West 2.0 discussion

[DeletedUser32882]

I didn't said anything until now cuz in a way i fell glad how the rest of the players fell.This is the same way duelers felt when Inno changed the dueling sistem....and all the crafters,ff's out there didn't said anything....o yea...probably laugh at us and making jokes.Well guys now i'm really glad that Inno hurt us all good.
But it had to be u Hellstromm to come along and tell us taht we have a destructive initiative,that our trolling it's for nothing??Us duelers already know that what ever we are going to say or do it's for nothing....lets see if Inno in his stupidity now ,whit this ''incredible'' update will back down when they hurt all the players changing the game compeltly.And pls don't tell us that is the same game...it's not and u know it.This is not the game that we love,the game that made us fell good and enjoy playing.This si Inno stupidity at there best.
And OMG......u have the nerve to tell us to go to beta and help Inno make the game better,while all the players from beta wrote zounds of msgs on the forum telling them all about the bugs the game has and how wrong the new update is???And what did Inno did about this???
They bringed the update over to .net to shut everyones mouths for good whit all the bugs and all the issues that everyones from beta reported.
So Hellstromm pls be quiet.

 

[DeletedUser16008]

I have noticed the majority of issues has been "getting used to" the game having changed. A lot of players, including myself, were used to how the game was. We would mumble, grumble, complain about how it was, but we knew it and were confident in our understanding of where things were and how things worked.

The game is different now. It's the same game at the core. Most of the mechanics are the same, but the presentation is different and many of the functions have changed, so we're having to relearn the game. That's disheartening for a lot of players who felt they were experts. But, geez, it's a game and it's in many ways better than it was before. I have played around in the game and gotten used to many of the changes and, quite frankly, I like it more than the previous version. Sure, it has a higher learning curve than the previous game, but there are more tutorials too. It's a little more complicated, a little more variety, but I quite like the game being "more" than it was.

I haven't been participating in this and other trolling threads primarily because I have been looking at what can be done to "improve" upon what has already been done. Let's face it, the game isn't going to be reverted back to West 1.0, so the only way is forward. Jump in Beta and point out what needs to be fixed or improved upon... that's how you get the game to where you want it.

But seriously, what's the point of all this trolling? Encouraging a mass-exodus? Does that make you feel important? Is this whole scene honestly more important than the floods, hurricanes, wars, and starvation that are devastating this world? No, of course not... perspective.

And in perspective, this is a game, so how about we move to being productive instead of destructive, to improve upon our form of entertainment? I would like to see more of you in Beta, posing your "recommendations" and pointing out the bugs so the developers can fix them.

http://forum.beta.the-west.net/
http://beta.the-west.net/

Thanks,
Hellstromm

If it walks like a duck, looks like a duck and quacks like a duck it probably is.

What you call trolling is players highlighting flaws, mistakes and imo and many others opinion about a ruined game... Yup its different alright.

People did post a lot in beta they got the posts deleted all criticism even constructive was totally ignored

Far from encouraging anything it is all on the head of the dept who instigated this update and "facelift" figures speak for themselves.

HS players have not been and are not listened to in the slightest bud, if they were V2 wouldn't be anywhere near as full of holes,senseless or frustrating and a failure as it is, people are leaving because its a bad direction and update, everything happening is exactly what I and many others tried to warn about prior to the update. What you are missing is what was missed by innos PR. Vets are the heart of the game noobs are the lifeblood, V2 just gave it a possible fatal heart attack IMO and it wont be the fault of any player.

Don't you get it ? it doesn't matter one jot what players do to try and help constructively they are not listened to, proof positive during V2 beta testing and all the feedback given.

Bad idea HS to try and suggest people are just trolling and havnt tried to help lol. Tell you what rather than just making statements try playing it on V2 from the ground up and tell me what you think cos i know you dont play atm. W1 look me up theres a place waiting in town for you, id love you to experience it now in all its wonderful glory bugs n all..

 

[DeletedUser14006]

I would like to see more of you in Beta, posing your "recommendations" and pointing out the bugs so the developers can fix them.

