Uganda: 'Anti-Homosexuality' Bill

nashy19

Nashy (as himself)
RADICAL RIGHT -- PASTOR RICK WARREN REFUSES TO CONDEMN UGANDAN LAW MAKING HOMOSEXUAL ACTS PUNISHABLE BY DEATH:
The Ugandan parliament is currently considering an "Anti-Homosexuality Bill," under which any person "convicted of gay sex is liable to life imprisonment." If that person is HIV positive or has sex with a minor or a person with a disability, she or she would be guilty of "aggravated homosexuality" and face the death penalty. The bill also proposes up to three years of imprisonment for anyone who "fails to report within 24 hours the identities of everyone they know who is lesbian, gay, bisexual, or transgender, or who supports human rights for people who are." There are approximately 500,000 gay men and women living in Uganda. The author of the bill is Ugandan Parliamentarian David Bahati, who organizes the Ugandan National Prayer Breakfast and has been embraced by the far right in the United States. Journalist Jeff Sharlet, who has chronicled the secretive international Christian organization known as "The Family," says Bahati is "a core member" of the group, which has links to prominent U.S. politicians. Pastor Rick Warren -- whom President Obama controversially chose to deliver the invocation at his inauguration -- is now refusing to condemn Bahati's bill, which has been endorsed by Ugandan pastor Martin Ssempa. Ssempa has been welcomed by Warren's family and made appearances at his church. Newsweek reports that although Warren has distanced himself from Ssempa's views, she won't come out against the Anti-Homosexuality Bill. "t is not my personal calling as a pastor in America to comment or interfere in the political process of other nations," said Warren. Both UK Prime Minister Gordon Brown and Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper have publicly condemned the Ugandan bill. Yesterday, on the eve of World AIDS Day, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton "made the strongest statement yet by an administration official that the United States will not tolerate efforts to criminalize homosexuality among countries that receive U.S. funding to combat HIV/AIDS."


http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2009/10/...hreatens-liberties-and-human-rights-defenders
http://idahomophobia.org/wp/?p=1630&lang=en
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/africa/article6935558.ece

I've got nothing useful to add but it's not getting a lot attention, it's topical too.
 

DeletedUser11019

WARNING
this next part may be offensive to some and to the young
WARNING

first i would have to state a few off topic ideas that would enlighten you on a few new ideas that could resemble "the on topic reasoning".
without reading wiki's marvellous way of sugar couting things lemme explain things in africa(where i am currently living)
this may sound racist gay bashing or other.

africa is crude,they have cultures that do things that you would never even believe,,facial scaring,,removing of certain body parts eating body parts,,cannibalism,,very questionable rituals and other,
they used to live in tribal fashion and manor,,now with western ideas and weapons ,they have become grossly egotistical.
meaning,,the slightest bit of power and money has drivel them mad,,and they are a fiery nation,,lots of love and sparks of hate and war.
this can be said in any and every direction,,

when you talk about uganda,,your are aslo talking about south africa,,reason is that its all family connected,,power connected and other,,
eg,,Zimbabwe,,close to south africa,,yet one of our former"south african presidents has condemned the slaughter of the white farmers(10,000)
many of the "in"powerd also now own diamond mines,water ways,train routes ,,and other facilities all through africa,,the weapons going to any
and every african counrty must come via south africa,,its the hub of "all distribution" and the root of the problem(hey morty:)

what i have explained there is the mind set,the connection between all the african states and countries,the power sharing and other,
and remember "mandela free'd the black people of africa(and he's south african)


so if any laws are to be made implemented ,then it would be spoken and directed by south africa(remember this is about uganda)


further detail about the subject at hand.
in south africa,,they have now "gangs" of youths that roam the street,,hunting down lesbians gay homasexulkas(and some ritual od act is performed)
they call it a curing(rape)
this has sprung up in many great cities here,,with little or nothing done.
within tribal areas.. there are ladies or woman who may not or cannot wera "pants" jeans and other, due to culture.
within the prisons,,there is a gang that promote all of the above and other hanous crimes,
lemme add a few

http://www.capeargus.co.za/index.php?fSectionId=49&fArticleId=281889 not sugar coat.WARNING!!!

so on one hand you have people saying no towards these things,,and on the other hand people actually enforcing the subject.


and back on uganda.
the guys have had enough reall,, enough of all the horrers in there country,,and there way of getting strict and sorting things out is not working and only agrivating the subject at hand.
(reminder.power ego?)
when they are told that the bill is too harsh by western standards,,they erupt in real african manor....making things worse.

