think if you pick the offensive class you should get some kind of offensive bonus.

But as I mentioned, this may all be rebalanced in sub-classes anyway.


And maybe if the two of you stopped nitpicking eachother then you could have a mature debate and perhaps come up with some kind of plan for rebalancing. Instead of bickering spam.

 

[DeletedUser]

Lets not argue over semantics. We can put HP back on the table. Here is how it compares for lvl 42 characters:

No additional skill points put into health
Dueler = 520
Soldier = 525 (if no skill points added then premium doesn't matter)

10 additional skill points put into health:
Dueler = 570
Soldier no premium = 670
Soldier with premium = 720

Neither one of us are getting knocked out in one duel if we go in with full health. As you can see it is not a 50% advantage over you. Half of 570 is 285. Soldiers with premium would have 150 more hp than you.

(If my math is wrong forgive me. Someone can correct it)

 

[DeletedUser]

I don't see why the specifics of the maths even matters. Your point is incredibly important.

The bonuses are what you make of them. If you don't feel you're not making the most of them then either think outside of the box or choose a different character class. tbh I don't think data alone is enough to make your mind up. You have to fully personally experience each class to take advantage of its full virtues.

Denisero really is just trying to point out the inconsistencies of your argument, Tuco. Its one thing raising a valid issue, you have to base your argument on true statements and well researched data to make it be heard though.

If anything is imbalanced it will eventually be adressed, but if the community presents factual evidence and healthy unbiased suggestions, improvements will be implemented in-game much faster. Thats all we really want, right?