Reset BETA to get rid of all the noobs that see it as their main world and sends out invites to folk on the regular worlds via the telegram system and I will join up tomorrow, until then I will leave Russia, Portugal and whatever other noobish towns to carry on with their own little war instead of contributing to the beta forum

 

[Deleted User - 1278415]

However people still need to take heed of what Hellstromm has said. We have pages of complaining in this and other threads, but barely a full page of 2.0 related suggestions in Ideas & Brainfarts, with a number of the suggestions that have been posted there involving a roll back of the job system or other fundamental parts of 2.0 which has been stated a number of times by our CMs and the devs as out of the question. Maybe I'll do something about that and create my own thread in I&B with a realistic list of improvements for Version 2.0.

In I&B there are several ideas, yes I agree not a full page. But there are several ideas that have been out there for a few weeks that have gained respect and show promise. Why have we not seen any of these ideas go to vote yet? It feels pointless to post ideas out there and not have them taken with a grain of salt to be passed on to the devs.

Or worse that we have ideas that were passed on to the devs that seem like no brainers to implement i.e. "Quest ABC Order" that I submitted to be passed over to the devs, some 18 months ago.

 

[DeletedUser]

Reset BETA to get rid of all the noobs that see it as their main world and sends out invites to folk on the regular worlds via the telegram system and I will join up tomorrow, until then I will leave Russia, Portugal and whatever other noobish towns to carry on with their own little war instead of contributing to the beta forum

Amen. Beta hasn't been about testing for a long time, it's about cheap nuggets and personal achievements. Part of the problem is also the fact that only the first person reporting a bug gets that whopping reward of five nuggets, so a lot of people who were reporting bugs probably quit after having bug reports rejected time after time because they were already reported.

 

[DeletedUser16008]

Reset BETA to get rid of all the noobs that see it as their main world and sends out invites to folk on the regular worlds via the telegram system and I will join up tomorrow, until then I will leave Russia, Portugal and whatever other noobish towns to carry on with their own little war instead of contributing to the beta forum

They wont do that Del it makes them MONEY and monkeys that like an easy game play beta just to make themselves feel good.... place is full of people just treating it like an easy regular world... its not a true beta and hasnt been for 3 + years, its why i quit and wont go back and the idea about it being taken seriously as a beta testing ground is total rubbish and so is the notice taken of proper posts made trying to give feedback...

If you do play Beta im sorry but your not there to test just goof off and have fun............. pointless calling it Beta

imoBeta as a beta is a total joke and nothing more than just another revenue stream :razz:

 

[HelenBack]

I have noticed the majority of issues has been "getting used to" the game having changed. A lot of players, including myself, were used to how the game was. We would mumble, grumble, complain about how it was, but we knew it and were confident in our understanding of where things were and how things worked.

The game is different now. It's the same game at the core. Most of the mechanics are the same, but the presentation is different and many of the functions have changed, so we're having to relearn the game. That's disheartening for a lot of players who felt they were experts. But, geez, it's a game and it's in many ways better than it was before. I have played around in the game and gotten used to many of the changes and, quite frankly, I like it more than the previous version. Sure, it has a higher learning curve than the previous game, but there are more tutorials too. It's a little more complicated, a little more variety, but I quite like the game being "more" than it was.

I haven't been participating in this and other trolling threads primarily because I have been looking at what can be done to "improve" upon what has already been done. Let's face it, the game isn't going to be reverted back to West 1.0, so the only way is forward. Jump in Beta and point out what needs to be fixed or improved upon... that's how you get the game to where you want it.

But seriously, what's the point of all this trolling? Encouraging a mass-exodus? Does that make you feel important? Is this whole scene honestly more important than the floods, hurricanes, wars, and starvation that are devastating this world? No, of course not... perspective.

And in perspective, this is a game, so how about we move to being productive instead of destructive, to improve upon our form of entertainment? I would like to see more of you in Beta, posing your "recommendations" and pointing out the bugs so the developers can fix them.

http://forum.beta.the-west.net/
http://beta.the-west.net/

Thanks,
Hellstromm

I'm in both Betas HS... I've posted many suggestions as have many others... The suggestions were ignored or deleted and v2 was pushed out on an uninformed public. There were no IN GAME announcements leading up to the major v2 "update". Many people who just play the game were not even warned that the game they had been playing was about to be changed. And no... this is no longer the same game I signed up for.