reminder.(your talking about someone who does not even have a secondary education i hope you know,like most african leaders)

one of my best friends is from DRC,and he is a refugee,,he cannot go back to his country in fear of his life, (he wrote a song that is aired every day on the opposition parties news broadcast)
there for makes him criminal even thinking out side the box or even agains the rule of the president,,the same one that would supply zimbab with weapons.
and on other side,

and on the gay sexuality,,i have a very many odd friends,,lesbian,gay,prison inmates,gangers farmers,,bikers and the whole nine yards,
people have been taking this "gay thing to sternly,,the more you make a topic about it,,the more people think about it(and i dont really want to,if you catch my drift)bleh:p
and scientific,,let them marry,,but no kids,,so in the end of the day,,that so called gay gen can be wiped out due to natural selection and it not being passed on(sexist huh:)

my biz is making dreams...this Uganda guy is all about money and anger,,the flesh and other.
pluss i kinda remember them being poor,,,now they loaded with weapons...hmmm
just because your western or been to school,or watch the news ,do you even try to think that that you know africa..
its madness and war here,,do not promote your idealist things here,,didnt work in Australia,nor the indians,,,
,,,this may sound and is,,very racist,,,but this country(s) ruled by a very select few.
and they not very nice if i may add.
then you get these little feuds and silly arguments,,,

i have spoken !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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nashy19

Nashy (as himself)
and scientific,,let them marry,,but no kids,,so in the end of the day,,that so called gay gen can be wiped out due to natural selection and it not being passed on(sexist huh:)
It doesn't work like that, gay couples don't give birth to gay children :blink:
Since they adopt their children they are not affected by natural selection.

just because your western or been to school,or watch the news ,do you even try to think that that you know africa..
its madness and war here,,do not promote your idealist things here,,didnt work in Australia,nor the indians,,,
,,,this may sound and is,,very racist,,,but this country(s) ruled by a very select few.
and they not very nice if i may add.
then you get these little feuds and silly arguments,,,
I don't know the details of the specifics but nothing you wrote is surprising or new to me, I'm fairly average, maybe it is you that doesn't understand the opposite culture.

About racism; racism is any discrimination against another race (as in skin colour not actual race) some discrimination is justifiable, ignore that some words are considered taboo and just be rational. If you are called on it argue the case. Saying that a country is ruled by an elite few has nothing to do with racism.
 

DeletedUser

As a Christian I am actually appauled by this law. I believe and teach as a minister they we are to hate the sin but love the sinner. And that goes for a wide range of what would be considered as sin in Christianity. And in the Christian belief that Jesus offered forgiveness for all sin. Not just for the one's that aren't really not that bad.
Jesus taught that if we follow the rule but fall short on one part we are guilty of breaking the whole rule. (BTW I tried to simplify this for you all). He taught this not because he wanted to point out our faults, but to show that we all need forgiveness.
I personally thank GOD I do live in America.
 

DeletedUser

Before you think of Uganda or Africans as barbaric, uncivilized, ignorant, intolerant ... and think that Western Civilization or America are not ...

http://www.glapn.org/sodomylaws/usa/usa.htm

Some states in the US had Sodomy laws which pretty much banned any gay sex among men. These were over-turned in 2003, thats not too long ago.

Some still try to prevent it.
 

DeletedUser

Uganda is obviously going back to dark times I hoped were long gone. But they are of course not alone. European Union member Lithuania is about to pass a law, criminalizing "homosexual propaganda". Although it might be far from Uganda's law it is still a branch on the same tree. It's also quite possible contrary to several EU-legislations and will probably be tried in several courts.

Also, referring to homosexuality as a "sin" (no matter the forgiving terms), is of course another branch of that very tree, and one of the thickest too. The laws about to be passed in both Uganda and Lithuania would not be there without it.

Homo and bi-sexuality are not "sins". They are basic human (and animal) traits, as natural as anything else we do. Several cultures in history have promoted them, and others have oppressed them. But they are still around, no matter what.
 

DeletedUser11019

well i have to agree with betsy,,seeing as she was the only one to realize the errors and political indirectness of my bit.

Africa..is barbaric.
has been for some time now too,

lets go back a bit,,and grab a few more countries into the debate,,American natives, Africans, Haiti, Brazilian tribes,,they all have cannibalistic pasts.
all countries from different continents with the same ideas beliefs and custom's.
a universal thing.

death penalty in Africa was not practices a few hundred years ago,
lemme explain
African tribes had elders and ancestors(ancestors are spirits)
the elders ruled the tribes,,like chiefs or a judge,,they were respected and good, there own idea of a court or trial.
if some one was caught stealing a cow,,they would tie him to a tree for a day as punishment ,not death.

but now with the modern world .desks,papers sectaries 4 litres o coffee bad managers,and uncontrollable people ,
this Ugandan made a bad outburst, wars all over the place, poverty ,death famine, money greed and other can do that,,anger can make anyone make bad judgement .

150 years ago,,africa didnt even have wars(more competition style)
now they all guns and ammo,,hate for the white man,,morning the past ..blah blah.

but then,,most European countries make the same mistakes all the time and still dont know what to do,,and besides,,i blame the west for all the wrong in Africa in the last 60 years.(but thats my personal opinion)

facts..underpants wearing on head and death has been part o history.
 