Note: One thing they did listen to while v2 was in Beta... The Job Damage was reduced... People were dying after 4 - 10 minute jobs (I think that was 9k HP gone in 40 minutes?). So that is one thing I will agree they did listen to. Job Damage is still a lot higher than it was in v1.36... but it isn't killing peeps as often as it did when v2 was first implemented.

The job times are a HUGE change... If you need Cotton or any other low level job product, you HAVE TO queue hundreds of <2 minute jobs just to get a few of that item for crafts or fort building. So what happens to the people that can't just sit at their computer for hours at a time? They can't work those jobs... Sure there are jobs that are >1 hour... but do they NEED to do those jobs? Are those jobs needed to complete the quests they are trying to work on? With v1.36, people had a CHOICE in how long they could work ALL jobs... They could try to work a job for 5 minutes (10 minutes in w1) at a time to try and luck out in getting a drop... or queue a full hour (2 hours in w1) a couple of times and a sleep then head out for their RL stuff (work/school/life).

You're also saying that with all the crap going on in real life... Why make such a fuss over a game...? Well, the job times issue is HUGE because it forces us to make a decision on is this GAME worth spending any time on when I have my real life stuff that I NEED to deal with? Being able to queue a couple hours of Picking Tobacco would always yield 4 Tobacco per hour. There was the odd time when you only got 3. So you would know you could queue 2 hours of Picking Tobacco and come back to find you have 6-8 Tobacco. Same with Sugar. Now.. you have to work <2 minute jobs to zero mot and still not have the products you need.

Yes, the new job times may be better for some... and horrible for many... but the old job times had CHOICE... Therefore they would work for the majority no matter what their Real Life threw at them.

The fort requirements... I really don't know what Inno was thinking when they thought up those new numbers for the requirements... other than the visions of dollar signs dancing in their heads in the hopes that people would get frustrated with working all the stupid short timed jobs and just buy the products they need with Nuggets.

The issues with chat were brought up MANY times in Beta... But that is still not fixed. In fact they broke fort chat with their last "update"... now ranks are no longer showing in the chat. People have to look in the battle screen to see if they are ranked.

The dueling system changed as well... The XP is nutz... the Dueling Levels are all different... Some are insanely high. At level 120, I've found level 45 peeps that I can duel (no I didn't duel them unless they dueled me first). That should not be possible... even as a Zero Mot dueler. Ya, this is a Zero Mot dueler complaining that she can hit someone half her size... Not all Zero Mots WANT to duel people that much smaller than them. Some do Zero Mot dueling to have more dueling targets. Some do Zero Mot dueling to keep the higher level Zero Mots from dueling them.

I feel like I'm just banging my head against a brick wall here... Inno refuses to listen to the feedback they have been given while v2 was in Beta... the same issues are being brought up in all the .net worlds after v2 was forced on them here. I don't personally know about the other language servers, but apparently the same issues have been brought up on them too.

I don't mind change... so long as the change makes sense. V2 does not make sense.

As for all the "trolling"... as you call it HS... I think you should be glad that people are still "trolling"... It means they still care enough about the game to try and change it... to make it better... to keep this game alive. Others see those still fighting to make this game better and stay in the game to see what happens.

If we didn't say anything at all... Most would just leave in silence... perhaps that is better?
:tumble:

If you do play Beta im sorry but your not there to test just goof off and have fun............. pointless calling it Beta

That may be true of some of the peeps in Beta... But there are some there that are trying to test and give feedback... even if it is ignored.

 

[DeletedUser22493]

I have noticed the majority of issues has been "getting used to" the game having changed. A lot of players, including myself, were used to how the game was.
That's disheartening for a lot of players who felt they were experts.

I think you pretty much nailed it there..

Have you tried building a fort after the update? The insane amount of products required combined with the torturous product drop rates makes fort building hell. These are the two things I hate most about the new version.

I disagree. Building a fort used to be a one man thing. Now, it requires a lot of team effort. We have a large fort that is nearly finished now. Only missing 1 lvl to the Barracks and 2 on the HQ.
But rallying the team to work together to build it has been a fun experience, and when the fort is finished, it will be a monument to display what we managed to do as a team. Thus strengthening the town community.

1 man towns should not be entitled to a fully built fort. This game desperately needs more activities that bring people together. The gem of this game IS the in-game community, and its ability to work together. That is what makes people stay in the game.
If it wasn't for that, I know I wouldn't be here anymore. Imo, this game is what you make of it.

 

[DeletedUser]

I remember when people used to brag about having the first fully built fort on a world. That was about an impressive accomplishment as fully building a town. Now it really means something. Unless of course one benefactor just throws nuggets at the problem. It's definitely tempting, since products are so much cheaper now, even if you need so many of them that it outweighs the savings.

 

[WanderingStranger]

I disagree. Building a fort used to be a one man thing. Now, it requires a lot of team effort. We have a large fort that is nearly finished now. Only missing 1 lvl to the Barracks and 2 on the HQ.
But rallying the team to work together to build it has been a fun experience, and when the fort is finished, it will be a monument to display what we managed to do as a team. Thus strengthening the town community.

1 man towns should not be entitled to a fully built fort. This game desperately needs more activities that bring people together. The gem of this game IS the in-game community, and its ability to work together. That is what makes people stay in the game.
If it wasn't for that, I know I wouldn't be here anymore. Imo, this game is what you make of it.

Thats nice for a world where people have had characters who were 120 for a long time and dont care about exp. Try convincing 50 people in w16 to collect cotton when they have to spend the next 3 months leveling and if someone spent all of their time collecting fort items in that time they would be woefully underpowered.

Most town in 16 are not even bothering to build their forts. That means 4/5 attacks will win easily for a few months. A few days ago there were less than half of the forts even claimed because most people dont want to spend money on a fort that will be taken in a couple of days.

My town is one of the largest there. We dont have a "lets win this defense" attitude. We have a "We will just dig it and take it back in 2 days" attitude (not Might but Will). We just dont care because we cant afford to put any effort into more than 1 fort for the next several months.

 

[DeletedUser34464]

Hellstromm, "playing around" and playing are 2 different things. I play the game, and yes, getting used to the changes, but there are some things that I can see as game breakers that will eventually drive me from the game. I'ts supposed to be FUN!!! I shouldn't have to be grinding 8 hours in the hope of getting 1 item to drop, an item I need 4, 10 to move on.

And why are you putting this on us, the players? Devs can't even manage to be bothered to MAKE SURE THEY"RE USING ENGLISH ON THE ENGLISH SERVER!! It really doesn't seem that they care, you should be HAPPY that we still do.

Try this next time you're "playing around"- gather 4 ships bells or 10 spikes. Then come back and tell us how enjoyable that was.

 

[DeletedUser]

Have you tried building a fort after the update? The insane amount of products required combined with the torturous product drop rates makes fort building hell.

Yes, I have. I found this actually to be quite refreshing. As Rebow & Elmyr indicated, previously building up a fort was a joke, something that could be done in a few months by a single player. Now it's a real project, as it should be. Now, full-built forts will be rare and well-earned.

We tried that, it didn't work. I can understand that the devs were losing players and probably close to losing money on The West, which is why they had such determination to roll out this update as soon as possible without listening to people who said things that would slow them down. However, some of the things that were complained about would not have defeated the purpose of the 2.0 update if changed.

I agree with Innogames' intentions of changing the game, upgrading it from an older format to something more up to date. I also know that they were losing players precisely because the old was appealing to a select few players, but most browser gamers were running to games that looked newer.

The West, at its core, is a good game concept. It needed a face lift. Some who liked the old, wrinkly version are quite unhappy, but those who want those firm hips and hourglass figure are going to find this game appealing again. That's just the way it is, unfortunately.

It happens, but standing still and complaining about it with the other complainers doesn't make change, it makes stagnation and frustration, as you posed in this statement here:

"However people still need to take heed of what Hellstromm has said. We have pages of complaining in this and other threads, but barely a full page of 2.0 related suggestions in Ideas & Brainfarts, with a number of the suggestions that have been posted there involving a roll back of the job system or other fundamental parts of 2.0 which has been stated a number of times by our CMs and the devs as out of the question."​

As to your last sentence, I'm with you Futu. Let me know in skype what assist you may need.

The message behind your post seems to be, in essence, 'if you're serious about making the game better, either join Beta or shut up' and 'it's only a game, and there are people dying all over the world from tragedy upon tragedy, so you should be ashamed of yourselves for making such a big deal about a game'.