DeletedUser

My opinion is, simply, if you want to be gay, that's just fine. Don't discriminate against homosexuals, don't promote it.
However, homosexuality is not right. Let's think about it: in nature, sex feels good because the brain's reward system is hardwire to reward you for reproducing, and therefore ensuring the survival of your species. However, if you are gay, then there is no reward for reproduction, and therefore your species will die out. Therefore, homosexuality must be a mental problem.

Of course, however, discrimination against homosexuals has been imprinted in African and Arabic culture for centuries (at least).
 

DeletedUser

However, homosexuality is not right. Let's think about it: in nature, sex feels good because the brain's reward system is hardwire to reward you for reproducing, and therefore ensuring the survival of your species. However, if you are gay, then there is no reward for reproduction, and therefore your species will die out. Therefore, homosexuality must be a mental problem.

I love the whole "against nature" argument.

Anyway...by this argument, people incapable of having children, for whatever reason, are as bad as homosexuals...
 

DeletedUser

Of course, however, discrimination against homosexuals has been imprinted in African and Arabic culture for centuries (at least).
Ignoring the bulk of your ridiculous ramble, i'm just going to address this one:

Do you know anything --- ANYTHING --- about African or Arabic cultures to make this sweeping statement? No, you don't. You're barely out of diapers and you come off with these kinds of off-the-cuff "know it all" comments. You talk about credibility? Wake up dude, you have none and you're not going to gain any by pulling crap out of your ass.

The bill was birthed due to Western/European sexual exploitation of children in the region and evangelists poisoning the mindset of otherwise ignorant natives. It is situational and embedded, not cultural.
 

DeletedUser

Ignoring the bulk of your ridiculous ramble, i'm just going to address this one:

Do you know anything --- ANYTHING --- about African or Arabic cultures to make this sweeping statement? No, you don't. You're barely out of diapers and you come off with these kinds of off-the-cuff "know it all" comments. You talk about credibility? Wake up dude, you have none and you're not going to gain any by pulling crap out of your ass.

The bill was birthed due to Western/European sexual exploitation of children in the region and evangelists poisoning the mindset of otherwise ignorant natives. It is situational and embedded, not cultural.

Hmmmm. Doesn't it say something about killing gays in the Qur'an? (I don't think Angola is Muslim, so I'll have to look into that)

Now, I do give you the point that I didn't read the bill. I will. Also, I do have a large ego.

In that case, I guess it is because I am much smarter than my classmates (who couldn't tell you where the USA is on a map), and once I'd settled into this forum, I viewed you all as my equals, rather than elders.
 

DeletedUser

I love the whole "against nature" argument.

Anyway...by this argument, people incapable of having children, for whatever reason, are as bad as homosexuals...

People incapable of having children are incapable because they have a physical problem. Homosexuals have a mental problem. I personally believe that gays should be able to do what they want, but you shouldn't encourage it. However, I will start my own thread about it. (homosexuality in the Western World)
 

DeletedUser

Ah, I should have worded it differently.

Homosexuals don't have a true mental problem, but they do have something messing with their natural instincts.

Though, granted, I once heard in a documentary on Feudal Japan that many of the samurai were gay, so they specifically married to women just for the purpose of reproduction....
 

DeletedUser

Homosexuals don't have a true mental problem, but they do have something messing with their natural instincts.
Let me ask you this simple question Thomas. Do you think there's something mentally wrong with people who believe in deities, in imaginary beings? Do you think it's a mental problem, a physical problem?

Do you think masturbation is messing with your natural instincts? Because, you know, you're wasting all that sperm. Do you think we shouldn't wear condoms, because we're interfering with our natural instincts to reproduce? Do you think there's something "mentally wrong" with with a woman kissing a woman? Is there something mentally wrong with people who want to have sex with someone of the opposite sex as soon as they are able to reproduce? At what point do you differentiate mental disorder from social acceptance?

And last, where's the evidence to substantiate your allegations, or your credentials for which you base your expertise on these subjects?
 

DeletedUser

Thomas Franklin,
For starters, the proposed bill we are talking about is from Uganda, not Angola. Uganda is also on of the most profoundly Christian countries in Africa.

The culture that has had discrimination against homosexuals imprinted for centuries is the Christian one, from where Islam is directly ascended. The bible is the holy book that has the parts about killing gays.

As far as homosexuality being "against nature" goes, that is a ridiculous statement, since it is clearly a part of human nature and animals also have homosexual relations. Sexuality is not just a form of reproduction, it is much more complicated than that and serves many purposes. Obviously sexual pleasure and intimacy (and "love") can be experienced just as much between man-man, woman-woman as woman-man.

Pre-Christian Europe had a whole other view on homo- and bisexuality. The most flagrant example would be the warrior state of Sparta, where male homosexuality was institutionalized. Look it up, why don't you.
 
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Diggo11

Well-Known Member
People incapable of having children are incapable because they have a physical problem. Homosexuals have a mental problem.
Yes homosexuality is a "mental inconsistency". But is it a problem? Does homosexuality harm themselves or anyone around them any more than heterosexuality?
 
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