If that's what you got from it, okay...

What I'm saying is, there are ways and means to make change, and then there's venting for the sake of venting.

It's possible that some of us don't have the time to 'jump into beta' - honestly, I've been a beta tester before and from what I've seen of what people seem to think of beta, your actual testing base is woefully small.

I already explained the Beta issue in my earlier paragraphs. As to time, I watch people spend countless hours making detailed rants here in these forums. Time that could have been spent posting productive discourse. It's a choice, not an issue of time.

I have gotten the distinct impression over the past few years that most consider Beta to be no more than a free way to get the jump on others in finding out about changes, updates and especially new quests.

As previously indicated, Beta underwent changes. If you hold to previous impressions, you haven't bothered to keep up. There's the open Beta you see, and the ones you don't.

As for me, if I had the time I would join Beta, but I've been having less and less time to play in the regular worlds and there's no way I would have the time to spend in Beta to do what should be done.

And yet you had time to make a lengthy series of posts. Interesting.

And if you care to peel away the rough shell of the messages behind all these posts, you'll find that by and large we are pointing out specific things about the changes that we find distressing. the message is there - it merely wants someone who is willing to see it and understand it.

And you really think developers are going to sit here and read all these posts to get the "messages behind all these posts?" Why would they bother to listen to so much vitriol to pull out the undigested carrot?


That's all the time I have for, will attempt to respond to the other comments later.

 

[DeletedUser6752]

If that's what you got from it, okay...

Yes, that's pretty much what I got from it. I got more than that, but that seemed to be the underlying message - to "put our money where our mouths were", as it were.

What I'm saying is, there are ways and means to make change, and then there's venting for the sake of venting.

And here it is - your interpretation of just about everything said in this thread is that it's venting for the sake of venting. It's nice to be dismissed out of hand with such a trite generalization. Makes it easier to ignore anything of substance that might have been said.
But I forgot - if there was anything of substance to be said, we should join beta in order to say it because all this is just venting.

I already explained the Beta issue in my earlier paragraphs. As to time, I watch people spend countless hours making detailed rants here in these forums. Time that could have been spent posting productive discourse. It's a choice, not an issue of time.

As previously indicated, Beta underwent changes. If you hold to previous impressions, you haven't bothered to keep up. There's the open Beta you see, and the ones you don't.

And yet you had time to make a lengthy series of posts. Interesting.

Thank you so much for telling me how much free time I have on my hands, and how much time it took me to type that post. How much beta testing can I get done in 15 minutes? Because it took me less than that to type my post above. I'm not as slow or as stupid as you've assumed. Nor do I post in these forums on a regular basis. And I'm not sure what "lengthy series of posts" you're referring to.

If there's more than one beta, and all but one are 'the ones we don't see' - please don't be critical of those of us who aren't involved and aren't aware of that fact.

And you really think developers are going to sit here and read all these posts to get the "messages behind all these posts?" Why would they bother to listen to so much vitriol to pull out the undigested carrot?

I must correct myself for stating above that I'm not stupid - I had assumed that there were moderators that policed the forums and acted as a buffer between the user community and the developers. I never once assumed they would be reading this themselves. And there's not just vitriol - or even contumely, for that matter. there are many, many posts in this thread of substance and value - even if the more vicious or irate posts were discarded, there would still be plenty of reasonably stated viewpoints that could be combed for messages of value.

~

Yes, I'm quite aware of the fact that I am speaking to a closed door. But it galls me to see someone making rash, unfounded and foolish assumptions about something I've said and I felt compelled to address your 'accusations'.

And the sole purpose of my entire post (above) was to try and provide a bit of perspective in explaining the point of view of the player community - at least the part that uses these forums and feel the need to say something in this thread - like someone above already stated rather nicely, the reason we're coming here to the forums is because we don't want the game to go down the wrong path; we don't want to just give up, stop playing, and walk away from it; we've enjoyed the game for a long time, and want to keep enjoying it, and to the best of our individual abilities we are speaking out to try and have our opinions heard. It might not be the best method there is, but it's quicker than most and gives many the sense that they're making their feelings known, and for many that's all they can do (or wish to do).
So belittle it if you will, but most of what's been said in this thread is heartfelt and earnest. Make of that what you will.

I'm done now - I've used enough of my valuable time and my characters are all back in town, so it's time for me to log off.

 

[HelenBack]

Yes, I have. I found this actually to be quite refreshing. As Rebow & Elmyr indicated, previously building up a fort was a joke, something that could be done in a few months by a single player. Now it's a real project, as it should be. Now, full-built forts will be rare and well-earned.

Cool... You can build the forts and we'll steal them when they're completed.

I agree with Innogames' intentions of changing the game, upgrading it from an older format to something more up to date. I also know that they were losing players precisely because the old was appealing to a select few players, but most browser gamers were running to games that looked newer.

The West, at its core, is a good game concept. It needed a face lift. Some who liked the old, wrinkly version are quite unhappy, but those who want those firm hips and hourglass figure are going to find this game appealing again. That's just the way it is, unfortunately.

It needed a face lift... Yes... The new look is nice... But as for changing the core of the game... No it wasn't needed. Maybe a few tweaks, but changing the job system from a time-based to a number-based system changed the way the game is played. There is nothing you can say that will make me (or others) think otherwise. Also such a huge change was badly implemented... Too many people were blindsided by the "update". People logged off (or were kicked out) of the game... and logged back on to find a new game. They lost partially completed quests... They lost their towns... They lost their forums... They lost their forts. They could no longer queue an hour long job to gather 4 low level products... And when they complained were basically told to "get used to it". Some didn't bother to complain... they just left. Those that are still here "complaining" are doing so because they still care about this game... They want to see it succeed... and they can see it's sliding downhill.

Now, your other concerns are quite valid. It is sometimes hard to encourage change, particularly when the channels to communication are not reliable. That's a problem that was addressed at the Beta (a lot don't realize this, because it's backend). The beta was changed to multiple levels, a few Betas exist. There's the one where people make fools of themselves, and then there are the versions where "real testers," players geared to actually improving upon the game, are located. Those betas, the ones some of you may not have been invited to, are not open. They are invite only, but they exist and the means to come into those groups are to query about it "and" demonstrate active interest and intent in the open beta.

Yes, it's a filtering system... to keep them at bay, because let's face it, it doesn't help the development of the game, it hampers it. Now, as to proposals posed here or in the other forums for the live games, that's a staffing issue. If proposals presented here are not going through the voting process and are not being presented to the developers, address it with the community managers. I haven't been paying attention to the proposals process here, but I wouldn't doubt the problem is two-fold...

So we are asked to join the Beta... But we can't just join the Beta because the "real" Beta is by invitation only? So in the meantime, those in the "fake" open Betas are considered no matter what constructive feedback we give? So what's the point then? We aren't listened to there... We aren't listened to here. I've posted a lot of constructive feedback in Beta (as have others)... I even went as far as making a mock-up image as a suggestion for a better layout... So all the time that I've used in the "fake" open Beta has been a huge waste?

It happens, but standing still and complaining about it with the other complainers doesn't make change, it makes stagnation and frustration, as you posed in this statement here:

<snip>

What I'm saying is, there are ways and means to make change, and then there's venting for the sake of venting.

I already explained the Beta issue in my earlier paragraphs. As to time, I watch people spend countless hours making detailed rants here in these forums. Time that could have been spent posting productive discourse. It's a choice, not an issue of time.

Again... Those who are in the "fake" open Beta have given a lot of constructive feedback... They took the time to make detailed suggestions... It was ignored. But apparently we aren't good enough for the "real" Beta... We're all ... So no wonder we were ignored.

As previously indicated, Beta underwent changes. If you hold to previous impressions, you haven't bothered to keep up. There's the open Beta you see, and the ones you don't.

And you really think developers are going to sit here and read all these posts to get the "messages behind all these posts?" Why would they bother to listen to so much vitriol to pull out the undigested carrot?

They wouldn't have had to go through so much "vitriol" if they had listened to us in the "fake" open Beta. A lot of the issues that we raised there were raised here after the "update" was forced on the unsuspecting public. The "fake" open Beta is just a waste of time... I'm going on a dueling rampage there until I finally get bored with it and quit.

As for all the "venting", "complaining", "whining" or whatever you wish to call it... If those who were doing all the "venting" didn't bother and just left because they knew they would be ignored anyways... How many people would still be in the game?
:tumble:

 

[DeletedUser]

As for all the "venting", "complaining", "whining" or whatever you wish to call it... If those who were doing all the "venting" didn't bother and just left because they knew they would be ignored anyways... How many people would still be in the game?
:tumble:

about 20 maybe 25

 

[DeletedUser32882]

:laugh:Just imagine Rebow and Elmyr when everyone will leave.They alone on the forum talking to each other:
''Hmmmm...prabably all those trolls were right in the end.Maybe V.2 was not a good upgrade after all.''
Then out of the blue comes Hellstromm:
''If u don't like it go and test it on Beta and give feedback to Inno's dev''

 

[DeletedUser16008]

Again... Those who are in the "fake" open Beta have given a lot of constructive feedback... They took the time to make detailed suggestions... It was ignored. But apparently we aren't good enough for the "real" Beta... We're all ... So no wonder we were ignored.

Told you beta was just another revenue stream and little else.

 

[DeletedUser]

Geez, just a little annoyed when people twist my words to satisfy their trolling antics.

The asshat comment was posed by another poster who made a comment about beta filled with asshats or something similar. I was addressing that comment, I was not labeling everyone in the open beta. Nonetheless there are indeed a lot of people in beta that are not beta testing, not contributing, and instead trolling. Helenback, I am not sure what you or others deem contributing, what you or others deem posing their opinions, what you or others are doing in the open beta, therefore I cannot state whether you are one of the contributors or one of the peeps cheerleading for the trolls. As it is, if you are seriously contributing, not griping or doomsaying, then you'll be asked to help in some greater way. If you feel you can do so, above and beyond your participation in the open beta, then volunteer, contact someone in the beta staff.

Now, from a developer and game designer perspective, this particular thread is an example of what is deemed not contributive. Of the 900+ posts in this thread, there are probably 11 posts that would have merit in the eyes of devs/designers. But no sound-minded developer would read 890+ vitriolic posts just to find 11 posts with some merit. Indeed, no lead developer would let his team read this crap. It's just one long effort to demonize & demoralize the developers & game designers, it's NOT an effort to help them.

I said it many times before, and I find myself saying it again --- the means to pose your concerns is to present them in a respectful & constructive fashion. The "entire" proposal section here in the forums receives less attention than this "one" thread. Bug reporting is at an all-time low, as demonstrated by the griping instead of reporting in the bugs forum section, and the beta is grossly undermanned and underappreciated, as demonstrated by comments like Victor's above.

Well-presented proposals "are" sent to the developers. Well-documented bugs "are" fixed. Well-intentioned beta testers "are" heard.

Trolls? Well, they're given a sandbox to play in, like this thread.

So, if you don't want to be thought of as a troll, if you are "serious" about wanting to help, if you really "do" care about this game and want to improve upon it, then the first thing I suggest is --- get out of the sandbox.


And my last comment: Although I am not part of The West team, am in fact working on a different Inno project, I'm nonetheless willing to help. If you have valid suggestions and/or recommendations, send me a PM. Do not send me crap or trolling comments. Send me reasoned insights. If you want to help me to help this community's voice, send me a PM with your skills, motivations, or qualifications. Perhaps together, outside of the sandbox, we can put something together to present to the developers.

This is my last post in this thread.

 

[DeletedUser34464]

I usually find Hellstromm's posts well reasoned, but I don't see how these latest posts are anything but 'trolling' from the other side. I'm in the other game you're involved in, and the way the development community there interacts with the gaming community is night and day. In game notices- in English no less - for any game updates no matter how small. And they actually work when implemented.

You say bug notifications are down (by the way, how do you know that if you're not involved over here?)- Should I really have to constantly be putting in "You're using German again on the English server"? Putting the problems on the gaming community is ludicrous - this is lazy work, and if development team is actually proud of the work they've done you'd think they'd actually seek some interaction.

In one of you posts you mentioned "there are some staffing issues". Solve them! That's not an excuse you give to your customers- in any business. This kind of thing is not localized to inno- too often gaming industry forgets- they are the business, we're the customers. Just because it's called a 'game' and we're 'gamers' excuse you from following good business practices. Your in house problems have no meaning to us, the same way they don't in the brick and mortar world.

As for using the Ideas & Brainfarts section- why? I've tried. Anything to do with V2.0, no matter how constructive of a direction it's going, usually gets shut down with a "we're not going to change, so don't bother talking about it". It's called Brainfarts- sometimes an idea has to bounce thru a few heads to get to an idea that actually is acceptable for submission.

Now not to say some good hasn't come out of that section, it has---from tw-db. The section should be called "tw-db please help us!"

EDIT: I almost forgot- they reason all this is crammed into one thread with 900+ posts? Because virtually every other thread that got started in Saloon that has anything to do with V2.0 was getting shut down with a "there's already somewhere to talk about this". You want us to discuss individual ideas individually, you have to actually let us DO that.

 

[DeletedUser]

Okay, second to last thread.

Instead of trying to reverse-label me the troll, take me up on my offer of assist.

Spun, this thread was hijacked. Read the first 20 or so posts. It was hijacked and has been a trollfest ever since. In this thread, anyone who points out the positive aspects of the game, or compliments the devs, or praises the company, are ridiculed and jeered at. Even Elmyr got flak for saying positive things. He was jeered and labeled a company man, a bootlicker, an Innogames lackey --- something I can assure you he is not. No, I pointed out what is obvious to someone looking in from the outside, someone who does not participate in such trollfests but has had ample experience identifying it and addressing it in the past.

On another point, my staffing comment wasn't in reference to this community (eyes Victor w/reproach). Now, I said I wasn't paying attention to the proposals process here or at other TW forums, not that I wasn't paying attention to the actual proposals or bug reports. I visit these forums many times a day, almost every day, and have been doing so for many years. In addition, I pay attention to the inner workings at Innogames' and at the activities of the developers in this and other projects.

So while this is no longer my project, I still participate, still very much care about the players, the game, and the people who work on it, unlike the vast majority of trash talkers in this and other v2 threads you've been participating in. Seriously, how can some here claim to care when they're encouraging others to "quit en masse" and namecalling the people who made the game that most of you play, and have played, for free?

And yes, trollfest discussions of v2 don't have to be in a hundred different places. Keep it here. You have a proposal, present it as a proposal in the Proposals section, You have an idea for v2, present it in the Ideas & Brainfarts section. If you encounter a bug, report it in the Bugs section. If you have a question, ask in the Questions section. Unfortunately, some people who have been participating in this thread have been hijacking other v2 threads. An idea for v2 is posed, it gets trolled until it is untenable. Etc.

Spun Carny, unfortunately there's a bit of a culture here at The West's forums that you're not privy to. A culture of trolling. It has been going on since before I entered this community 5 years ago and many of the same peeps who encouraged mass exoduses, who took sport at insulting the devs for the past 5 years, are still here and participated in this thread.

What I'm saying is, it doesn't matter the circumstance, there are people in this and other TW communities who not only encourage, but thrive on negativism, on Inno-bashing. They'll run with any opportunity and make sport of it, claim it's the end of The West, or the end of Innogames, and cheer on others who pose similar sentiments. They quit a thousand times, deleted a thousand characters, and yet... they still have thier original level 120 soldiers.

That is the cold, hard truth. They harm the community by encouraging other community members to express themselves via unproductive, even destructive, means whilst chuckling at the "change" they impose. Destructive change, not productive change, but change nonetheless and thus they feel empowered by their successes and continue with their antics, their hatefests.

Spun, I worked with Innogames in the past and am contracted on a different project with them now. The very same project you praised. I'm telling you how "positive change" can be done, how it should be done, how Innogames listens, and how to encourage the changes you and other well-intentioned participants want.

This --- what's going on here --- is not it.

So, once again, pose reasoned proposals in the Proposals section, pose reasoned ideas in the Ideas section (with the intent of working to a proposal from a discussion about your idea), report bugs in the Bugs section, ask questions in the Questions section, and if someone starts derailing the thread, starts trashing or trolling, report them immediately. Because, let's face it, trolling is a disease of the community and the only cure is due diligence.

And if that is not something you're willing to put up with, then take me up on my earlier offer of assist and let's cut the crap.

That's it, absolutely final post in this thread. Off to check my PMs.